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EUIV - Development Diary - 11th of February 2020

Hello! So today I will be talking about two smaller sized features coming with the expansion that will be accompanying the 1.30 Patch.

As part of our improvements to the Catholic faith, which we will revisit in a later dev diary, we want to give the player a carrot for keeping their brethren alive. So with that in mind for all religions that can use Defenders of the Faith mechanic, they are getting a bit of an uplift to emphasise that you defend a faith, not only something you claim to be.

upload_2020-2-11_9-23-6.png


So what we’ve done is that we gave the Defender of the Faith 5 tiers that are dependent upon how many nations are following that faith. The more you are defending the more your title as the faith’s defender has as worth to the people and your neighbours. At the highest tier the entire faith gets a bonus together.

upload_2020-2-11_9-22-51.png

The 5 Tiers available to the Defender of the Faith.

Tier 1 - 1 to 4 Countries
  • +1 Missionaries
  • -10% Missionary Maintenance Cost
Tier 2 - 5 to 9 Countries
  • +1 Missionaries
  • -10% Missionary Maintenance Cost
  • +5% Land Morale
  • +5% Naval Morale
  • +1 Prestige
Tier 3 - 10 to 19 Countries
  • +1 Missionaries
  • -10% Missionary Maintenance Cost
  • +5% Land Morale
  • +5% Naval Morale
  • +1 Prestige
  • -0.03 War Exhaustion
Tier 4 - 20 to 49 Countries
  • +1 Missionaries
  • -10% Missionary Maintenance Cost
  • +5% Land Morale
  • +5% Naval Morale
  • +1 Prestige
  • -0.03 War Exhaustion
  • +20% Manpower in True Faith Provinces
Tier 5 - 50+ Countries
  • +1 Missionaries
  • -10% Missionary Maintenance Cost
  • +5% Land Morale
  • +5% Naval Morale
  • +1 Prestige
  • -0.03 War Exhaustion
  • +20% Manpower in True Faith Provinces
  • -20% Missionary Maintenance Cost on all members of that Faith, including DotF.
Besides the mechanical changes we’ve also given the Defender of the Faith more flavour by giving the feature a bunch of unique events and content that can appear for whoever that claims the title.

The second feature of today is a little thing that just lets you get on with your business a bit faster by not having to sit and wait for rebels to pop so you can deal with them immediately.

upload_2020-2-11_9-22-20.png


It requires the faction to have already reached a progression of 50% before this option can be picked and when done it will cause those rebels to appear 50% stronger than they would have usually. You can also not use this feature at war so you can not rebel bomb your opponents with it.

Next Development Diary coming next week will be covering one feature that is part of the expansion but also free quality of life features. The focus of the features will be to make management of your empire easier and more bearable.
 
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But why is a super nation of 1 billion people defending its faith wich only itself follows less relevant than 1 nation of 3000 people defending a faith 100 other countrys with only 3000 people follow.
 
Country number-based tiers for DotF bonuses don’t make sense. DotFs should all start at 1 or even at 0 and slowly work their way up by actually doing their job by accepting CtAs from coreligionists, spreading religion, and the such. In this way you get more opportunities to boost your DotF ranks thus taking in account country number indirectly because more coreligionists, more CtAs, more funding requests, more people to convert with, more possible events, and so on.

But introducing flatly delineated tiers according to arbitrary numbers of countries, development, provinces, what-have-you, is not the way.
 
Maybe the Defender of the Faith should get some small temporary bonus for freeing true faith provinces from wrong religion oppressors? That would actually be defending after all.

Love the provoke rebellion feature. How often did I have an army sitting for years next to a province with 90% revolt risk...
 
Pretty please could defender of the faith be expanded to religions outside of the Christian and Muslim religious groups? It would be so fun to play for instance as a Fetishist/Mayan/Aztec/etc nation desperately trying to prevent foreign religions from spreading into native lands. Or maybe perhaps as a religiously inclined Indian Hindu power hoping to "reconquista".
I'm just curious as to why it is only restricted to these groups.
 
Vaximillian said:
Country number-based tiers for DotF bonuses don’t make sense. DotFs should all start at 1 or even at 0 and slowly work their way up by actually doing their job by accepting CtAs from coreligionists, spreading religion, and the such. In this way you get more opportunities to boost your DotF ranks thus taking in account country number indirectly because more coreligionists, more CtAs, more funding requests, more people to convert with, more possible events, and so on.

But introducing flatly delineated tiers according to arbitrary numbers of countries, development, provinces, what-have-you, is not the way.
Click to expand...
A reputation like system sounds fun. But not a simple calculation. Which is what it looks they are going for.


Maxwell Tornado said:
I swear to Christ I remember EU4 having a provoke rebels feature a couple years ago. Am I just going mad?
Click to expand...

Yes.
 
durbal said:
None of this matters. Why would I keep 50 little OPMs around so that I can get some negligible morale and pointless conversion cost modifier?

And using either development or province count is just plain problematic. The point is to be the Defender of the Faith, not some guy who wants bonuses because his religion just happens to be well-proliferated.
Click to expand...

Probably to sit on them until last for 80% cost reduction (with religious) in one faith runs, and otherwise not at all.
 
Newbie here! I am starting to understand what all you guys are talking about. That makes me so happy. Man, people were not kidding at all about this game!

In my very limited knowledge and experience, however, I am excited for these changes considering that I became Defender of the Faith in my Ottoman game. So, I would agree that one should really demonstrate how much of a defender you are, and then get those extra benefits as well. Defender of the Faith, historically is my understanding, was a title and duly powers given in the Catholic religion to certain Scottish, British Kings and others by various popes. Muslims have a similar concept ingrained in their zeal to defend their faith against infidels, and that is why I didn't find it particular that the Ottomans should be able to get it in the game. That is why I think it should remain exclusive to very few religions and not all. It makes it somewhat historically accurate.

A plus to becoming Defender of the Faith, I want to believe, is cutting wars short with enemies of your religion. I think I saw that it raises the opinion of countries with your religion. On Sunday, I was about to see all my hard-earned progress go to waste and witness my empire being dismantled by hasty decisions. Let's just say that I know now that one should never wing it when it comes to going to war without determining the exact size of your enemy's, their allies' armies and who exactly they are. I was literally about to sob violently and give up! I am glad I lingered, and soon after becoming the defender, my enemy's allies, one by one, started to peace out which gave me time to increase the size of my army, retake my provinces and then go on the offensive again.

What's funny and sweet is that I was about to start playing just now and noticed that I had gotten the Defender of the Faith Achievement; I didn't know it was an achievement. Then pressed start and I remembered it is Tuesday, and surprise, surprise, the Launcher Screen showed that the Dev Diary today is about changes to Defenders of the Faith. This shows the world is as it should be, at least my world, and at least this moment in time.

By the way, I was literally scared to death of revolts and rebels popping up; a few times it wasn't pretty, but I also gladly discovered on the same game that they can be a divinely-sent gift as of course all of you know and people have acknowledged it here. 10K rebels started killing many of my enemies or weakening them while I reinforced my army and that helped so much. I was really sad to send them to a better life later on, but man, they were key. So, I can understand why the future patch won't let you rebel bomb during war and I would agree that it shouldn't be something you can abuse during peace time as well. Loving the game so far!
 
I dunno, I feel like rebels need to have more of an impact when they spawn.

Where did they come from? I don't lose any manpower. I don't lose any development. I just killed 21k people from SOMEWHERE in my country, but I'm unsure where.

I feel like rebels need a rework more than any system in the game.
 
Maybe is just a placehorder for work in progress, but I see you are using the flag of Sicily for Two Sicilies. It is a 19th century state, born from the desire to melt together the crowns of Naples and Sicily to build up a centralized government, that is known with a clear flag (excluding the pan-italian ones):

405px-Flag_of_the_Kingdom_of_the_Two_Sicilies_%281816%29.svg.png
 
Mindel said:
Is counting the number of countries the right way to measure success for defender of the faith? This seems to punish defenders if large numbers of small countries start eating each other and consolidate into larger powers. But this phenomenon doesn't seem to have much to do with religion, really.

Maybe a better way to measure would be total development or number of provinces in that faith.



Addendum

Here is an idea: how about measuring defenders of the faith by actual job performance? That is, making defenders earn credit by actually defending fellow nations from infidels.

Every new defender starts at level 1, and earns points each time it answers a defender call to arms and successfully defends. It loses some credit if the war is lost, and it loses a lot if it either declines the call or renders "unsatisfactory condottieri performance". When the defender reaches a certain number of points, it gets promoted (or demoted).

How much each war is worth depends on how big the infidel opponents are. If you keep fighting off Ottomans on behalf of others, you deserve a prize for it.
Click to expand...
Totally agree, becoming the Defender of the Faith should not be the same as being the Policeman of Europe, Africa, Asia or the Americas
 
When are we going to be able to send out our missionaries to non-subject countries like condottieri? I think that'd be cool... or maybe as defender of the faith you can convert non-subject countries but it'll still cost you missionary maintenance. Missionaries are still just too useless right now in my opinion.
 
Groogy said:
It requires the faction to have already reached a progression of 50% before this option can be picked and when done it will cause those rebels to appear 50% stronger than they would have usually. You can also not use this feature at war so you can not rebel bomb your opponents with it.
Click to expand...

Why are the rebels hostile to the enemy of the host nation they are rebelling against? Could there be an option to add the separatists to your "temporary allies" whose demands you can enforce in peace?
 
Groogy said:
Together with the new stuff we've added though it's a "solvable" problem ;)
Click to expand...

I think you mean the new government reform for monastic orders allowing them to force religion on most nations, maybe except big empires. I still feel that religions that are small or have few countries following it will be at a big disadvantage. A better mechanic would be to monitor the overall progression of the religion by province count (not dev, to take in account expansion and not just peaceful increase of dev). Regularly waging crusades/jihads. Maybe the number of countries should also count, but it should not be the main criteria. It should be a base value to which modifiers are added based on the actions of the current DoTF. I would say that the tier should be the reflection of religious fervor caused by actions in an x amount of time that just passed. Maybe 30 years or maybe by era with a certain percentage being carried over. This will stimulate perpetual action on the religious front. This will also make the reformation be far more aggressive because of the quick gain in province count over a short period of time and maybe custom events could also be added.

The system presented in the current dev diary is more like a static bonus that will inevitably fade without much natural stuff that you can do to prevent it from fading. To utilize the bonus you are incentivized to go monastic order to be able to force religion on more countries, release random OPMs in your territory that will just sit there safe within your borders just to keep the score high, or just be Catholic or Sunni which by itself will incentivize flipping into those religions on mass. Something along the line that I just mentioned will offer a whole alive system.

Small suggestion. A mechanic to support pretenders of your religion could be fun, with a potential of making the country switch religions, and if you add the potential to intervene in those wars on the defending side, oooooh... THAT WOULD BE AWESOME!!!
 
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Maybe on lvl 5 DoF allow DoF to convert provinces in same faith countries, that'd be sth worth getting as DoF as some countries can have problems converting large dev prov later on if they take bad ideas.
 
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