Europa Universalis IV - Development Diary 14th of June 2022

[Militantti Talitintti]

Any info on performance improvements?

 

[Sean1699]

Switzerland needs mountain expansion privilege

@Ogele I second this one! It would really make sense for Switzerland imo. Nice thinking @Camel Turkish Blend

 

[assasindroid-1]

IMO you should always be able to revoke privileges, but it would come with a stab hit and spawn rebels if influence is higher than loyalty.

I think this would be more realistic in a perfect world, but since as a country grows stronger it is a lot easier to deal with rebellions, this could also drastically fail, and make revoking privilege's above influence trivial. Maybe if it put you in a disaster or something, but estates were so central to a country at this time that I think its reasonable to make it difficult to revoke, like it is now

 

[Danskjävel]

I don't see the problem with having some obscure event with very specific conditions, that AI would never fulfill, spawn asatro in ONE of the northern most Scandinavian pronvinces in the mountains where some pocket of asatro might have survived into the 12 or 13th century. If the AI had like 1/500 chance to spawn it, you would literally never see an actual norse scandinavian country, but players had the opportunity.

Doesn't take away from those who don't want it, but let's other meme around a bit

 

[assasindroid-1]

I hope non-standard estates were taken into consideration while adding these new government reforms. It would be disappointing if Indian nations couldn't select most of these because they have the Vaisyas/Jains replacing Burghers and Rajputs/Marathas replacing Nobility.

They showed one with the Brahamins, and were Dai Viet when they screen capped another, so it seems like they at least looked at non-European countries when making it, so I assume, but obviously can't be 100% until it comes out or we see more

 

[ArtFart]

Nope.

Thanks for the decisive reply!

 

[joaofrancisco25]

The mountain expansion privilege got me thinking a bit.

All the dev modifiers, and this one especially, are meant to represent the efforts of urbanization and infrastructure of the provinces. Why not change the dev button to a dev "meter" or "bar" that fills gradually? That way we could better perceive effects of privileges like this one right here, not depending on the AI or ourselves to click a button

I think it would get more organic, and the game already treats dev like this for concentrate development and raze mechanics, so I don't think it is a stretch.

 

[Iferius]

I like the idea that some reforms are tied in with absolutism, but I agree that picking anything that reduces max absolutism is not going to be popular.

Could the reform bonuses instead be inversely related to absolutism? So 0 benefit at 100 absolutism and full benefit at 0? That way, you can make fun reforms that may offer a non-absolutist or a hybrid playstyle. This makes sense, as absolute states gutted the power of all political systems before abolishing systems altogether. And that is exactly what a player will do as his absolutism rises.

Additionally, you could add an event that lets you switch a non-absolutist reform for a different currency (monarch power, manpower, cash).

 

[Gort911]

People who play this game clearly want the ability to convert to norse religion. You already allow other dead religions to be reformed, so I fail to understand why you are so against the idea. Give your fanbase what they want. Also the nerf to Carolean infantry just made them not worth it. I'm not giving up 33% of my force pool for 10% shock damage and -15% morale damage received. Insane.

 

[Atgeir]

Big, huge important question:

Is it now Agder, rather than Stavanger, that gets renamed to Christiansand if Denmark inherits Norway? That has always irked me, because the city of Christiansand is pretty much smack in the middle of the Agder coast, and Stavanger itself being a fairly important city in the Norwegian southwest.

Other than that, I really like these missions, and am super glad there is no path for Norway to flip to Norse. The only thing I'd love to see which isn't covered, is the addition of Nidarosdomen as a Great Work in Trøndelag. It could even have the same effect as the Stave Church and replace it, if need be - Nidarosdomen was one of the largest cathedrals in Scandinavia, an important religious seat in the North, and a pilgrimage site for not only Scandinavians, but also parts of Germany and the British Isles. Meanwhile, the Stave Churches were pretty much in disrepair and of no significance during the period, to my knowledge. Don't get me wrong, they're beautiful cultural heritages, but having a Stave Church as a great work and not Nidarosdomen makes about as much sense as making Rome's great work the Roman Forum instead of St. Peter's Basilica.

Yes, the devs should ditch this silly little Stave church and instead add Nidaros Cathedral.

 

[Atgeir]

Thank you for your swift and detailed reply, Ogele.

Regarding what others have said regarding the Norse faith, I must agree the inclusion of it as an option - perhaps via an event or decision - for Norway would allow for greater player choice and not harm the overall experience. The religion already exists and there clearly seems to be a portion of the community which wants it. I also agree it shouldn't be an easy switch but something niche which must be worked for.

When starting a new game there are a few options, like playing or not playing IRONMAN.
How about adding more options so the addicts can have their toy: Activate or not activate Norse faith? Third option, play CK3 instead.
Activate or not activate female generals/leaders?
Same with other weirdo features, like Mamlukean Australia?

However, I hope the devs instead do some quality game testing, so we can have a somewhat bug-free release.

 

[ImTheFBI]

I know this was already somewhat addressed, but I really dislike many of the modifiers added to the government reforms. Many of them just have to do with balancing estates or absolutism, which is probably the least interesting ones to me. Even in the current reforms, max absolutism/yearly absolutism and estate loyalty/influence were the least interesting modifiers to me. Another issue is tying some of these reforms to ideas (Espionage/Aristocratic) while still feeling like weaker reforms.
Tier 3 reforms - I love the new Centralized Bureaucracy, but the estates loyalty is a meh to me.. Regional Council seems kind of interesting, though tacking on the max absolutism feels like a slap in the face. Decentralized feels god awful and definitely needs a complete change from the placeholder here, I don't see why I'd ever take it in this state when Centralized can get me more reduced state governing cost for free after waiting 5 years. Representatives of the Crown also has a cool modifier with Vassalation Acceptance.
Tier 4 - For Buddhists and Hindus it seems interesting, the other two not so much. The general reforms seem less interesting than the current ones...
Tier 5 - Just feels horrible... I always wanted the later tier reforms to feel like strong modifiers that are meaningful in change, but this one gets you nothing really... Balancing estates feels super easy as is, so taking this reform seems like an actual nerf to the country rather than any benefit.
Tier 7 - Other than all the estate/absolutism modifiers here, this is a really interesting tier! Things for goods produced, trade power and mercantilism, and a few powerful modifiers is great. I'd like to not see reforms tied to ideas still, but overall this is one of my favorite tiers now.

I'd like to see the Caroleans get re-buffed somewhat, someone mentioned the manpower recovery speed being a better penalty and I agree. I don't expect them to have many Caroleans, so having them be powerful to represent the powerhouse Sweden was is way more interesting to me as well.

Overall, I really like the Norway changes a lot!

 

[strqfzd911]

I dont get the whole "its too hard to implement" garbage literally all they have to do is copy and paste this:

desc = {
    trigger = { has_country_flag = colony_dead }
    desc = "colony_desc.1"
}
desc = {
    trigger = { has_country_flag = colony_alive }
    desc = "colony_desc.2"
}
immediate = {
    random_list = {
        90 = { set_country_flag = colony_dead } #first option shown
        10 = { set_country_flag = colony_alive } #second option shown
    }
}
option = {
    name = "colony_dead_opt" #1st option shown in DD
    trigger = {
        has_country_flag = colony_dead
    }
    #<generic effects>
}
option = {
    name = "colony_alive_opt" #2nd option shown in DD
    trigger = {
        has_country_flag = colony_alive
    }
    #<generic effects>
}
option = {
    name = "norse_colony_opt"
    trigger = {
        ai = no
        has_country_flag = colony_alive
    }
    change_religion = norse
    #<generic_effects>
}
after = {
    clr_country_flag = colony_alive
    clr_country_flag = colony_dead
}

loc:

l_english:
 colony_desc.1: "Yeah our guys went to greenland and apparently everyone is dead sucks."
 colony_desc.2: "Our dudes have returned from greenland and have found the lost colony etc etc apparently some people there still follow the norse faith maybe we should convert them or something?"
 colony_dead_opt: "yo that sucks"
 colony_alive_opt: "yeah convert em"
 norse_colony_opt: "Convert to norse"

If you don't like it so much then just dont click the option?

If basic stuff like this that takes like 5mins max to type out cant be implemented then I really don't see why I would buy the DLC when modders can just do everything they've shown in these past few DD's and probably 10x better anyways. (They're totally gonna hardcode everything after they see this but whatever lol)

 

[Kapitalisti]

It says frontier in both options. The only drawback about gambling and getting the ‘bad‘ outcome seems to be the initial money spend..

Damn weird, I could have sworn that the pics had different texts when I first saw them. Well I stand corrected and the choice is indeed odd.

 

[currylambchop]

Perhaps Caroleans could Be buffed back but have a downside, like reinforcing slower (similar to banners), and costing more manpower (in the event text it literally says each regiment uses 1200 men) and you can get enough Caroleans to entirely replace normal infantry.

 

[Nis Baggesen]

This looks really cool, but being more of a Denmark player than a Norway player I am of course curious how much these missions affect Denmark's chance of holding on to the Union? And in general I was wondering if there is some way of tracking which missions other nations have completed, similar to how you can look at other nations focus trees in HoI4

 

[Ogele]

@Ogele First, thank you for this new heavy DD.

I had a question: Are any new Tier 1 Government Reforms planed?

Currently, when you are reforming from a Tribal Government to anything else, you will lose the special flavor some TAGs have acquired patches after patches. Those who come immediately to my mind are:
- Tribal Federations (Aq & Qara Qoyunlu, Yas) you can still go for a horde, I know.
- Gond Kingdoms (Central India)
- Polynesian Tribes & Polynesian Kingdoms (Samoa, Tonga and others around)
- Matrilineal System (Nubian TAGs)
- Other tribal reforms added with Origins DLC

Would it be possible to create simples T1 Government Reforms for these TAGs encompassing their past flavor?

No, we will not add new Tier 1 government reforms for 1.34 - at least no new generic ones.

While I don't like to @ devs I didn't see anything about Agder > Christiansand in there @Ogele.

It's been such a gripe for me for so long, and I'll be so sad if it's not fixed in this update. Won't someone think of the poor Christiansanders? I don't think they want their love for rectangular streets to be confused with the fascination with hermetical herring we have up our way!

If @Pavía approves then sure.

I hope non-standard estates were taken into consideration while adding these new government reforms. It would be disappointing if Indian nations couldn't select most of these because they have the Vaisyas/Jains replacing Burghers and Rajputs/Marathas replacing Nobility.

Yes, they have been taken in account too.

I like Decentralized Bureaucracy for playing very wide with lots of territories. Territory has -75% governing cost and with this reform it would have -85% governing cost - that's equal to extra 66% gov capacity if counting only territories. TC has 50% and with reform 40% and with courthouse it's reduced to 15%.

Of course it's weak for states but decentralized suggests you aren't using states. I think there will be situations when it will be useful midgame before townhalls allows to TC everything without using gov capacity


Does refund in Centralized Bureaucracy mean i get admin and reformprogress back or refund is just dev increase? If I get points back I can centralize every state 4 times in 20 years and don't need gov capacity at all

With "refund" I mean you get the admin and reform progress back. Though, this bonus is not set in stone.

Hey @Ogele nice gov. reforms you guys put. Can't wait to try them out. Suggestion, it would be realy cool if you guys would add more unique gov. reforms for EoC that could play into Confucianism or being an EoC. And perhaps more unique Qing missions . As for this DD nice work guys keep up.

The new reforms will focus on all the generic matters first. This means for 1.34 there will be no special reforms for the Emperor of China (or other interesting regions like the HRE or the Middle East). We would like to expand these reforms with future updates though.

Instead of the next Dev Diary being about Scandinavia, it's actually going to be about Pskov. You heard it here first!

How did you know which nation I used to form Scandinavia for the teaser?

Just here to pitch in my two cents about a potential "gold" mine in Sandsvær: Yes, please, and thank you.

Would love for it to be its own province, but as I well know, that's not an option. Still, the change to gold would makes sense given the importance of the mine. The current tax buff I would argue doesn't really do it justice when compared to how important it was, and with just a flat tax modifier there isn't any potential for player-controlled mining expansion. More agency please.

Would also love some kind of trade value buff for Hålogaland, to simulate the importance of the fishing industry, and the export of stockfish.

Note: this will NOT resolve the Bullion Famine - mentioning it here because I think somebody in this thread asked about it.
Regarding Hålogaland I won't make any promises yet as we will have to do some research for this suggestion first.

Again, seeing as Devs have replied, why are the Faroe Islands part of Gaeldom?

Did you honestly not know what they are or what.

Also, about the only tag that could conceivably be Norse would be either Iceland via event or maybe you could have Greenland do it (though I'd prefer them having Inuit culture tbh)

I like the Gaeldom march mission from the new Norwegian content, but not sure about Faroe Islands being part of this.

Orkney and Shetland don't make much sense as part of Gaeldom either

And Iceland too, not shown in the event picture, but the event was also trying to give Iceland away too in the script. The event is not supposed to give the islands away (with the exception of Orkney as the event is a reference to the Sinclair clan after all) and it is fixed now:

@Ogele I second this one! It would really make sense for Switzerland imo. Nice thinking @Camel Turkish Blend

Hmm... maybe

People who play this game clearly want the ability to convert to norse religion. You already allow other dead religions to be reformed, so I fail to understand why you are so against the idea. Give your fanbase what they want. Also the nerf to Carolean infantry just made them not worth it. I'm not giving up 33% of my force pool for 10% shock damage and -15% morale damage received. Insane.

Regarding the Caroleans (and the government reforms for that matter): we are currently rebalancing them anyway.
At the risk of repeating myself: the values you see are NOT final. I will no longer go into any detail regarding the Caroleans or the reforms until next week's dev diary, but be assured that we want to release the reforms and the new units in a balanced yet usable and fun state.

 

[Mindel]

On the topic of Gaeldom, would it be possible to make it formable by the Isles? This seems reasonable given that Gaeldom is the natural tag for a Gaelic Scotland. Also, having a Gaeldom currently formable by no one is not very fun.

 

[Nacrelven]

Regarding Hålogaland and fishing I can as a local confirm that the fishing areas of "Lofoten" are important today and were even more important in the 14th and 15th century. As it is one of the largest seasonal fisheries in the world it has for a thousand years been the most important event on the calender along the Norwegian coast. During these times the fishing stood for the bulk of export from the north and fetched a good price as it was transported to Bergen where the Hansa stood ready to export it to thriving cities in northern Europe. Good catholics ate fish on friday and cod is rich in protein.
The increased fish prices in later parts of 14th century is, if I don't remember incorrectly, the reason the Germans founded the Hanseatic Office in Bergen around 1360. So it must have been fairly important to trade.

In the 16th century there were more competition and in the 17th century demand fell and resulted in harder times in the region due to reduced export. So possibly a modifier to fishing that is lost in 17th century would be historicaly accurate.

PS. Thank you for the Norwegian love <3
PPS. The event Norway-Denmark. Would it be possible with a branching mission here with; "as is now" if you secure a PU over only Denmark. But a mission called "Reversal of the Kalmar Union" if you also have a PU over Sweden at the same time? (Or possibly a followup mission where Norway-Denmark gives PU CB on Sweden?)

 

[Nomiton]

I think you guys really need to remake how you get carolean units, if that is that you get more of them from culture or make it so you get a % of your forcelimit. Last dev diary carolean was fine for one reason, you will never have them in great numbers so they have to be really good. Now you nerf the normal army numbers and make carolean worse. Not forgetting to add on all the bonuses you will have even fewer carolean. As some have pointed out now the mission isn't even worth taking.

People really need to understand that Swedish and Finnish only have 120 dev at start. that dev is spread over around 27 provinces. So if at game start you had carolean, you could only get 12. That is if you don't add the two bonuses, with all the bonus you would get 9 carolean.

Back to the provinces, you would have to use so much mana to make a provinces 20 dev to get one carolean. So at the end you would get 27 units base for deving 27 provinces up to 20. And that is not mentioning having to spend 800 base mil power to get carolean early. So in the end you make us spend 600-800 mil plus the dev it takes to dev provinces up to 20 for around 34 units. If you want to add on the two bonuses for the carolean you would only have around 20 carolean.

Lastly you add on a negative force limit modifier, then shouldn't you give something better in terms of quality in returrn? As stated before the numbers and the quality of carolean atm isn't enough to justify taking this mission. I would go so far as to say the old buffs wasn't good enough for how small of a nr you got. But back then you had overall military buffs that made it worth taking the mission.