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Europa Universalis IV - Development Diary 14th of June 2022

Welcome to our next Development Diary for Europa Universalis IV! Today we dive into the last starting Kingdom in Scandinavia, which has not been covered yet: Norway.

As for Denmark and Sweden, the History of Norway in the Modern Age directly depended on the fate of the Kalmar Union. After the accession of the House of Oldenburg to the Danish throne in 1448, the Danish kings increasingly centralized government, even if a Norwegian Council of State formally governed the country. In fact, Norwegian landed nobles and merchants prospered under this system, as they were effectively the middlemen between the Crown and the commoners. Although some rebellions arose, such as that of Knut Alvsson, the conflicts with the Danish crown were of much less intensity compared to Sweden. This changed with the Reformation, as Frederick I and Christian III's adherence to Protestantism sparked a revolt led by the Norwegian Church. However, it was defeated in the decade of the 1530s, so Denmark and Norway remained Tvillingerigerne (Twin Realms) until 1814.

Although Norway’s history is intertwined with that of Denmark throughout the EU4 time period, we have decided to reflect in the new mission tree for Norway the potential ambitions and challenges it would have faced had it broken free with the end of the Kalmar Union.
norwegian_mission_tree.png
Keep in mind: Norway’s mission tree was created before the mission trees of the Teutonic and Livonian Order. As such, the mission tree for Norway is a lot less “what if” even though they were historically no winner either. With that being said, let’s get a look at the details of the tree.

The missions of Norway are split into three themes: gain independence from Denmark and place your own Monarch on the Danish throne, Colonization and internal missions.

Starting with the independence missions, the mission “Norwegian Allies” can be completed by having two rivals or enemies of Denmark have 100 opinion of Norway. As a reward you can request their support through the following event:
norwegian_independence_event.png

norwegian_independence_event_second_option.png
norwegian_independence_event_third_option.png
norwegian_independence_event_fourth_option.png
norwegian_independence_event_fifth_option.png

Note: Although you are asking Denmark’s rivals/enemies for support in the first three options, you still get a flat reward so the war against Denmark/Sweden will be easier to handle even if the rivals refuse to support you.

Choosing one of the the first three option will of course trigger an event for Denmark’s rivals:
norwegian_independence_event_receiver.png

norwegian_independence_event_help.png

“Liberty for Norway!” will restore the stability loss and get you 30 Legitimacy while “Win Our Independence!” grants you a Restoration of Union cb against Denmark, allowing you to reverse the historical roles of Denmark and Sweden.

With the mission “Norway-Denmark” you no longer require an admin tech of 20 to form Scandinavia and you get the following event when you have Denmark as your personal union:
kalmar_union_successor_event.png

Note: It also makes you and Denmark historical friends too if you lose this status during the Restoration of Personal Union war.

While the main missions are all about reversing the flow of history and subjugating Denmark, there is also a reference to the Scottish Sinclar clan which swore loyalty to the Norwegian crown with the mission “The Claims of Orkney”. Completing it by conquering Scotland will fire this event:
scotland_event.png

These were the conquest missions for Norway. The rest of the tree is focusing on flavor and colonization, though one of these missions is of particular importance forNorway: “Expel Danish Nobility”.

As you can see, Norway was especially badly affected by the Black Death and lost the majority of its Norwegian nobility and royalty to the plague. As such, it was easier for the Danish nobility to replace them after the Kalmar Union. This is represented by the two starting privileges of Norway which are designed to be mildly annoying to have:
danish_nobility_privilege.png

Note: while these privileges are active the Norwegian AI is more inclined to accept the Danish King as their monarch during the Kalmar Succession events.

While not really too harmful, these privileges prevent you from completing the mission “Norway-Denmark” and “An Absolute Kingdom”, the latter one being a mission which will give +20 Max Absolutism and -20% Autonomy Change Cooldown permanently.

Moving on to the colonial missions, although the Norwegian ideas “The Call of our Forefathers” and “Pioneer Spirits” are not exactly accurate at capturing the spirit of Norway during the 15th century and onwards, but they at least enabled a unique play style for Norway where they are “Budget Britain”. As Sweden is busy with the affairs of Europe mostly and Denmark is focusing on trade in the Old World, it was only fitting for Norway to be more about the colonization of the New World.

The mission “Colonial Ambitions” will give you a head start on exploration as it will fire the following event for you:
greenland_maps.png

Speaking of Greenland, the mission “The Colony of Greenland” will require you to send troops to Greenland in order to see what happened to the former viking colony. Historically, the last written record of the Nordic Greenlanders documents a marriage in 1408. After that there was no contact with the people living there anymore.

By placing 3 regiments of infantry in either of Greenland provinces (under the assumption that they are uncolonized that is) you can complete the mission and get the following event:
greenland_event.png

greenland_event_second_option.png
The second option is the safe option where you always get the Greenland colony while the first is a gamble. 90% of the time you will get the following event when you try to look for the lost settlement:
no_signs_of_the_greenlandic.png

However, if you are lucky you get this event instead:
signs_of_the_greenlandic.png
The rest of the colonial missions focus naturally on the colonization of North America as well as expanding a little bit into South America too. They are in general quite self-explanatory, though one mission is a little bit special. “Navigation Mastery” is actually not about colonization but about circumnavigating the world!
navigation_mastery.png

Now let’s take a closer look at the internal missions. There are three small branches of them: trade, development of Norway, and religion.

The trade missions on the most left side of the mission tree are about completing Burgher Agendas, construct markets and, of course, dominating the trade of the North Sea and Lübeck. Highlights here are the permanent +20% Loyalty Bonus for Burghers with the mission “Monopolize the North Sea” and the new Burgher Estate privilege “Mountain Expansion” from the mission “Please the Burghers”.
mountain_expansion.png

The religious missions are also branching missions for Norway just like it is the case for Sweden and Denmark. However, Norway is focusing more on expanding the Heddal Stave Church in Bratsberg and keeping a stable country.

The final branch I want to talk about is the one regarding developing Norway - which also contains two missions regarding the military identity of Norway. While Denmark uses mercenaries for their wars and Sweden has its Caroleans, it was only fair that we would also give some love to Norway too.

The mission “Restore the Leidang” is about re-establishing the medieval Leidang conscription. Although ahistorical, it is an interesting way to make the military of Norway distinguishable from Sweden and Denmark as this mission will unlock the following Nobility privilege:
leidang_consription.png

“Expand the Royal Navy” will further improve your naval and marine gameplay as it gives permanently -10% Shock Damage Received for your Marines, completely nullifying their drawback, and unlocking an upgraded version of your Naval Doctrine too.
norwegian_upgraded_naval_doctrine.png

Note: Numbers and modifiers are still work in progress.

The other missions of the branch are more about actually developing Norway. “Restore the Infrastructure” will request you to develop Trondelag, Ostlandet and Vestlandet so that every owned province in these areas has 10 development. As a reward you get the following event:
iron_copper_event.png

Note: This event is one of the flavor events Norway already has. However, now you can trigger it on your own and don’t have to wait for it.

Over the duration of this modifier you get the chance to get the following events if you own the necessary provinces:
found_iron_copper_events.png

Note: we have decided to not touch the Vanilla Silver event. We might consider making this province into a gold province or not - depending on your feedback.

Finally, the mission “Norwegian Great Power” requires you to be one of the great powers with at least 600 development and gives the following rewards:
norwegian_great_power.png

And that was it for the content for Norway. Before we continue with the additions to the free update, let’s talk about the Caroleans. The last Development Diary has showcased the Caroleans and we have received a lot of constructive feedback from you.

We are still not finished with the balancing of the Caroleans, but I want to share our progress with you so far so we can get an idea if we are moving into a direction the community likes to see or not.

First thing, the Allotment System government reform has been rebalanced so that it reduces your force limit.
allotment_rebalance.png

The units themselves have received a nerf. They now deal +10% Shock Damage and have -15% Morale Damage Received instead.
carolean_units.png

Note: Background of the unit is still work in progress. We need to find the right tone of blue so it is distinguishable from Rajputs, Marines and Cawa units.

And finally the privilege “Carolean March” increases the discipline of Caroleans by 5% instead of 10%.

Now let us take a look at the changes for the government reforms, which are part of the free update.
new_monarchy_reforms.png
We have been working on revamping the government reforms available to the player and for today I want to showcase what we have so far for monarchies. Keep in mind: numbers and mechanics are still work in progress and what you see here is not final.

With that being said, I will go through every single tier and show the finished reforms of each tier:

Tier 2:
tier_2_reforms.png

Tier 3:
tier_3_reforms.png

Note regarding Tier 4: this government tier gets shared with the Republics and Theocracies, which means most of the reforms here are available to the other governments too. The reforms of Tier 4 focus on the religious and clerical matters of your state, and as such Tier 4 has 3 Clergy reforms and 14 government reforms depending on your own religion. Here are some examples of the religious government reforms:
tier_4_religion_reforms.png

Note: From left to right, the reforms are available for Catholics (minus the Pope), Muslims, Hindus and Buddhists.

These are the remaining Tier 4 reforms:
tier_4_reforms.png

Tier 5 (only one new reform, the rest are Vanilla)
tier_5_reform.png

Tier 6 is at this point of time unchanged, but we will address these reforms and make them more interesting to select.

Tier 7 is another common tier shared with Republics and Theocracies and handles the Burghers and all the economical matters of your country.
tier_7_reforms.png

Tier 8, which is a completely new tier for Monarchies, and the reforms for Tier 9 are still work in progress, so they will have to wait for next week’s Development Diary.

That was it for this week! For next week we will finally get to know more about this one special tag:
tease.png

Until then I wish you all a nice week!
 

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I like the concept of Marine unit but it is weaker than normal unit. If devs want us to use Marine more, then there has to be a way to improve Marine’s ability not only for Norway. Maybe through Burgher privilege or policy(maybe Maritime-Quality) or naval doctrine. Then it can be used as real special unit by player’s choice.
 
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Okay first I wanted to type: "If I wanna live my hoonka-boonka-doonka (noises vikings make in my head) viking fantasy let me live it damn it!"

But then I thought: Wait, that is not the right way to truly convince any people of why Norse should get an event/revival whatever (cuz, as others have said, it's already a pretty fleshed out religion in the game, more so then animism which besides Norse is the only religion in the game left to truly receive some love).

My gripe here is I see part Norwegians annoyed by a stereotype, part I guess historians by job (or study/hobby idk) and part just truly fun-killers (sorry not sorry).
I have to admit I partially understand the Norwegians here being annoyed by a viking stereotype they do not wanna be portrayed as, on the other hand there is enough nations in the game being represented by exactly the stereotypes others have about them. I am Dutch myself, for example I really dislike that they picked the Polders as a great project for Amsterdam, we're more than tulips, windmills and marshland/swamps. I'd rather they picked the Amsterdam Stock Exchange as a great project, the arguable birthplace of (somewhat) modern capitalism.

The other group is the historians here, as others have said already there are soooooooooo many examples in the game where history is bended to such an extent it is kinda broken, so I truly do not understand arguing why adding Norse revival as an event bothers yall so much. Again, it could be made that the AI never (or rarely) chooses such a thing and the choice for a Norse revival (as Norway or any other Scandinavian country) is to be left in the players hands only. I do not understand why taking any option away from players is justified in your eyes.

The last group I need to shortly address are the fun-killers, you know who you are.

I do find it highly suspicious though that in the dev's response there was NO mention of Norse at all, either they're planning something or they are truly 100% ignoring it and jeez the latter would be a big disappointment (I'll still buy it though cuz I have no backbone lmao).

In short these are my middle in the night rants about what I think on the Norse religion in EU4 (sorry for any spelling mistakes or truly nonsensical typing, blame the no-sleep delusion (which is gonna be blamed by all those historians in here)).
 
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I have played Sweden in competitive multiplayer quite a few times and they tend to really struggle keeping up with their neighbors. They have to kill either Muscovy, Poland, or England in order to be relevant, which you will never do if players of competent skill are on them, and often just end up as effectively a vassal state of either Britain or Russia. Even with the buffs given to them with this patch I am not sure if that situation would change. As such I think that giving them a stupid op unit like the pre-nerf Caroleans, or even just take the force limit malice out of the government reform for them, is needed to allow them to play with the big boys that are its neighbors.
 
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I beg you to add flavor to Iceland! They have such a fascinating history, even if they were a subject of norway for the entire game span. Pirate iceland is my favorite county in europe, by far. It would be amazing to add missions for going back to the age of the vikings, including a difficult option to rekindle the old norse ways. You could have tons of missions for raiding or settling in the british isles, colonizing greenland, and returning to vinland. There is a ton of stuff you could do with it.

It would be such a thrill to relive the viking age with an independent Iceland. Iceland already has ideas, they should have the flavor they deserve.

Also make fermented greenland shark a major trade good.

I'm loving this expansion so far!
 
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Why should anyone choose not to gamble if the bad outcome of the gamble is the same as the "save" choice which you get without gambling?

The safe choice gives a frontier, the "bad" gamble option gives colonies. Frontiers are free.

EDIT: it appears I was wrong. Could have sworn the pics had different texts when I first saw them. As it stands the choice is indeed really weird.
 
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I am dissapointed with the Carolean nerf and the alotment system. -33% force limit is a lot! And the Carolean's wouldent be a big part of the army, since their number is based on Swedish and Finnish development, 20 development to get 1 unit, if you add both prievledges, that's -50% so even more dev required to get 1 unit. Sweden start with 119 dev, That's only 6 infantry units of Caroleans, if you add the prievleges, it's even less.. So where is the Over powered part??? And also, is this really anywhere near historicly accurate? I belive Charles XII had over 90 000 men in the Great Northern war, i don't know how many of them were Caroleans, but i imagine a good part! I have seen numbers tho, from Charles XI, 18000 infantry, 8000 cavalry from Sweden, and 7000 infantry and 3000 cavalry from Finland. Along with several thousan seamen. But that would put the Caroleans in the number of 36000 in the year 1682. So i think this needs to be rethinked.
 
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I was hoping for one change to the national ideas of norway.

"The Call of our Forefathers
Can recruit explorers and conquistadors. Explorers may explore ocean provinces.+33% Colonial range"

Now with the addition of "free" colonies in Greenland the range will matter less, but most time when you are going for a colonial game you will pick up both exploration and expansion. That makes the ability to recruit explorers and conquistadors obsolete.

With the missions to get into Mexico I still see a use for exploartion as an idea group for Norway.
Would you be willing to change it into a settlers growth modifer or something of that nature instead?
 
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I have one question about the marines, are they affected by infantry combat modifiers?

A goldmine in Akershus is a great Idea! (I`m Norwegian and my oppinion may be biased)

And I also have a question for the mission in Scotland.
Will the modifier go away if we annex the march?
 
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when you are going for a colonial game you will pick up both exploration and expansion. That makes the ability to recruit explorers and conquistadors obsolete.
Subjects can't take Exploration. So that might be a way for AI Norway to colonize faster while staying under Kalmar Union.
 
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And therefore I hope it will be changed.
Thing about subjects not being able to get Exploration? I agree.
Changing idea for Norway - I don't. It lets get you some colonial game, while still not requiring you to comit 2 idea groups.
 
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Regarding the Caroleans, I still make the argument that they shouldn't be modelled as special unit, but rather a transformation for the entire Swedish infantry. If the worry is that this will make the Swedish army to powerful in general, then lower whatever bonuses they get.

I would also like to point out that this is not a deal breaker for me. But I feel like this Carolean special unit idea is kind of shoe horned in.
 
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Thing about subjects not being able to get Exploration? I agree.
Changing idea for Norway - I don't. It lets get you some colonial game, while still not requiring you to comit 2 idea groups.
I find myself picking up exploration first anyway and when I`m in the mid to lategame I usually drop it for something better.
But you make a good point, I just find it unoptimal for my prefered playstyle.
 
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I like Decentralized Bureaucracy for playing very wide with lots of territories. Territory has -75% governing cost and with this reform it would have -85% governing cost - that's equal to extra 66% gov capacity if counting only territories. TC has 50% and with reform 40% and with courthouse it's reduced to 15%.

Of course it's weak for states but decentralized suggests you aren't using states. I think there will be situations when it will be useful midgame before townhalls allows to TC everything without using gov capacity


Does refund in Centralized Bureaucracy mean i get admin and reformprogress back or refund is just dev increase? If I get points back I can centralize every state 4 times in 20 years and don't need gov capacity at all
 
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Could the colonial range for circumnavigation be changed to naval attrition? It seems to be both more rewarding/useful and also more on theme, since I assume that the sailors would learn more about surviving on sea rather than how to supply distant lands.
 
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I love that we're finally getting more content for Norway!
My favourite things are the heavy focus on marines with the mission to nullify the shock damage received malus and the Greenland Settlement event. However, to be honest I find it kind of lacking. Especially when compared to Sweden which has several events that Norway frankly should have too.

Aside from the obvious disappointment of not getting Norse resurgence content (which while ridiculous for the time period, would not be the most far out there thing in EU4) there are several things I would like to see adressed for Norway specifically.

1. It's really weird that Sweden receives missions and content relating to the sami and the forests while Norway doesn't. After all, the Sweden is not the only one state with a history of oppressing the Sami people. Getting some content relating to the peasant class without a nobility lording over them similar to what Sweden gets would not go amiss as well. Maybe relating to the conflicts between the Hansa and the burghers and the peasants?

2. Missions or event chains relating to the wood industry of Norway, especially since a free Norway would be free to expand their forest & sawmilling industry without limitations imposed by the Danish crown.

3. Very minor thing. Either the 'Norwegian Great Power' mission or the 'An Absolute Kingdom' mission should be renamed to 'Norgesveldet'. An option to rename the country to Norgesveldet once the Scottish and Greenlandic territories are under Norwegian control would be cool too. ;)

4. More content relating to the conflict between the Norwegians and the Hansa. As of right now (afaik) we only have the one Bergen riots event which gives Norway a stab hit straight away with a high chance of an additional stab hit if you support the riot and you're not independent. Not exactly a fun chain.

5. An event or a mission for a permanent claim on Kola based on the historical Norwegian fishing settlements. and some claims on Northern/Western England and on Ireland. (maybe even a Hardråde 2.0 mission?)

6. I don't know if having the leidang be a nobility privilege fits as this was an institution in which the King conscripted farmers in, as far as I've understood at least, a more direct way than the usual feudal levy or fyrd system. (I'd need to do a lot more reading to really say anything definitive on this.) Anyway, the main issue is that Norway has a functional nobility estate at all after expelling the danish nobility. Norway had what? Two countships and one barony during the whole eu4 timespan?

7. A naval force limit bonus either through ideas or through the Norwegian Sailors Naval Doctrine.

8. Less talking, more raiding.

All in all I'm still excited for the update and for what you have planned for the united Scandi tag!

(A gold mine would be awesome, btw)
 
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