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Europa Universalis IV - Development Diary 14th of June 2022

Welcome to our next Development Diary for Europa Universalis IV! Today we dive into the last starting Kingdom in Scandinavia, which has not been covered yet: Norway.

As for Denmark and Sweden, the History of Norway in the Modern Age directly depended on the fate of the Kalmar Union. After the accession of the House of Oldenburg to the Danish throne in 1448, the Danish kings increasingly centralized government, even if a Norwegian Council of State formally governed the country. In fact, Norwegian landed nobles and merchants prospered under this system, as they were effectively the middlemen between the Crown and the commoners. Although some rebellions arose, such as that of Knut Alvsson, the conflicts with the Danish crown were of much less intensity compared to Sweden. This changed with the Reformation, as Frederick I and Christian III's adherence to Protestantism sparked a revolt led by the Norwegian Church. However, it was defeated in the decade of the 1530s, so Denmark and Norway remained Tvillingerigerne (Twin Realms) until 1814.

Although Norway’s history is intertwined with that of Denmark throughout the EU4 time period, we have decided to reflect in the new mission tree for Norway the potential ambitions and challenges it would have faced had it broken free with the end of the Kalmar Union.
norwegian_mission_tree.png
Keep in mind: Norway’s mission tree was created before the mission trees of the Teutonic and Livonian Order. As such, the mission tree for Norway is a lot less “what if” even though they were historically no winner either. With that being said, let’s get a look at the details of the tree.

The missions of Norway are split into three themes: gain independence from Denmark and place your own Monarch on the Danish throne, Colonization and internal missions.

Starting with the independence missions, the mission “Norwegian Allies” can be completed by having two rivals or enemies of Denmark have 100 opinion of Norway. As a reward you can request their support through the following event:
norwegian_independence_event.png

norwegian_independence_event_second_option.png
norwegian_independence_event_third_option.png
norwegian_independence_event_fourth_option.png
norwegian_independence_event_fifth_option.png

Note: Although you are asking Denmark’s rivals/enemies for support in the first three options, you still get a flat reward so the war against Denmark/Sweden will be easier to handle even if the rivals refuse to support you.

Choosing one of the the first three option will of course trigger an event for Denmark’s rivals:
norwegian_independence_event_receiver.png

norwegian_independence_event_help.png

“Liberty for Norway!” will restore the stability loss and get you 30 Legitimacy while “Win Our Independence!” grants you a Restoration of Union cb against Denmark, allowing you to reverse the historical roles of Denmark and Sweden.

With the mission “Norway-Denmark” you no longer require an admin tech of 20 to form Scandinavia and you get the following event when you have Denmark as your personal union:
kalmar_union_successor_event.png

Note: It also makes you and Denmark historical friends too if you lose this status during the Restoration of Personal Union war.

While the main missions are all about reversing the flow of history and subjugating Denmark, there is also a reference to the Scottish Sinclar clan which swore loyalty to the Norwegian crown with the mission “The Claims of Orkney”. Completing it by conquering Scotland will fire this event:
scotland_event.png

These were the conquest missions for Norway. The rest of the tree is focusing on flavor and colonization, though one of these missions is of particular importance forNorway: “Expel Danish Nobility”.

As you can see, Norway was especially badly affected by the Black Death and lost the majority of its Norwegian nobility and royalty to the plague. As such, it was easier for the Danish nobility to replace them after the Kalmar Union. This is represented by the two starting privileges of Norway which are designed to be mildly annoying to have:
danish_nobility_privilege.png

Note: while these privileges are active the Norwegian AI is more inclined to accept the Danish King as their monarch during the Kalmar Succession events.

While not really too harmful, these privileges prevent you from completing the mission “Norway-Denmark” and “An Absolute Kingdom”, the latter one being a mission which will give +20 Max Absolutism and -20% Autonomy Change Cooldown permanently.

Moving on to the colonial missions, although the Norwegian ideas “The Call of our Forefathers” and “Pioneer Spirits” are not exactly accurate at capturing the spirit of Norway during the 15th century and onwards, but they at least enabled a unique play style for Norway where they are “Budget Britain”. As Sweden is busy with the affairs of Europe mostly and Denmark is focusing on trade in the Old World, it was only fitting for Norway to be more about the colonization of the New World.

The mission “Colonial Ambitions” will give you a head start on exploration as it will fire the following event for you:
greenland_maps.png

Speaking of Greenland, the mission “The Colony of Greenland” will require you to send troops to Greenland in order to see what happened to the former viking colony. Historically, the last written record of the Nordic Greenlanders documents a marriage in 1408. After that there was no contact with the people living there anymore.

By placing 3 regiments of infantry in either of Greenland provinces (under the assumption that they are uncolonized that is) you can complete the mission and get the following event:
greenland_event.png

greenland_event_second_option.png
The second option is the safe option where you always get the Greenland colony while the first is a gamble. 90% of the time you will get the following event when you try to look for the lost settlement:
no_signs_of_the_greenlandic.png

However, if you are lucky you get this event instead:
signs_of_the_greenlandic.png
The rest of the colonial missions focus naturally on the colonization of North America as well as expanding a little bit into South America too. They are in general quite self-explanatory, though one mission is a little bit special. “Navigation Mastery” is actually not about colonization but about circumnavigating the world!
navigation_mastery.png

Now let’s take a closer look at the internal missions. There are three small branches of them: trade, development of Norway, and religion.

The trade missions on the most left side of the mission tree are about completing Burgher Agendas, construct markets and, of course, dominating the trade of the North Sea and Lübeck. Highlights here are the permanent +20% Loyalty Bonus for Burghers with the mission “Monopolize the North Sea” and the new Burgher Estate privilege “Mountain Expansion” from the mission “Please the Burghers”.
mountain_expansion.png

The religious missions are also branching missions for Norway just like it is the case for Sweden and Denmark. However, Norway is focusing more on expanding the Heddal Stave Church in Bratsberg and keeping a stable country.

The final branch I want to talk about is the one regarding developing Norway - which also contains two missions regarding the military identity of Norway. While Denmark uses mercenaries for their wars and Sweden has its Caroleans, it was only fair that we would also give some love to Norway too.

The mission “Restore the Leidang” is about re-establishing the medieval Leidang conscription. Although ahistorical, it is an interesting way to make the military of Norway distinguishable from Sweden and Denmark as this mission will unlock the following Nobility privilege:
leidang_consription.png

“Expand the Royal Navy” will further improve your naval and marine gameplay as it gives permanently -10% Shock Damage Received for your Marines, completely nullifying their drawback, and unlocking an upgraded version of your Naval Doctrine too.
norwegian_upgraded_naval_doctrine.png

Note: Numbers and modifiers are still work in progress.

The other missions of the branch are more about actually developing Norway. “Restore the Infrastructure” will request you to develop Trondelag, Ostlandet and Vestlandet so that every owned province in these areas has 10 development. As a reward you get the following event:
iron_copper_event.png

Note: This event is one of the flavor events Norway already has. However, now you can trigger it on your own and don’t have to wait for it.

Over the duration of this modifier you get the chance to get the following events if you own the necessary provinces:
found_iron_copper_events.png

Note: we have decided to not touch the Vanilla Silver event. We might consider making this province into a gold province or not - depending on your feedback.

Finally, the mission “Norwegian Great Power” requires you to be one of the great powers with at least 600 development and gives the following rewards:
norwegian_great_power.png

And that was it for the content for Norway. Before we continue with the additions to the free update, let’s talk about the Caroleans. The last Development Diary has showcased the Caroleans and we have received a lot of constructive feedback from you.

We are still not finished with the balancing of the Caroleans, but I want to share our progress with you so far so we can get an idea if we are moving into a direction the community likes to see or not.

First thing, the Allotment System government reform has been rebalanced so that it reduces your force limit.
allotment_rebalance.png

The units themselves have received a nerf. They now deal +10% Shock Damage and have -15% Morale Damage Received instead.
carolean_units.png

Note: Background of the unit is still work in progress. We need to find the right tone of blue so it is distinguishable from Rajputs, Marines and Cawa units.

And finally the privilege “Carolean March” increases the discipline of Caroleans by 5% instead of 10%.

Now let us take a look at the changes for the government reforms, which are part of the free update.
new_monarchy_reforms.png
We have been working on revamping the government reforms available to the player and for today I want to showcase what we have so far for monarchies. Keep in mind: numbers and mechanics are still work in progress and what you see here is not final.

With that being said, I will go through every single tier and show the finished reforms of each tier:

Tier 2:
tier_2_reforms.png

Tier 3:
tier_3_reforms.png

Note regarding Tier 4: this government tier gets shared with the Republics and Theocracies, which means most of the reforms here are available to the other governments too. The reforms of Tier 4 focus on the religious and clerical matters of your state, and as such Tier 4 has 3 Clergy reforms and 14 government reforms depending on your own religion. Here are some examples of the religious government reforms:
tier_4_religion_reforms.png

Note: From left to right, the reforms are available for Catholics (minus the Pope), Muslims, Hindus and Buddhists.

These are the remaining Tier 4 reforms:
tier_4_reforms.png

Tier 5 (only one new reform, the rest are Vanilla)
tier_5_reform.png

Tier 6 is at this point of time unchanged, but we will address these reforms and make them more interesting to select.

Tier 7 is another common tier shared with Republics and Theocracies and handles the Burghers and all the economical matters of your country.
tier_7_reforms.png

Tier 8, which is a completely new tier for Monarchies, and the reforms for Tier 9 are still work in progress, so they will have to wait for next week’s Development Diary.

That was it for this week! For next week we will finally get to know more about this one special tag:
tease.png

Until then I wish you all a nice week!
 

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I wonder if people who are clamoring for the Norse revival realize that their Viking fantasy still wouldn't play out like they think they would, because the religion itself won't enable you to raid. So the "it takes only 10 minutes to copy-paste an event" doesn't really stand, national ideas would also have to be changed to play as Viking Norway, and that wouldn't make any sense if Norway remains Christian. And that also kinda neuters the "my fun doesn't affect your gameplay" argument.

I admit Paradox somewhat opened the floodgates for this with the meme Teuton Horde, but as others have pointed out, that in itself shouldn't be an argument to introduce even more meme content into the game.

In my opinion the custom nation route is enough to enable Viking roleplay, taking a nation down an alt-history path its real-world counterpart abandoned centuries before the game start would be a mistake, even if EU4 itself is an alt-history simulator once you unpause. But the key difference is that this alt-history develops after the game starts, and isn't based on something before the start date.

I believe the developers will regard even the Teuton Horde as a one off in the future, as they did with the harder Mali start. Meme content and OP mission trees are already often criticized aspects of EU4, in my opinion we don't need to go deeper down this route.
 
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I wonder if people who are clamoring for the Norse revival realize that their Viking fantasy still wouldn't play out like they think they would, because the religion itself won't enable you to raid. So the "it takes only 10 minutes to copy-paste an event" doesn't really stand, national ideas would also have to be changed to play as Viking Norway, and that wouldn't make any sense if Norway remains Christian. And that also kinda neuters the "my fun doesn't affect your gameplay" argument.
At which point have I ever mentioned Viking fatasy? I just want to have option to revive Norse. That's all. And I've said numerous times it doesn't have to be tied to Norwegian mission tree. It can be some event during Age of Discovery available for everyone - "while developing your settlement in Greenland you find some villages which seem to have European/Scandinavian/whatever ancestry. After years of lost contact their inhabitants whish to rejoin civilization. They follow strange beliefs though..."
Option 1: filthy heathens, accept only those who will follow our teachings => +100/200 population in colony, AI takes it 100% or 99.9% of time
Option 2: we'll send our preachers later => +400 population in colony, change culture to Icelandic, change religion to Norse. AI never takes it or only 0.1% of time
Done.
Or just some obscure and very rare event in Age of Discovery, only once per game that would randomly convert one mounatin or forest province in Scandinavia - some remote villages still follow old faith. Some of their neighbours seem to be reminiscing old times.
Option 1: Blasphemous - -1 manpower dev, remains Christian AI 100% or 99.9%
Option 2: We'll send some priests later - change religion to Norse, 10 years of religious zeal. AI 0% or 0.1%
Done.
With option that those events may not fire at all - something akin to Jewish Thessaloniki.
 
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Hey @Ogele nice gov. reforms you guys put. Can't wait to try them out. Suggestion, it would be realy cool if you guys would add more unique gov. reforms for EoC that could play into Confucianism or being an EoC. And perhaps more unique Qing missions :). As for this DD nice work guys keep up.
 
Its just so tiresome to have a game explicitly set during the Catholic and Protestant eras of Scandinavian history, and see everyone just wanting to return to the 900s. There's even this massive sense of surprise and confusion that the devs didn't do it. Norse revivalism was apparently the default assumption to the point that everyone just took it for granted. Post-Christianization Scaninavia is apparently so worthless that the only reason anyone would ever want to play there is to go back to the viking age as soon as possible.
 
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Just here to pitch in my two cents about a potential "gold" mine in Sandsvær: Yes, please, and thank you.

Would love for it to be its own province, but as I well know, that's not an option. Still, the change to gold would makes sense given the importance of the mine. The current tax buff I would argue doesn't really do it justice when compared to how important it was, and with just a flat tax modifier there isn't any potential for player-controlled mining expansion. More agency please.

Would also love some kind of trade value buff for Hålogaland, to simulate the importance of the fishing industry, and the export of stockfish.
 
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Its just so tiresome to have a game explicitly set during the Catholic and Protestant eras of Scandinavian history, and see everyone just wanting to return to the 900s. There's even this massive sense of surprise and confusion that the devs didn't do it. Norse revivalism was apparently the default assumption to the point that everyone just took it for granted. Post-Christianization Scaninavia is apparently so worthless that the only reason anyone would ever want to play there is to go back to the viking age as soon as possible.
Its just so tiresome to have a game explicitly set during the Sunni and Shia eras of Persian history, and see everyone just wanting to return to the 600s. There's even this massive sense of surprise and confusion that the devs didn't do it. Zoroastrian revivalism was apparently the default assumption to the point that everyone just took it for granted. Post-Islamisation Persia is apparently so worthless that the only reason anyone would ever want to play there is to go back to the Sassanid age as soon as possible.

Ah no, wait a minute...

Anyway, I don't particualrly care about Norse revival but I really don't understand where all this negativity is coming from. Norse enjoyers can't have fun their way because what, the game would be somewhat less enjoyable for others if there was an option to do that?

I personally think it would be really fun campaign to play and I would most probably try both.
 
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The Caroleans you see here are not set in stone. What I presented was more the idea of changing the balance of the unit as right now there were many (justified) arguments that the whole Swedish army should be Caroleans than them being a special unit per se.
For example, right at this moment, the Allotment System and the Carolean look like this:
View attachment 850038View attachment 850039
+ 1 Carolean Regiment per 10 Dev (though this idea is a little bit on thin ice)

Personally, I am a firm believer that good game development comes from an open dialogue from the players and the developers, so I am more than open to hear suggestions, constructive crticism and ideas for balancing them.

Next week there will be another (hopefully final) update regarding the Carolean status and what appraoch we will keep for them.

Seems pretty good, but what about giving Caroleans a lower reinforcement speed. This way you need to think about when to use them, as you don't want to lose them too quickly. Perhaps even make them take fewer losses, but have them only reinforce in peace time, that way the way you use them might influence whether you win or lose a war.
 
I wonder if people who are clamoring for the Norse revival realize that their Viking fantasy still wouldn't play out like they think they would, because the religion itself won't enable you to raid. So the "it takes only 10 minutes to copy-paste an event" doesn't really stand, national ideas would also have to be changed to play as Viking Norway, and that wouldn't make any sense if Norway remains Christian. And that also kinda neuters the "my fun doesn't affect your gameplay" argument.

I admit Paradox somewhat opened the floodgates for this with the meme Teuton Horde, but as others have pointed out, that in itself shouldn't be an argument to introduce even more meme content into the game.

In my opinion the custom nation route is enough to enable Viking roleplay, taking a nation down an alt-history path its real-world counterpart abandoned centuries before the game start would be a mistake, even if EU4 itself is an alt-history simulator once you unpause. But the key difference is that this alt-history develops after the game starts, and isn't based on something before the start date.

I believe the developers will regard even the Teuton Horde as a one off in the future, as they did with the harder Mali start. Meme content and OP mission trees are already often criticized aspects of EU4, in my opinion we don't need to go deeper down this route.
Couldn’t the ability to raid coasts be added as one of the base Norse religion modifiers instead (like tolerance is for Catholics or dev cost reduction for Anglicans)? Then there’s no impact to NI’s and it’s back to a “”quick”” (I’m not a dev so I won’t speak to that) change that any nation with norse religion would have only at the cost of either the 10% land or 10% naval FL (or both) that come with Norse already.
 
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Couldn’t the ability to raid coasts be added as one of the base Norse religion modifiers instead? Then there’s no impact to NI’s and it’s back to a “”quick”” (I’m not a dev so I won’t speak to that) change that any nation with norse religion would have
it can be part of religion, ideas, or just government reform - I think norse nation shouldn't use default Feudal Nobility anyway. I think it could be even possible as some kind of mission reward
 
-33% Forcelimit for Sweden Allotment system makes literally no sense, Sweden had one of the largest armies in the world for their size historically but now what they were known for is what you made them have the opposite of, what?

Besides Caroleans wasn't really that OP because it required you to have Swedish or Finnish culture provinces AND that they have atleast 20 Dev to even have 1. This means for 1000 Swedish/Finnish dev you can only have 50 Caroleans, 1 army. At that point you have wasted tons of monarch points just to change culture and develop and keep in mind this is JUST the Swedish/Finnish provinces, at this point you probably have half of Europe anyway and your total Forcelimit is probably in the 500s. so 50/500 really is not overpowered. Now you just made it completely useless.

I don't think many people here understand that Norse traditions and beliefs lived well into the 19th century, there are documents of people still giving offerings to the gods in Sweden even though they also followed Christianity. A Norse revival really is not that far off historically and would be very possible. Most people still honored and respected the old ways and during the time of the Protestant league there were very highly influenced advisors and people in Sweden that wanted to bring back the Runic Alphabet. Claiming Norse beliefs is "dead and gone" is just projection since almost every tradition even to date is almost the exact way we celebrated during paganism.
 
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Again, seeing as Devs have replied, why are the Faroe Islands part of Gaeldom?

Did you honestly not know what they are or what.

Also, about the only tag that could conceivably be Norse would be either Iceland via event or maybe you could have Greenland do it (though I'd prefer them having Inuit culture tbh)
 
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The Force limit nerf on the Allotment System Government Reform for Sweden seems like a step too far.
Caroleans are by no means strong enough to make up for the fact that you are fielding 33% less troops than an opponent with the same development and ideas.
The nerfs on the units themselves alone would be fine imo, even though it means that they are once again not noticeable in combat because their forcelimit to strength ratio is too bad.
This problem is the same for basically any special unit type. Only the ones that do not cost anything more than the unit they are replacing is actually worth investing into. (Free units like Streltsy are always worth it)

I believe that the forcelimit nerf on the Allotment System should be revoked and then Caroleans would be fine as good Special Units.
 
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So looking forward to trying out some new Baltic playthroughs! But, this event name... "The Lost Greenland Settlement"... Come on, such a missed opportunity to make an easter egg reference to the old SNES game "The Lost Vikings"! I'd even want to throw in their names (Baelog, Olaf & Erik) somehow in the event chain :D Wouldn't the Greenlandic settlements also be a fun way to include the CK2 conversion "Norse Pagan" religion into EU4? It kinda feels like these settlements would be more old-school faithwise, rather than being in communion with the catholic church.

By placing 3 regiments of infantry in either of Greenland provinces (under the assumption that they are uncolonized that is) you can complete the mission and get the following event:
 
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Seems a little counter-productive to give the UK island OPM's like Manx have a tag, but instead offer Gaeldom the faroes is a little odd, the scottish lairds never recognised the holidays of Ólavsøka for instance or used anglicized norwegeian spelling. Being able to form Scandinavia as Faroe, Gotland or Iceland would be a fun achievement.

Its just so tiresome to have a game explicitly set during the Catholic and Protestant eras of Scandinavian history, and see everyone just wanting to return to the 900s. There's even this massive sense of surprise and confusion that the devs didn't do it. Norse revivalism was apparently the default assumption to the point that everyone just took it for granted. Post-Christianization Scaninavia is apparently so worthless that the only reason anyone would ever want to play there is to go back to the viking age as soon as possible.

I do think there is a perception issue rooted where modern scandinavians (much to say, any people nowadays in a similar situation) distance themselves from a past of reputed pagan violence, but media has gone a fair bit to romanticise and educate about Vikings and Norse culture (especially pantheon) outside of the Baltic. I do hope the devs throw us a bone because, we're not trying to demean the simulation of history for the people who want to follow a straightfoward christian path "as it happened" by larping as vikings, but rather want to explore as many interesting ways to play the country as possible.
 
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Again, seeing as Devs have replied, why are the Faroe Islands part of Gaeldom?

Did you honestly not know what they are or what.

Also, about the only tag that could conceivably be Norse would be either Iceland via event or maybe you could have Greenland do it (though I'd prefer them having Inuit culture tbh)
Orkney and Shetland don't make much sense as part of Gaeldom either
 
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Could you add Ryazan tag as formable via decision? and some of the other minors from Russia region like Tver and Pskov? Right now there is no way to play as them if you don't start as them (except for all the mess of "release vassal")
I imagine is an "easy" add on to the game and the tags are close enough to the Baltic!

That privilage for Norway to develop mountains is really nice, can a similar one be available to andean nations? its all mountains in that region (although more hospitable than frigid Norway, so maybe even a greater bonus for development)

Saludos!


@Ogele.
 
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