• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Europa Universalis IV - Development Diary 26th of September 2023 - Byzantium

On the 13th August 2013, EU4 was released to the public - and with it a small little event pack called “Purple Phoenix” for a country whose popularity was almost uncanny even back then. Over the ten years, this popularity did not stop but rose further and further, and now it is one of the main three focus points of King of Kings.

Welcome to today’s Development Diary which is all about the one country you guys have been looking forward to the most: Byzantium. Hardly in need of any more introduction on the country, as every single patch of EU4 has at least one video tutorial dedicated to the remnant of the Roman Empire. So without further ado, let us jump into the content we can expect for Byzantium in 1.36.

So first thing first: the setup of Byzantium. The province change has been somewhat spoiled already, but I will mention it here nonetheless to confirm it: yes, Mesambria is now part of Byzantium and it will have the Bulgarian core on it:
img1.png


Another change is the adjustments on the stats of its heir, Konstantinos Palaiologos. Although the empire did eventually fall under his rule, it was not anything he could have prevented, and as such the stats he had were a bit unfair considering his experiences as the past Despot of Morea. He is now a 5/2/3!

Speaking of Morea, the area of Morea now starts with +25% Local Autonomy to represent the kinsmen of the Byzantine Emperors ruling over this part of the empire.

Another point of Byzantine adjustments is their ideas. While their +3 TotF and 3% Missionary Strength make them a strong religious country, the rest of their ideas are relatively underwhelming. As Byzantium is an end-game tag it felt kind of justified to balance their ideas a bit better out. Additionally, it is a nice reward for players who survive the early years.

These are the new ideas (Ideas with a # at the start are the modifiers that used to be there pre-1.36):
Code:
BYZ_ideas = {
    start = {
        advisor_cost = -0.10
        improve_relation_modifier = 0.2
        #tolerance_own = 3
    }
 
    bonus = {
        tolerance_own = 3
        #prestige = 1
    }
 
    trigger = {
        tag = BYZ
    }
    free = yes
 
    repopulation_of_countryside = {
        global_trade_goods_size_modifier = 0.1
        #merc_maintenance_modifier = -0.15
    }
 
    byz_roman_empire = {
        core_creation = -0.25
        #global_manpower_modifier = 0.1
        #global_trade_goods_size_modifier = 0.05
    }
 
    ecumenical_patriarch = {
        global_missionary_strength = 0.03
        yearly_patriarch_authority = 0.003
        #global_tax_modifier = 0.1
    }
 
    byz_corpus_iuris_civilis = {    #Replaces byz_admin_power for Purple Phoenix events
        reform_progress_growth = 0.2
        #stability_cost_modifier = -0.1
    }
 
    byz_protect_the_frontiers = {
        defensiveness = 0.15
        #global_trade_power = 0.1
    }
 
    byz_strategikon = {
        discipline = 0.05
    }


    new_imperial_army = {
        global_manpower_modifier = 0.15
        #global_missionary_strength = 0.03
    }
}

With that out of the way, let’s talk for a moment about the intentions for Byzantium. I mentioned in the Persia Development Diary that countries that receive content tend to become a lot easier than they used to be, hence Ardabil received explicitly nothing that could trivialize their early game.

Byzantium is another candidate where we explicitly want it to be a fight for survival. Because of that, the Byzantines will now start with 4 privileges which are more curses than blessings to you:
img3.png

Note: That privilege increases the starting opinion of the Papal State of you by 125. More to it later.
img4.png

Note: The Morale Reduction is only present if you have King of Kings active as the mission tree will give you Land Morale modifiers over the course of the campaign to counteract this privilege.
img5.png

img6.png

All of the privileges with the exception of 'Reliance on Republics' can be removed through decisions. Both the starting privileges and the decisions are part of the 1.36 update.

Additionally to the penalties, the privileges also cause certain events to happen to your country. Our first example is the Union of Churches. Roughly 3 months into the game you get greeted with the following event in regard to the union:
img10.png

While revoking the privilege immediately would prevent the spawn of rebels further down the line, there is an argument to be made for keeping the privilege active as they can trigger the following event if you are in a defensive war against the Ottomans while having this privilege active:
img11.png
I don’t want to spoil this part as this should be rather experienced in your own playthrough. But a little teaser: the second option allows for a very different religious path for the Byzantines!

Moving on, the 'Tax Exemption' privilege also fires an event that can be an early game boon with a long-term penalty.
img12.png

Byzantium has been fitted with many early game events leading up to their eventual demise. While it would be lovely to showcase them all, we only have so much time. So here are a few:
img13.png

Note: that event is firing for the Ottomans. The follow-up event is triggered for the Byzantines.
img14.png

img15.png

img16.png

Also an event for the Ottomans in relation to the Byzantine content:
img17.png

One final thing to mention to make the early game even more of a challenge - the starting reform for the Byzantines has been adjusted with a new penalty… and a new mechanic (more to it later):
img18.png

img19.png

There is nothing more Roman than falling in the back of your countrymen in time of need for a chance to seize absolute power for yourself.

Now that we have the events through, it is time to take a look at the new mission tree for the Byzantines for the upcoming DLC:
img20.png

Note: with 55 missions in one playthrough, the Byzantine tree is the largest of the DLC.

First a few words about the general theme of the mission tree before going into detail: there are vastly different ideas of what is to be expected of a tree for Byzantium (a look into your local Steam Workshop is a fast way to see what I mean). Some would like to see the addition of Hellenism and a whole path revolving around it, others want a mission tree that revolves around the big “what if” questions of a modernized Byzantium that no longer tries to forge its own destiny independently from the Roman legacy.

While all of these ideas are great ones to explore, we have decided to focus on the one path which is generally the one accepted by the majority of the player base which is the ambition of restoring the Roman Empire. The goal was to keep the spirit of the Purple Phoenix mission tree and expand it with flavor so the reconquest of your empire feels like a bigger narrative than just good ol’ blobbing.

The mission tree is split into six parts:
  • A small defensive part with three missions revolving around reinforcing the Theodosian Walls and constructing the Hexamilion Wall
  • A large conquest part starting from “The Impending Doom”
  • A small trade part of the two missions “Peloponnesian Renaissance” and “Monemvasian Merchants”
  • An internal infrastructure part starting from “A Tarnished State” and “Promote the Emporoi”
  • A part about the military and administrative aspects of the Empire
  • And finally the religious part
As usual, I will start with the more obvious part which would be in that case the re-conquest missions. In this branch of the missions, you gain areas of permanent claims after another area of permanent claims. Notable within this branch is the theme of an evolving permanent modifier as a reward. Usually, you get the strong permanent modifier at the end of a mission path. Here, however, you get it early on, though in a very weak state:
img21.png

This modifier will then be further modified through follow-up missions:
img22.png

Finally merged into the finisher reward once you finish the conquest path of the mission tree which requests you to be the Roman Empire:
img23.png
The final version of the modifier at the end of your long spree of conquest has the following bonuses:
Governing Capacity: +300
Global Missionary Strength: +2%
Yearly Prestige: +1
Morale of Armies: +10%
Morale of Navies: +10%
Stability Cost: -25%

Of course, this part of the tree has more to offer than just a growing modifier though. Here are some other great highlights of the conquest part:
img24.png

img27.png

img28.png

Oh, while I am at it: the decision to form the Roman Empire has been adjusted.
img29.png

Note: this will retroactively affect the achievement "Mehmet's Ambition" too. Also, we might add some key provinces to the decision to be part of the Empire - depending on how these changes play out.
img30.png
In total, there are 475 provinces highlighted, and you will actually have to conquer MORE provinces than before. But at least you no longer have to subject yourself to the conquest of Mesopotamia anymore.

Moving on, the next part is about the walls of Constantinople:
img31.png

img32.png

img33.png

I should talk about the elephant in the room here: yes, the Theodosian Wall is a permanent province modifier instead of a unique monument. This is a choice that has been made because we want to spread out the monuments and the Theodosian Walls would be put on a province that already has two static monuments placed on it.

Anyhow, the defensive missions are relatively easy to achieve early game which can give you some significant months to survive the Ottomans.

Now let us take a small look at the small trading missions:
img34.png

Gemistos Plethon is the only, small nod to Hellenism you can expect from 1.36. For more information, I highly suggest checking out Third Odyssey.

With that out of the way, let’s continue with a more exciting part of the mission tree: the internal development and infrastructure missions:
img35.png

img36.png

img37.png

img39.png

And of course the map color in question:
img40.png
It is the color of the Roman Empire.

Continuing on with the religious part of the mission tree. Due to the Council of Florence and the religious policies enacted by the last Emperor, the public trust in the Patriarch and the government has crumbled. This mission branch focuses on rebuilding that trust, limiting the rivals, and eventually bringing the schism to an end. Beginning with the trust:
img41.png

img42.png

While also limiting the ever stronger Muscovy ambition:
img43.png

Restoring the Pentarchy:
img44.png

img45.png

img46.png

Note: this decision is usable every 25 years.

And of course, mending the Schism:
img47.png

Note: the mending will be significantly more difficult though as you must ensure that 300 provinces in Europe are Orthodox and in Orthodox hands. Fortunately, many provinces are already Orthodox. They just need a Roman hand to free themselves from the heretics.

And at last the military and administrative missions. The “Sea Fire” mission lets one already guess what it is all about. So once you finish it, your galleys get +10% combat ability for the rest of the game under the assumption that they are once again using the Liquid Fire.

Now before we continue with the branching missions, let us take a short look at a new mechanic added for Byzantium which is the Pronoia. This new subject type is available to countries with the Byzantine Autocracy, Reformed Byzantine Monarchy, the Roman Empire, and the Roman Republic government reforms.

Nations with Pronoia available will be able to convert their Vassals and Client States into a new type of subject, the Pronoia. The idea of the subject type is to provide military support during your wars. Pronoia Subjects get military bonuses and do not cost a diplomatic relation slot, but are limited by a new modifier – Number of Pronoiars.
The sources of the above include:
+1 per 100 Force Limit
+2 for “Reform the Pronoia System”

img48.png
+2-4 from Byzantine Missions and up to +6 from various idea groups (namely Offensive, Aristocracy, Espionage, Quantity, and Administrative)

As for how to establish and annex these subjects and what bonuses they give, I will let those images speak for themselves:
img49.png

img50.png

img52.png
After you ‘Retract Right to Inheritance’, the Pronoia will be annexed on their monarch’s death. We are looking forward to the “Pronoia Swarms”!

Anyway, back to the missions. Let us familiarize ourselves with the Theme System:
img53.png

As you can see, The Byzantine mission tree utilizes the same Preview System as Persia does: you can choose between a standing-army build or a mercenary, feudal build:
img55.png

First, let us begin with the Standing Army Build. With this rendition, you will be able to take stricter control over the Pronoia subjects that you have, opting for their quality:
img57.png
There is also a mission about the Varangian Guard, allowing you to bring this nearly-extinct guard back to life, making you into the real Lord of Varangian. Lastly, a final mission that gives your troops a bit more firepower while also making them cheaper by granting them +10% Land Fire Damage and -10% Land Maintenance Modifier.

The other branch focuses on building a military based on mercenaries and Pronoiar. The missions here will allow you to focus on the quantity aspect, while also providing bonuses to Mercenaries:
img56.png

img59.png
The final mission here gives an additional +50% Mercenary Manpower and +5% Mercenary Discipline.

Note: All the art is placeholder, as the new icons are currently WIP. All the numbers are also WIP and are subject to change.

That was it for this week. Thank you all for reading today’s Development Diary! My colleague @PDXBigBoss will continue next week with a hefty DD on Georgia, Armenia, and the Qoyunlus!

Before we say goodbye, we thought you'd enjoy a sequel to the most recent Byzantium Comic from FatherLorris:
ByzComicPt2.png
 

Attachments

  • img26.png
    img26.png
    298 KB · Views: 0
Last edited by a moderator:
  • 87Love
  • 63Like
  • 22
  • 9
  • 6Haha
  • 5
Reactions:
We know you milked eu 4 like a dutch cow, but isn't it time for eu 5? The game's engine works like crap on new systems
The sweet summer child in me wants to believe that they are working on EU5 in some capacity and are releasing content packs that don't lean heavily on changes to mechanics so we don't get a content drought for 3 years while they develop the new game
 
The sweet summer child in me wants to believe that they are working on EU5 in some capacity and are releasing content packs that don't lean heavily on changes to mechanics so we don't get a content drought for 3 years while they develop the new game
well, EU 5, when it eventually gets released, will be barebone

I will probably play EU 4 for at least 2 years, before moving to EU 5

Just look what happened to Vicky
 
  • 5
Reactions:
Its always silly in my opinion when AU paths for "Byzantine Resurgence" take the form of a RETVRN style reapplying past reforms (like the Theme system that proved one part in the downfall, or the Varangian Guard which is very anachronistic at any point after 1600), instead of making new reforms that adapt to the modern situation, IE becoming either MUCH more like the Ottoman system or reducing the ability of any other aristocrat to start a civil war any time someone looks at them funny or the big one of becoming much more open and pluralistic to other religions and cultures.

This weird fantasy of "The Christian Greek Empire rises again!!!!" is what made them lose in the first place
 
  • 8Like
  • 2
  • 1
  • 1
Reactions:
Have you given anything unique to Byzantium regarding the Renaissance? The fall of Byzantium actually helped kickstart the Renaissance as you had a number of greeks fleeing to western europe across the mediterranean bringing with them a lot of classical knowledge and fueling interest in the classical world. And parts of Greece under italian control, notably Venetian Crete were seen as bastions of Renaissance art, culture, and learning.

I think something that would balance it well is that Byzantium gets some institution embracement buffs if they retake mainland Greece (that last only long enough to be relevant to the Renaissance institution) that would help simulate the growth of 'Roman' culture in a resurgent Byzantium, while if they fall you have increased growth of the Renaissance in Christian Mediterranean countries. Byzantium will be rewarded with faster growth of the Renaissance if they're succeeding, but if the Ottomans (or some other muslim power) take Constantinople then western europe is instead strengthened.
 
  • 5Like
Reactions:
Correct me if I am wrong, but even then it was not called (Eastern) Roman Empire but "Empire of the Romans", so technically "Romania" would be even more culturally specific term than Eastern Roman Empire. I think we are mixing name of a state with the titles of the ruler (ruling class), which to be honest Paradox does often, e.g. instead of State of Rhodes we have Knights'. Also there never was state called "Ottomans" nor "Ottoman Empire" there was only "Sublime Ottoman State". I am all for historical accuracy, but this seems as big can of worms with the need of renaming most of EU4 tags.
Refer to my earlier post, it was called the ERE, Romania, or Roman Empire. I'm pretty sure the, but not totally sure, that the "Byzantines" called themselves just the Roman Empire.

As far as the other terms you mentioned, admittedly I don't know as much about them. From what I could gather, though, the "Turkish Empire" or "Ottoman Empire" are correct names. The "Sublime Ottoman State" was referencing the state elites, not the country or the land it held. So part of the state was known as the SOS, the country and land was the Turkish Empire or Ottoman Empire. There is a difference between state and country. Again, I could be very wrong on this as I really don't know as much.

As far as what I could find on Rhodes, it was simply referred to as Hospitaller Rhodes and possibly The Knights Hospitaller of Rhodes of the Order of St. John hence the term "The Knights" for the island. It probably should be called Hospitaller Rhodes in the game maybe. Once again, I could be wrong about this one too as I don't really know that much about it.
 
  • 1
Reactions:
Have you given anything unique to Byzantium regarding the Renaissance? The fall of Byzantium actually helped kickstart the Renaissance as you had a number of greeks fleeing to western europe across the mediterranean bringing with them a lot of classical knowledge and fueling interest in the classical world. And parts of Greece under italian control, notably Venetian Crete were seen as bastions of Renaissance art, culture, and learning.

I think something that would balance it well is that Byzantium gets some institution embracement buffs if they retake mainland Greece (that last only long enough to be relevant to the Renaissance institution) that would help simulate the growth of 'Roman' culture in a resurgent Byzantium, while if they fall you have increased growth of the Renaissance in Christian Mediterranean countries. Byzantium will be rewarded with faster growth of the Renaissance if they're succeeding, but if the Ottomans (or some other muslim power) take Constantinople then western europe is instead strengthened.
This. From the cultural aspect, the mission tree is... lacking

If we are going alt...and, yes, Byzantines in EU are alt as you are going to get, then it would be nice to have a Rennaisance mission, as well as something related to gunpowder - one could assume that if the Empire survived, it would follow the similar path as other Meditteranean nations.
Anything in planning, @Ogele or @PDXBigBoss?

Also, as religion played an essential part in the Empire's life and politics, it would be interesting to see some strife once the eastern provinces are returned back to the fold. After all, one of the reasons, the Arab conquest was so successful is that the people in Syria and Africa did not agree with tenets propagated from Constantinople.
 
  • 2
Reactions:
The therma is a nice touch but should get a new nobility edict which add more rebelions when the ruler dies (this side effect happend over time to local families being able to gain power in the therma system and buying the free peoples lands)

I really wished there would been a option to integrate turkish bulgarian and serbian cultur into the greek cultur group at least instead of just converting them. Especial Bulgarians and Serbians took a lot cultural influences from the east roman state. So do the missions like unite and integrate the balkans first and then focus on reovering the old anatolian heartland would been a nice touch.

While i can agree that the costal regions should be mostly greek or pontic the inner of anatolia was really turkish at this point and it would make a nice divice if you can spread your influence from the cost inwards converting them and creat a turkish greek mix cultur and get some cav special unit / mercs or go with a tolerance path which keep them as loyal turkish sunni subjects which provide a siphan cav merc unit (janissaries dont make sense really)
 
This. From the cultural aspect, the mission tree is... lacking

If we are going alt...and, yes, Byzantines in EU are alt as you are going to get, then it would be nice to have a Rennaisance mission, as well as something related to gunpowder - one could assume that if the Empire survived, it would follow the similar path as other Meditteranean nations.
Anything in planning, @Ogele or @PDXBigBoss?

Also, as religion played an essential part in the Empire's life and politics, it would be interesting to see some strife once the eastern provinces are returned back to the fold. After all, one of the reasons, the Arab conquest was so successful is that the people in Syria and Africa did not agree with tenets propagated from Constantinople.
the discontent in Syria and Africa was mainly political, not religious though. Syropalestine just didnt like the byzantines. It had nothing to do with faith (with the exception of the jews probably)
 
the discontent in Syria and Africa was mainly political, not religious though. Syropalestine just didnt like the byzantines. It had nothing to do with faith (with the exception of the jews probably)
In the Christian Roman Empire, religion was interwoven with politics. And it remained the same until the very end

Now imagine if the Empire somehow survived. Imagine the impact of religion and politics in the time of reformation
 
You... you did not read the DLC description on steam, have you? It literally says: "This Immersion Pack to Europa Universalis IV adds greater depth and historical flavor to the nations surrounding the Ottoman Empire. The focus is on the nations of Persia, the Mamluk Sultanate and the Byzantine Empire as each fights to survive in a region rich with conflict, drama and diversity. King of Kings adds hundreds of new missions and events, as well as unique powers and characteristics for the major players in the region." You can note here that is says 'surrounding the Ottoman Empire' which is their way of saying "this is how we'll include Byzantium". Also, as other people noted, Byzantium is incredibly popular so since they couldn't add it in Domination they added it here, it's that simple.

This does not mean that the rest of the Middle East that has not been covered yet won't get anything. Heck, they literally said they're doing several nations next week and are going to focus on the others afterwards. Also, *no* religions have gotten an actual revamp in a long time in terms of mechanics and while several big Catholic nations did get unique stuff in domination, so did Russia(Orthodox), Ming(Confucian), Japan(Shinto) and Ottomans(Sunni). Now, I get that you might not care about any other country and religion here, but this clearly shows they DO in fact care to provide stuff to non-Europe nations and they will continue to do so. It's not like we haven't seen both Persia and Mamluks with really interesting mechanics and stuff added to them and this is just the beginning of this DLC. They are adding stuff, but they also can't add everything all at once due to how development works.

Also, I suggest you should speak for yourself when you say "nowhere enough to appease the community". No one here posts for "the community", neither you nor me. Just say plainly YOU are the one who is dissatisfied. Personally, I don't see how they're "dropping the ball" when Byzantium is literally the only non Middle East country that will be feature and basically everything else is for Middle East. In addition, I absolutely love Aq Qoyunlu and want to see what they do with them and yeah if I don't think they did good enough for them I also won't be satisfied, but, you know, I am not willing to put the cart before the horse when it comes to my judgment of what they're going to do. I think actually seeing everything *after* they release the dev diaries is when I can fully evaluate what they've done for the region which is exactly what I'm going to do.

Edit: I should also add that there's a big difference in terms of development after Leviathan - Paradox Tinto, which are the current dev studio that have done DLCs after Leviathan (but not Leviathan itself, at least to my knowledge) were formed only after Leviathan while the devs that did EU4 before them shifted to other projects. Simply saying "Paradox did the thing wrong" without acknowledging it was not done by the same devs and that there is a clear difference in how the dev teams work and research is a big oversight to me.
Do you even play Multiplayer games? The general consensus in multiplayer lobbies is that it's not worth playing in the middle East, and not just because of the location. So in a way, yes, I can speak for the entire community.

Like, every tag there feels generic, empty and flavourless. People have been claimoring for a Persia/Middle East DLC for years and to see Paradox drop the ball this hard feels like a punch to the stomach, not to mention that this is merely an immersion pack. Add to that the fact that this is one of the last DLCs for EU4 (if not the last) and I don't see Paradox putting much effort into the remaining tags in the Muslim world that are in a desperate need of a revamp, if at all.

So, rather than putting every last bit of effort that they could muster into making sure that they'd not disappoint with one of their last DLCs for EU4 and to make sure that it's as good as Domination, nope. They just listen to the wrong people who complained about Domination's mission tree. "IT's MiSSIOn TRee iS TOO haRd To FollOW" they said. And so, Paradox tailored this next DLC's mission trees for those newbs, casuals and the AI. It's all at the beginning of the dev diary.

Are we the players AI now? I mean, I've heard in some youtube videos that most people are NPCs so, in a way, that's not wrong.
 
  • 12
  • 1Like
Reactions:
With this "Ottoman lunch" DLC, is there any plan to do anything about the absolute absurdity of the state of the Ottoman military? So playing nearby them is actually fun?
 
  • 4
  • 1
Reactions:
Do you even play Multiplayer games? The general consensus in multiplayer lobbies is that it's not worth playing in the middle East, and not just because of the location. So in a way, yes, I can speak for the entire community.

Like, every tag there feels generic, empty and flavourless. People have been claimoring for a Persia/Middle East DLC for years and to see Paradox drop the ball this hard feels like a punch to the stomach, not to mention that this is merely an immersion pack. Add to that the fact that this is one of the last DLCs for EU4 (if not the last) and I don't see Paradox putting much effort into the remaining tags in the Muslim world that are in a desperate need of a revamp, if at all.

So, rather than putting every last bit of effort that they could muster into making sure that they'd not disappoint with one of their last DLCs for EU4 and to make sure that it's as good as Domination, nope. They just listen to the wrong people who complained about Domination's mission tree. "IT's MiSSIOn TRee iS TOO haRd To FollOW" they said. And so, Paradox tailored this next DLC's mission trees for those newbs, casuals and the AI. It's all at the beginning of the dev diary.

Are we the players AI now? I mean, I've heard in some youtube videos that most people are NPCs so, in a way, that's not wrong.

According to the stats in the 8th anniversary EU4 trailer, multiplayer games account for only 4% of the total games played in the last two years.

This explains why SP modifications and improvements....are, well, the focus of this DLC, any DLC

 
  • 7Like
  • 2
Reactions:
Do you even play Multiplayer games? The general consensus in multiplayer lobbies is that it's not worth playing in the middle East, and not just because of the location. So in a way, yes, I can speak for the entire community.

Like, every tag there feels generic, empty and flavourless. People have been claimoring for a Persia/Middle East DLC for years and to see Paradox drop the ball this hard feels like a punch to the stomach, not to mention that this is merely an immersion pack. Add to that the fact that this is one of the last DLCs for EU4 (if not the last) and I don't see Paradox putting much effort into the remaining tags in the Muslim world that are in a desperate need of a revamp, if at all.

So, rather than putting every last bit of effort that they could muster into making sure that they'd not disappoint with one of their last DLCs for EU4 and to make sure that it's as good as Domination, nope. They just listen to the wrong people who complained about Domination's mission tree. "IT's MiSSIOn TRee iS TOO haRd To FollOW" they said. And so, Paradox tailored this next DLC's mission trees for those newbs, casuals and the AI. It's all at the beginning of the dev diary.

Are we the players AI now? I mean, I've heard in some youtube videos that most people are NPCs so, in a way, that's not wrong.
I can't speak for the multiplayer community nor do I care to play the multiplayer, but it's not like I also didn't hold the same opinion that it's not worth playing in the Middle East. That said, if I ever played multiplayer, I would play Aq Qoyunlu anyway, who, surprise, surprise, got a decent part of a dev diary yesterday which you can read literally here (as well as Qara Qoyunlu): https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...23-black-white-sheep-georgia-armenia.1600672/

If you bothered to read it (despite two muslim tags getting good stuff in a mission tree), you'd also notice at the end that next week they're doing Yemen and Arabia. You know, nations that you claim they're not going to do and yet are doing stuff with too. This is what I meant by 'putting the cart before the horse', my guy. They have not shown everything that is going to be included and you would probably be better served to wait to see what nations are going to get content and what content that is rather than getting angry that they have not YET revealed them and their content.

As for the mission trees, personally, I loved the Domination mission trees a lot and these in comparison do look a bit simpler to achieve, but, they're still more complex than some of their earlier mission trees like in Origin. Not to mention that we have not seen everything those mission trees have to offer. They literally wrote several times that they're leaving a lot of content (about half, generally, if we take them at their words) to be discovered by the players as well so we quite literally don't know what every mission entails and how hard they're to achieve. I don't think all the missions are that easy, but, we'll see. Not that simplicity is a bad thing, personally. If anything, the Middle East DLC getting somewhat easier (but still pretty powerful) mission trees would be a boon in multiplayer, wouldn't it? That is, if you beat your opponents first to that, of course. More to the point, EU4 (and all grand strategy games) are primarily singleplayer games and that is what the content has generally been designed for (though it's not like they don't pay attention to the multiplayer either considering the Mamlukes and Persia mechanics they introduced). I... don't see how it is a controversial statement that game design for a primarily singleplayer game should also encompass those who are new to a genre, not as good at it but still enjoy it, or the AI itself. That makes the AI stronger in game even if that won't matter a lot of the time to a more experienced/better player, it gives something to play with and explore for newer/less good players, AND it's still a fun experience for the experienced player overall.

In the end, though, all that aside, I don't imagine that the multiplayer scene will be all that unhappy with the content shown so far. Zlewikk, who is one of the more prominent EU4 content creators and players including being a multiplayer EU4 player seems to love all the stuff that's been shown so far. Granted, he's only one person, but, so are YOU. That's what I mean when I say that you should just speak for yourself being dissatisfied with this because even if the EU4 community as a whole wanted a Middle East DLC for years, which is true and I am one among them, not everyone's going to have the same opinion on the stuff that is made, including the multiplayer part of the community.

Also, personally, if you're so disappointed about some content in a game not being tailored to your liking that you feel actual pain from that and as a response start insulting its playerbase, I personally think you should step back from the game a bit and think about why that is the case. I think you can do better than rage at the internet - we all can, of course - which is why I'm saying what I'm saying. I could rage on and on about how Mesoamerica and the Incan nations have not gotten any content for an even longer time compared to Middle East, but what's the point of it? And if they release an Immersion pack eventually for it, should I go insanely crazy if that region isn't updated as I want it to be? I see very little point in that kind of behavior. I'll be disappointed and simply move onto doing other things instead that I think are more worth my time and money. That's my perspective at least, of course, so you can take it or leave it as you will. I am just one random stranger on the internet, after all.
 
  • 4
Reactions:
Not to mention that we have not seen everything those mission trees have to offer. They literally wrote several times that they're leaving a lot of content (about half, generally, if we take them at their words) to be discovered by the players as well so we quite literally don't know what every mission entails and how hard they're to achieve.
That is what I have been repeatedly bringing up whenever someone has a complaint that this and that isn't in their preferred nation in the King of Kings DLC, that the devs have repeatedly stated that they didn't go through all the content for the nation in the dev diary and that there is likely 40% content they didn't get to. A good example is the content on the Byzantine Empire, in which we only got to preview 10% of the events they had planned for the nation. The time to despair would be when they get through showcasing the nations in the KoK DLC and your nation isn't in it, and the second time to despair would be when the DLC comes out, and the content you want isn't there.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:
Two thoughts:

1) Armenia rework looks great! Would be a misstep if the Azjerbani predecessor nations did not receive some love, as well.

2) While I understand wanting to "course correct" and take the lessons learned from Lions and the Teutons "what if missions," it might add business value if such trees were still made but sold separately as "what if mission tree expansions." PDX could make easy increase revenue doing this, enable those players that enjoy crazy scenarios, and not disrupt players that want to stay away from "what if" games.
 
On my recent run ı made Bulgaria pronoiar and then retracted but did not inherit when ruler died. Does it still require below 15 liberty desire to inherit?
It worked for me with above 15 LD pronoiars. Did his ruler die, or yours? Because you inherit when they die. Outside of this, I can't think of anything else why it didn't work.