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Europa Universalis IV - Development Diary 3rd of October 2023 - Black & White Sheep // Georgia & Armenia

Good afternoon everyone and welcome! This week we will be covering multiple nations through the lenses of 2 Developer Diaries, one for Qara/Aq Qoyunlu and one for Georgia/Armenia in the thread below!

Embroiled in both external and internal conflicts, the Turkomans in the Middle East offer a very interesting playthrough including government mechanics, events, and now completely new mission trees, government reforms, and more! Both tags share similar mission trees, each imbued with unique branches for AQ and unique branches for QQ.

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QQ and AQ will largely share most missions, each tree granting certain diversity in key points.

Despite its smaller size compared to its Eastern neighbor, AQ starts at a much stable situation (more on that further down!). In 1444 the legendary Uzun Hasan stands as the heir to a Tribal Federation ready to spread its wings and bring the surrounding territory under its heel.

The AQ mission tree offers 31 new missions, interacting with nearly every facet of gameplay, from conquest and integration to estate interaction and events. Your first tasks would be to eradicate the last remnant of the Ayyubids in Hisn Kayfa, and rally your powerful cavalry. The former will then give rise to aspirations for expansion in every direction while the latter mission (Rally the Turkomans) will play around with the existing Tribal Allegiance mechanic and grant a bonus to province warscore cost.

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At the same time, you will be called to eradicate one of the last Roman bastions in Eastern Anatolia, Trebizond, offering a unique event reward:

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The first option of the event will grant some prosperity over time in the entire state as well as some reduction to local autonomy among other minor rewards.

Another highlight of the Aq Qoyunlu conquest path is “The House of Wisdom”. The House of Wisdom in Baghdad was a renowned center of scholarship and intellectual activity in the Islamic world. Established during the Abbasid Caliphate in the 8th and 9th centuries, it continued to flourish into later centuries, being a hub of learning, translating, and preserving ancient Greek, Persian, and Indian texts, contributing significantly to the Islamic Golden Age. Scholars from various backgrounds gathered there to engage in scholarly pursuits, making significant advances in fields like astronomy, mathematics, medicine, and philosophy. The House of Wisdom's enduring legacy lies in its role in preserving and transmitting knowledge, which later influenced the European Renaissance and the broader development of human civilization. Therefore, there will be a mission about fully restoring it:

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To wrap up the showcasing of conquest for Aq Qoyunlu, let’s take a look at “A Gunpowder Empire”. This is a term coined for empires such as the Ottomans, Safavids, and Mughals, as they used this new warfare technology to expand their territories and dominate their regions. Their military strength and control over trade routes were largely built upon their mastery of gunpowder weaponry and tactics, and Aq Qoyunlu may be able to join that group as well:

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Moving on to the internal part of the content, we will be greeted by objectives centered around an improved court, the patronization of art and literature, as well as the development of new imperial fabrics:

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Finally, let’s take a look at some more highlights before we move on to the Black Sheep:

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The Black Sheep on the Eastern border suffered a turbulent time during the middle of the 15th century. In 1444 the lands around Mesopotamia were highly autonomous and far away from the central domain in Tabriz. As a result, the lands that fell in the hands of Ispend Mirza (brother of Jahan Shah) created a thorn in the side of the government, resisting the payment of taxes and drafts, thus posing a significant threat to Jahan’s rule. We decided to represent the Emirate of Baghdad via an Estate Privilege, which increases the autonomy in select areas via a flat and a monthly amount:

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Getting rid of this privilege will be a race against time, as the autonomy of the provinces affected will be very difficult to lower - and at times it may even grow naturally over time.
Against the threat of the Ottomans to the West, not losing a single battle against this fearsome enemy will yield a powerful permanent reward:

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The defeat of the Ottomans will herald a new era of warfare by introducing Janissaries in Tabriz as well as a new Tier 1 Government:

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Unlike its Western counterpart, Qara Qoyunlu will facilitate a lot of its expansion into the lands of Persia in a different style, starting with the ‘Princes of Persia’ mission:

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The content for the Turkomans could not be complete without a reference to a very iconic place of worship. The Blue Mosque in Tabriz, also known as the Masjed-e Kabud, is a historic mosque in Iran that earned its name from the stunning blue tiles that once adorned its walls. The mosque was originally built in the 15th century during the rule of the Qara Qoyunlu dynasty and features impressive, intricate architecture with beautiful calligraphy and geometric patterns:

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Before we conclude this part of the Developer Diary, here’s some more content for these two countries:

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It should be mentioned that the Turkoman trees are designed in a non-restrictive way to allow the player any playstyle - tribal, monarchy, horde. Although the mission tree follows the historical narrative of Persian conquests and Persianization, forming Persia is just an option the player can do at the end of the tree rather than being forced to do it. This philosophy is inspired by forum and Reddit comments by people who are hoping for the ability to stay as AQ/QQ rather than having to form another tag. Lastly, the content shown here is about half of the content planned for the Turkomen, and in the interest of keeping you excited and allowing you the ability to discover the content for yourselves, I decided against fully showcasing more missions, events, etc.

Be sure to check the continuation thread below as we dive into Georgia/Armenia....
 
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This is something many players asked for. It's accurate name for that branch of Christianity. Also perhaps allowing them to mend the great schism if they own all five holly sees for their religion plus Rome and Constantinople.
So, this way both Catholic and Orthodox will become heresies witch a choice to convert?
 
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As the guy who began this thread, I'm incredibly happy to see so many of my proposals for Georgia make it into the game. I never thought this would happen, and am really pleased that there's going to be a dedicated Disaster, a mission tree, and new events.

The only thing that still seems to be lacking is the absence of the Darial Pass. There are two major passes through the Caucasus - the pass at Derbent to the East, and the Darial Pass, which would be between the provinces of Kartli and Alania in the game. The Darial Pass is the major route for invasion into Georgia from the North, and has always been the one used to do so by Russia, including in the game's timeframe. Similarly, at the height of the Georgian Empire, Georgia was able to control the province of Alania because it was through the pass.

Mountain passes are quite important to gameplay as they determine where you can send troops, so they're not just cosmetic in the way that, for example, altering borders can be sometimes. Therefore, any chance of putting it in please? Maybe you could get Trin Tragula out of retirement for one last job? :D
 
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A lot of missions will be broken, I guess.

I just wonder why it didn't had the same effect on Myaphisite when you Mend the Schizm as an Orthodox country.
I think there's a mod that mends schism between Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox. Can't remember the name but if i remember correctly it's a part of Byzantine missions. Basically it gives Myaphisit nations option to convert to Eastern Orthodoxy effectively mending that schism if it can be called that way. It was pretty cool and fun thing to do.

Edit : Also for the missions they can be adjusted to use Myaphisite religion in the case they mend the great schism.
 
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Well, if Georgia and Karabakh/Armenia are finally getting an overhaul, here's hoping that that Trebizond might get some love this update. It feels like the only one of the only nations in the region that hasn't been given content by this point.
 
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I think there's a mod that mends schism between Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox. Can't remember the name but if i remember correctly it's a part of Byzantine missions. Basically it gives Myaphisit nations option to convert to Eastern Orthodoxy effectively mending that schism if it can be called that way. It was pretty cool and fun thing to do.

Edit : Also for the missions they can be adjusted to use Myaphisite religion in the case they mend the great schism.
What if, after mending schizm, Orthodox can use Coptic Holy sites and monuments too? How about that?
 
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Then how about Catholic ones too and vice versa?
Of course. Ever since Emperor, if i'm not mistaken, Catholics can mend great schism between them and Orthodox. I don't see a problem for Catholics using either Orthodox or Miaphysit Holy Sites or their Monuments.
 
Of course. Ever since Emperor, if i'm not mistaken, Catholics can mend great schism between them and Orthodox. I don't see a problem for Catholics using either Orthodox or Miaphysit Holy Sites or their Monuments.
I remember that they've introduced such option some time ago - it even puts Moscow into a choice: either convert into Catholicism, or stay Orthodox, - but I've never seen it happen before. And what are the conditions for Catholics? I remember that controlling Constantinople is required, but what else?

And I don't think that enables the susage of respective monuments yet.
 
I remember that they've introduced such option some time ago - it even puts Moscow into a choice: either convert into Catholicism, or stay Orthodox, - but I've never seen it happen before. And what are the conditions for Catholics? I remember that controlling Constantinople is required, but what else?

And I don't think that enables the susage of respective monuments yet.
For Catholics i think requirements are that Rome needs to be in Catholic hands so you don't need to own it, and that both Constantinople and Moscow needs to be Catholic. Again you don't actually need to own either Constantinople or Moscow, they just need to be Catholic. Now of course i might be wrong with this so if anyone else knows they can jump in and correct me.
 
I'm adressing this post to the developers. It's long, but I'd really appreciate if you took the time to review it and consider its contents.

While any change to the Armenian faction is a welcome one. This one is dissapointing one I have to admit. Let me explain why:

The idea that stateless Armenian Christians in the early modern period knew or cared about the ancient Kingdom of Armenia or the pagan monarch Tigranes the Great makes no sense. Likewise, the idea that the Meliks (princes) from the remote region of Artsakh (Karabakh in the game) cared about reestablishing Greater Armenia makes even less sense. Armenian Nakharars had a couple of opportunities to reestablish the Kingdom of Armenia in the 5th, 6th and 7th centuries and they didn't do it. And Armenians as a nation were more powerfull then, than they are in the early modern period or even now. Even when the Nakharars did restore the kingdom in the 9th century under the Bagradunis, they considered it to be the restoration of the Christian Arshakuni kingdom. Not the pagan Artaxiad kingdom. So the idea that Meliks from a very remote and backwater region of Armenia would somehow reestablish (or care to reestablish) this kingdom is too far fetched.

Second, this game is set in the early modern period. Yet for some odd reason Armenian history during the early modern period was ignored in favour of Armenian history during antiquity. So what am I proposing? I'm proposing to remove all mentions of ancient Armenia. Remove any ambition to conquer a great empire, and instead make Armenia a nation that plays tall, instead of wide. Armenians merchants were famous back then and their trade was sought after by many empires. The city of Julfa was a regional trade hub before the safavids destroyed it. An independent Armenian nation (even if landlocked) would make use of international trade to strengthen itself. You could include figures like David Bek and Mkhitar Sparapet, the Armenian generals who lead the Syunik Rebellion in the early 18th century. And Israel Ori, the diplomat who served in the French Royal Army and spearheaded the Armenian liberation movement before he got killed in Russia.

My final point is about the religion. The term 'Coptic' is an ethnic one, not an ecclesiastical one. Everyone knows this. Everyone wants this changed. Yet EUIV doesn't care apparently. Many people have proposed different names. 'Miaphysite', 'Oriental', 'Anti-Chalcedonian'. Some have proposed a new religion for Armenians only. I have another proposal. All ancient churches consider themselves Catholic, Orthodox and Apostolic right? Roman Catholics got stuck with the name Catholic. The Eastern Orthodox with Orthodox. So that leaves the term Apostolic. The Armenian Church AFAIK is the only church to have the term Apostolic in its official name. But the other churches in the Oriental communion proudly call themselves Apostolic as well. So just change the name from 'Coptic' to 'Apostolic'. Problem solved. What's the issue?

So what I'm proposing in short:

- Remove mention of Ancient Armenia / Mets Hayk. (The name Mets Hayk is barely used in the modern Armenian language. The name Hayastan, has been in use since at least the 5th century.)

- Remove mentions of Tigranes the Great. Great man, but interest in him by the average Armenian joe didn't become prevalent until the 19th century.

- Remove the city of Tigranakert as a mission objective. In the Armenian language, Tigranakert is the city of Diyarbakir. And Diyarbakir was never proposed to be the capital or major city of an independent Armenian state.

- When Armenia becomes independent, don't immediatly turn it into a kingdom. It would make more sense to leave it as a principality with the opportunity to turn it into a kingdom or some type of mountain republic later.

- Make Armenia a Tall nation, not a wide nation. Kind of like a landlocked Dutch Republic. This Armenia focuses on development, repatriation and international trade and wars. Not great conquests.

- Make the Armenian mission tree focus purely on re-developing the nation from the turco-mongol devastations of decades earlier. A nation that suffered like Armenia is not going to reestablish Greater Armenia. Let alone conquer egypt and become a religious hub.

- Include military figures like David and Mkhitar Bek. Diplomatic characters like Israel Ori.

- Include the Armenian liberation movement as an event that starts in the 18th century for the AI and earlier for the player.

- Change the name 'Coptic' to 'Apostolic'

I hope this information is helpful. But I especially hope that the developers see it.
 
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Is Qara Qoyunlu still going to be Ismaili in the next patch? They really shouldn't be, while the exact religious practices of the QQ are not exactly known most sources agree that they were most likely Twelvers, I can't find any source whatsoever that describe them as Seveners (Ismaili) or even hint at the fact that they might have been Seveners, making them Shia Jafari would be the most logical option.
 
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