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Europa Universalis IV - Development Diary 3rd of October 2023 - Black & White Sheep // Georgia & Armenia

Good afternoon everyone and welcome! This week we will be covering multiple nations through the lenses of 2 Developer Diaries, one for Qara/Aq Qoyunlu and one for Georgia/Armenia in the thread below!

Embroiled in both external and internal conflicts, the Turkomans in the Middle East offer a very interesting playthrough including government mechanics, events, and now completely new mission trees, government reforms, and more! Both tags share similar mission trees, each imbued with unique branches for AQ and unique branches for QQ.

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QQ and AQ will largely share most missions, each tree granting certain diversity in key points.

Despite its smaller size compared to its Eastern neighbor, AQ starts at a much stable situation (more on that further down!). In 1444 the legendary Uzun Hasan stands as the heir to a Tribal Federation ready to spread its wings and bring the surrounding territory under its heel.

The AQ mission tree offers 31 new missions, interacting with nearly every facet of gameplay, from conquest and integration to estate interaction and events. Your first tasks would be to eradicate the last remnant of the Ayyubids in Hisn Kayfa, and rally your powerful cavalry. The former will then give rise to aspirations for expansion in every direction while the latter mission (Rally the Turkomans) will play around with the existing Tribal Allegiance mechanic and grant a bonus to province warscore cost.

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At the same time, you will be called to eradicate one of the last Roman bastions in Eastern Anatolia, Trebizond, offering a unique event reward:

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The first option of the event will grant some prosperity over time in the entire state as well as some reduction to local autonomy among other minor rewards.

Another highlight of the Aq Qoyunlu conquest path is “The House of Wisdom”. The House of Wisdom in Baghdad was a renowned center of scholarship and intellectual activity in the Islamic world. Established during the Abbasid Caliphate in the 8th and 9th centuries, it continued to flourish into later centuries, being a hub of learning, translating, and preserving ancient Greek, Persian, and Indian texts, contributing significantly to the Islamic Golden Age. Scholars from various backgrounds gathered there to engage in scholarly pursuits, making significant advances in fields like astronomy, mathematics, medicine, and philosophy. The House of Wisdom's enduring legacy lies in its role in preserving and transmitting knowledge, which later influenced the European Renaissance and the broader development of human civilization. Therefore, there will be a mission about fully restoring it:

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To wrap up the showcasing of conquest for Aq Qoyunlu, let’s take a look at “A Gunpowder Empire”. This is a term coined for empires such as the Ottomans, Safavids, and Mughals, as they used this new warfare technology to expand their territories and dominate their regions. Their military strength and control over trade routes were largely built upon their mastery of gunpowder weaponry and tactics, and Aq Qoyunlu may be able to join that group as well:

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Moving on to the internal part of the content, we will be greeted by objectives centered around an improved court, the patronization of art and literature, as well as the development of new imperial fabrics:

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Finally, let’s take a look at some more highlights before we move on to the Black Sheep:

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The Black Sheep on the Eastern border suffered a turbulent time during the middle of the 15th century. In 1444 the lands around Mesopotamia were highly autonomous and far away from the central domain in Tabriz. As a result, the lands that fell in the hands of Ispend Mirza (brother of Jahan Shah) created a thorn in the side of the government, resisting the payment of taxes and drafts, thus posing a significant threat to Jahan’s rule. We decided to represent the Emirate of Baghdad via an Estate Privilege, which increases the autonomy in select areas via a flat and a monthly amount:

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Getting rid of this privilege will be a race against time, as the autonomy of the provinces affected will be very difficult to lower - and at times it may even grow naturally over time.
Against the threat of the Ottomans to the West, not losing a single battle against this fearsome enemy will yield a powerful permanent reward:

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The defeat of the Ottomans will herald a new era of warfare by introducing Janissaries in Tabriz as well as a new Tier 1 Government:

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Unlike its Western counterpart, Qara Qoyunlu will facilitate a lot of its expansion into the lands of Persia in a different style, starting with the ‘Princes of Persia’ mission:

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The content for the Turkomans could not be complete without a reference to a very iconic place of worship. The Blue Mosque in Tabriz, also known as the Masjed-e Kabud, is a historic mosque in Iran that earned its name from the stunning blue tiles that once adorned its walls. The mosque was originally built in the 15th century during the rule of the Qara Qoyunlu dynasty and features impressive, intricate architecture with beautiful calligraphy and geometric patterns:

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Before we conclude this part of the Developer Diary, here’s some more content for these two countries:

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It should be mentioned that the Turkoman trees are designed in a non-restrictive way to allow the player any playstyle - tribal, monarchy, horde. Although the mission tree follows the historical narrative of Persian conquests and Persianization, forming Persia is just an option the player can do at the end of the tree rather than being forced to do it. This philosophy is inspired by forum and Reddit comments by people who are hoping for the ability to stay as AQ/QQ rather than having to form another tag. Lastly, the content shown here is about half of the content planned for the Turkomen, and in the interest of keeping you excited and allowing you the ability to discover the content for yourselves, I decided against fully showcasing more missions, events, etc.

Be sure to check the continuation thread below as we dive into Georgia/Armenia....
 
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They ideas are decent already. The only thing i would change is their ambition, from −20% Infantry cost to -10% regiment cost.
I don’t agree, while several of their ideas are okay. They also have the entirely useless war exhaustion decrease. Which, while being only one idea, is still worse off then most countries paradox is reworking in recent dlcs. Comparing its ideas to other weaker countries from dlc like teutons Livonia or Korea and it’s extremely outclassed.
 
Could you please separate the Armenian and Georgian cultures from the Caucasian cultural group? please..
It's a very good idea to split up the so-called caucasian culture group as Georgians, Armenians and Circassians have nothing in common in terms of the roots and languages with each other. Armenians are Indo-European, Georgians are Kartvelian and Ciraccssians form their own lingustic group together with Abkhazians Nakhs and other peoples in Dagestan. Additionally, the province of Vladikavkaz could be of Ossetian culture - a new culture in an Iranian group. Azerbaijani could be moved to the new group with Turkish and Turkmen as someone suggested in this thread.
 
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It's a very good idea to split up the so-called caucasian culture group as Georgians, Armenians and Circassians have nothing in common in terms of the roots and languages with each other. Armenians are Indo-European, Georgians are Kartvelian and Ciraccssians form their own lingustic group together with Abkhazians Nakhs and other peoples in Dagestan. Additionally, the province of Vladikavkaz could be of Ossetian culture - a new culture in an Iranian group. Azerbaijani could be moved to the new group with Turkish and Turkmen as someone suggested in this thread.
Again, there used to be Old Azeri language that was Iranian and was still spoken in 1444. The Turkic people adopted the name from Iranians. Azerbaijani is rightfully in the Iranian group.

I also disagree with splitting up Caucasian culture group, it's way too small and underrepresented to do that. Also, Nakhs (Northeast Caucasian) have nothing do with Abkhazians and Circassians (Northwest Caucasian) languages, they are unrelated and belong to different language families. But I agree that Abkhazians, Ossetians (Alans) and Nakhs should be added, but they would be OPM cultures, so its quite unlikely.
 
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It's a very good idea to split up the so-called caucasian culture group as Georgians, Armenians and Circassians have nothing in common in terms of the roots and languages with each other. Armenians are Indo-European, Georgians are Kartvelian and Ciraccssians form their own lingustic group together with Abkhazians Nakhs and other peoples in Dagestan. Additionally, the province of Vladikavkaz could be of Ossetian culture - a new culture in an Iranian group. Azerbaijani could be moved to the new group with Turkish and Turkmen as someone suggested in this thread.
If we remove Georgian and Armenian from the Caucasian culture group and put them into Byzantine group, the former will include only two cultures: Circassian and Dagestani. While it makes sense, I just don't like seeing such miniature culture groups (the state of Celtic group is painful, for example).

And if we add Osetin for Vladikavkaz, we should also add Adyghe, Kabardian, Chechen, Ingush etc. - which will be one-two provinces only without changing the map. Under better conditions we shouldn't have a unified Circassia, but the one divided between numerous mentioned tribes and peoples, existing as a Tribal Federation of sorts. And it shouldn't be Orthodox - much of the mentioned Caucasian peoples held on to their own pagan faiths at that time, and long after that.
 
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Still hope that very “Last of Romans” i.e. Trebizond mentioned in Qoyunlus missions will get its flavour as well. It could have been another way of Roman restoration and a quite fun one.
 
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Ufff, I'm a fan of Aq Qunyunlu, I noticed that its rewards are much weaker than Qara Qunyulu, I mean, -15 years of permanent nationalism is very powerful, just take humanists and you don't have to deal with rebels in the whole game .
I mean, notice that all Aq Qunyunlu rewards last 20 years, is this intentional?

On the other hand, it would be nice if Trebizonda's mission with Aq was to make them vassals (Which is even better, considering that they have a small fleet and add a level of fort to a mountain province) plus it would be history in the sense of marriage of Uzum Hazan and Theodora Great Comnena (Despina Katun) who was said to be of great beauty and Uzum Hazan was obsessed with her (And gave rise to some legends in Europe).

And speaking of this, what remains, definitely what we all want would be trees for Trebizonda, Hsin Kaifa and Teodoro, besides that I echo the person who said that there should be a formable Ayubi for Hsin Kaifa, because it is kind of strange to be When they conquered Egypt, I would say that they could do as with Burgundy and its passage to Lotharingia in that sense.

As for Theodore, something for the achievement would be nice, although I would expand the achievement to include Italy, Spain and the southern half of France, since they are historically what the Goths conquered, Hispania and southern France being the Visigoths and Italy and Provence the Ostrogoths (PS: One thing I forgot, a name change to Gothia or something like that would be nice).

As for Trebizonda, what to say, I think everyone knows what we want, a reference to Anna Komnenos would also be nice,
 
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As an Armenian who's been playing EU4 for a long time (and EU3 for a bit) I can't stress enough how much I'm looking forward to this DLC, I run Karabakh every once in a while and I'm very excited to finally be able to enjoy a proper mission tree instead of just taking on the challenge of survivng without any *helpful* bonuses.

If I may suggest to add an achievement which might possibly be among the hardest ever: "Returning the favor: Starting as Karabakh, restore the Roman Empire" (in reference to when Armenia was conquered by Persia and the Roman senate gave Tirdates III an army to go retake his homeland, a very important historical event that led to Armenia becoming the first Christian nation which greatly influenced the nation's entire history).

Thanks!
 
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As an Armenian who's been playing EU4 for a long time (and EU3 for a bit) I can't stress enough how much I'm looking forward to this DLC, I run Karabakh every once in a while and I'm very excited to finally be able to enjoy a proper mission tree instead of just taking on the challenge of survivng without any *helpful* bonuses.

If I may suggest to add an achievement which might possibly be among the hardest ever: "Returning the favor: Starting as Karabakh, restore the Roman Empire" (in reference to when Armenia was conquered by Persia and the Roman senate gave Tirdates III an army to go retake his homeland, a very important historical event that led to Armenia becoming the first Christian nation which greatly influenced the nation's entire history).

Thanks!
For an achievement its not bad. Actually it sounds fun to restore Roman empire as Karabakh/Armenia. I suggested something different. Basically the Armenian missions to be oriented not only in procreating Greater Armenia borders but also restoring RE as a reminder that RE actually have had one time Armenian dynasty that ruled from Constantinople.
 
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It's a very good idea to split up the so-called caucasian culture group as Georgians, Armenians and Circassians have nothing in common in terms of the roots and languages with each other. Armenians are Indo-European, Georgians are Kartvelian and Ciraccssians form their own lingustic group together with Abkhazians Nakhs and other peoples in Dagestan. Additionally, the province of Vladikavkaz could be of Ossetian culture - a new culture in an Iranian group. Azerbaijani could be moved to the new group with Turkish and Turkmen as someone suggested in this thread.
Language group isn't a major factor for forming culture Groups (other examples would be Basques belonging to Iberians, Estonians to Balts and Finns to Scandis), but generally, yes, Georgian and Armenian cultures being reassigned to the Byzantine Group (like it was originally, before later patches) would be logical. I mean, we have Celtic group that consists of two cultures, and the Byzantine Group isn't that large either, after Georgians and Armenians were reassigned to Caucasian Group.
I doubt that it will change, but at least Georgian can be reassigned back to the Byzantine Group (though IMHO there should be a bonus condition that if Georgia controls every Armenian cultured provinces, then Armenian should be dragged into Byzantine Group as well, at least just to avoid fugly culture map modes :p )
 
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Considering the ongoing discussion this might seem a little bit out of topic but i have a question i wanted to ask. I have checked the previous dev diaries for the upcoming patch but i have not seen any mention of any anatolian minors. Specificly, Karaman and Dulkadir (and maybe for the flavour Candar) or maybe some kind of national ideas for Ramazan and Dulkadir. Albeit i didn't check all of the forum discussions or discord etc., are there any plans to give them any kind of new mission trees/national deas? Since the change of the mission sytem, which happened ages ago, unless these minors form the Rûm they are little bit lacking. Since they were also passed in the Cradle of Civilization and it appears that you are back to the region i was just wondering. (Just for this question i have activated my forum account...)

Also if it is not a pain to do, any kind of map mode that shows the nations with the unique mission trees on the launch map might be fun to have.

Cheers.

Edit: Typo
 
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Hello! I wanted to ask about one thing, but it's not directly related to the dev diary, so please, excuse me for that.

Some time ago I wrote here about an issue where "The Prussian Confederation Revolts" event in "Prussian Confederation" disaster only triggers after 1460, which is several years after its historical counterpart and in turn also creates gameplay problems when you play as Teutons and try to overcome the disaster.

Even though the issue was planned to be resolved in the patch 1.35, sadly it stayed in the game to this day. :(
Later @Pavía explained to me in a conversation, that this change needed some extra testing time because of the gameplay implications of Prussian Confederation triggering earlier, before getting implemented, which is understandable. It was aimed for 1.35.4, but was later moved to 1.36, so there would be more time to polish it. @Pavía ensured that he will "try to get this tested it early on, so we can get this change for 1.36", which is very promising. :D

Since 1.36 was in development for some time now, I wanted to ask about the status of the change: if it is in the pipeline, but couldn't get in touch with the Developers. That is why i decided to write here, because I know that the Developers at Tinto are reading comments under Developer diaries and try to listen to the community.

So, the question is: Is the fix of "The Prussian Confederation Revolts" event date planned for the upcoming 1.36 version, and if it is, is it tested/implemented? I would be overjoyed to hear the response from member of the EU4 Developers, and I will be the happiest man alive if I get to know that the change is coming next patch.

As always, big respect for the Developers! I hope my request is reasonable, and I haven't irritated anyone (If I did, I am sorry).
I wish that this disaster included the fixed amount of provinces (all of Western Prussia area while your capital is moved to Konigsberg) instead of random amount:
Hello there!

These issues were indeed reported, and as I saw it reasonable, it got into our backlog, right. It couldn't got into the pipeline for 1.35 because we had other issues of a higher priority in which focus our QA resources.

Unfortunately, we couldn't move the issue from the backlog to the pipeline for 1.36. Apart from prioritizing the new content, we also needed to rebalance the performance of the Russian AI, as we found in our nightly automated tests that it was falling apart more than we were comfortable with. That meant that we had to adjust some other issues on the behaviour of Poland/PLC, as it was too succesful, too usually. And that's the reason behind postponing again this issue, as it could have a great impact on Poland's early game performance, as well, requiring further rebalance.

In this case, I'll ask for some more patience. We've been trying to be as open as possible with the community after the release of Leviathan, and we've also been fixing thousands of bugs as well; but Domination was massive in the amount of content we implemented, so we've tried to be smart on how to prioritize the new content, further Domination rebalance, and older issues in the patch.
It's interesting thing that you decided to add some clarification about Armenian real life politic. It's strange because in last year's russian dev diary we had no such thing. That dev diary also featured mission "Liberate Ruthenia", have no idea why.
As it has already been pointed out, we've tried to learn the lesson from that, as it came unexpected to us.

By the way, that mission had been for years in the game, but we actually changed its title, as we didn't want it to be matched with the ongoing conflict on Ukraine.
How will the David the Builder achievement work now? Will it require playing/releasing Imereti, or can it be done as Georgia?
We've already reviewed it for 1.36; I'll let @PDXBigBoss to answer it on Monday, as other questions related to the new content itself.
 
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Hello there!
Pavía, I'm not sure if you guys have been aware of this issue, but it would be great if you could take a look at the color of the Trade Nodes.

 
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i love this dlc but i hope that the devs have time to make some changes that we suggested
Hey, we always take a look at a ton of social media (forum, reddit, our official Discord server etc) for feedback. However, in many instances there are hard constraints on time etc, so while we would want to add more community suggestions, some sadly do not make the cut, but we still try our best!

I may be wrong, but the Unit Model doesn't really look like the already existing Circassian one.
It looks like Georgia will get a new Unit Pack.
Stay tuned ;)
This is fantastic! Though I have one thought-- some of the temporary modifiers are a little undertuned, considering the fact that they're temporary. Could the less powerful ones be buffed, so completing the missions really feels worth it?
There is a case to be made for mission rewards (and more specifically modifiers) being weaker than what's expected but rest assured that we always look out for feedback on which ones may need some fine tuning! Basically if too many people tell us that X modifier is too strong/weak, then there's a high chance we change it because we listen to a lot of the feedback you guys provide us. Also do not forget that bot Sheep can form other - stronger - nations!
Why would Aq Qoyunlu destroy Trabzon? They're kinship!It makes more sense to switch to vassals
How you complete the mission is up to you.

Will Albanian be finally moved into Byzantine culture group?
Is there a historical basis to this ?

@PDXBigBoss Is there an option to play as the breakway Imereti? It could work like the pirate republics or chinese warlords
No, because Imereti themselves have no content to themselves. It's a cool idea though! Hmm..
Feels like Georgia is a bit too easy now, disaster mechanics aside, any intermediate player will be easily able to dodge it.

Something that's niggled since it was added, why is Artsakh called by Turkic tagname 'Karabakh' if you're playing as Armenians? Nice it finally has at least some flavour and a mission tree now though.
And I just got a QA report that Georgia is still a bit too tough haha
Could Armenian Apostolic be split from Coptic? If Czech Hussites, Norse Paganism and Zoroastrians get represented it seems fair.
No, a new religion would sadly require too much work, events, mechanics, UI, coding and more loose ends at this point.
Request again for Timurids and Ottomans Historical Rivals at 1444 start.
Interesting...
 
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Is there a historical basis to this ?
Not really. Still makes more sense for them, rather than being in South Slavic culture group, with who they are clearly not related. But, of course, we can't have them as a separate one - the examples of Basque, Hungarian, etc. are self-evident.
No, because Imereti themselves have no content to themselves.
Samtskhe is just barebones too, then? Maybe all 3 should share missions at some point?
No, a new religion would sadly require too much work, events, mechanics, UI, coding and more loose ends at this point.
Maybe "Coptic" should be renamed into "Myaphisite" then?
 
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Stay tuned ;)
So, we were kind of speculating about this in this thread, but I've mentioned before that unlike Armenia, there's no mention of unique Government reforms for Georgia. Is this because Georgia is intended to use Byzantine Government reforms instead after it shifts its culture group? The ability to create more vassals (in this case pronoia, though it woulndn't be totally accurate, but still) would nicely reflect the Georgian state using vast network of protectorates around the kingdom. like it did before the Mongol invasions.
Also, I've been wondering if switching to the culture group could unlock certain Byzantine economic and religious missions as well, similarly to how some branches of the Russian missions are unlocked overtime, as the timeline progresses and the country's governance shifts overtime?
Samtskhe is just barebones too, then? Maybe all 3 should share missions at some point?
Frankly Georgian Minor's ultimate aim is to recreate Georgia. At best, maybe they should have something similar to French appanages, who's missions enable them to replace and recreate France easier.
 
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Maybe "Coptic" should be renamed into "Myaphisite" then?
This is something many players asked for. It's accurate name for that branch of Christianity. Also perhaps allowing them to mend the great schism if they own all five holly sees for their religion plus Rome and Constantinople.
 
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