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HoI 4 - Dev Diary: America Rework

Hello, and welcome back to another dev diary! Today we are going to talk about Freedom. Freedom from Fear. Freedom from Want. Freedom from having to vote for a presidential candidate every four years.


The vanilla US focus tree offered some interesting alternate-history scenarios, but if you wanted to play historical, you pretty much sat around doing very little until the war started. Part of this is the fundamental design problem of the US in a historical grand-strategy game: if we allow the US to freely enter the war when it has even a fraction of its historical economy, the Axis never makes it into Paris and the war ends in 1940. If we restrict the US from entering the war freely until its historical date, the US player sits around until late 1941 doing very little (there is a reason why my usual go-to scenario in HoI2 and HoI3 was “Play France until you lose, then switch to the US”).


usa_focus_devdiary.jpg



So one of the goals we had for this rework was to give the player a bit more stuff to actually do during the lead-up to the war. Making the path out of the depression a little more involved was an obvious place to start. Instead of a single national spirit, it is now three levels that give a smoother curve out of the depression. But instead of just taking three focuses in a row to do what could previously be done in one, we wanted the player to have to work a lot more to get out of the depression.


Enter the script-based Congress Mechanic. The Congress mechanic is - for now - unique to the US and simulates the shifting majorities in both houses of Congress. It ties into a lot of things that we will get into in a bit. But on a fundamental level, taking the focuses that reduce the penalties from the great depression will require you to have a majority in both houses, but will also reduce your support once you have taken it to simulate members of Congress who voted for the proposal being unwilling to support you further without getting something in return.


picture_us_congress.JPG



You can gain and lose support from random events as well as midterm and presidential elections. Generally speaking, going with the incumbent means you are more likely to lose support in Congress in the election, and if the situation is particularly dire, going with the challenger will flip support and opposition. Beyond this, a number of decisions allow you to gain support in congress, from simple lobbying to bribing members of Congress by investing in their constituencies to just regularly bribing them.


picture_us_build_factory.JPG



Besides getting out of the depression, you’ll also need to get Congress to sign off on the Selective Service Act, which is the gatekeeper focus of the army modernization branch, and the Two Ocean Navy Act, which is the gatekeeper focus for the naval branch. The amount of support you need depends on your war support (in general, you can assume that every focus with “Act” somewhere in its title ties into the Congress mechanic).


Another aspect we wanted to add was to give the US player a choice to become more active in the world earlier. As I said above, that comes with host of issues. We want it to be a viable option, but not a no-brainer. This means that there will be a number of restrictions in the “Limited Intervention” branch. First, you’ll have to have enough support in Congress to take the focus (and a lack of war support means that quite a few member of Congress will break ranks over it). Afterwards, you will have to choose between focusing your efforts on preparing to intervene in Europe or in Asia. Taking either of these focuses unlocks a number of decisions to try and build public support for an intervention. Many of these decisions are tied to events around the world - here the US is protesting the Anschluss.


picture_us_anschluss.JPG



However, there is only a small window to utilize these events. Each decision adds something that is internally called an “intervention strike” as in “three strikes and you’re out”, except in this case it’s “three strikes and we start bombing”. A generic decision allows to build support against a target if they do not have specific decisions associated with them. Finally, once a country has two strikes against them, you can petition congress to sanction an intervention, which will again require significant support (it is easier to gain a wargoal against a country that is at war, and easier still if they are in an aggressive war).


This will likely make it harder for you to pursue your other goals - so if you want to intervene in Europe on behalf of the Allies, you will most likely have to forego economic reforms, at least for a while.


The intervention mandates are also used to allow the US to intervene in the Americas if someone violates the Monroe doctrine.


Intervention in general is something you can prepare a lot better now by using war plans. Completing the focuses unlocks a decision to execute the corresponding war plan and gain a temporary bonus against a country, along with some other temporary bonuses.


us_picture_war_plan.jpg



Of course, by this point a statistical majority of you might wonder why you even bother with all this busy-work, bribing senators, cutting deals with representatives, when there is a world to be won. As promised, we also wanted to add proper alternate ideology branches for the US. As we said many months ago in the Dev Diary about South Africa, we also look to try and open up new areas of the map for warfare, to allow you to fight in different areas than trudging across the same old parts of Europe.


So we wanted to have a nice big Civil War in the US. We want tank battles south of Chicago. Naval landings in Florida. A brutal slog across the Rocky Mountains. So we decided to not just put in one civil war but two! That’s a whole 100% MORE CIVIL WAR!


You’ll have to fight a civil war in either of the alternate ideology branches. For the curious: the branches straight down from the WPA and Adjusted Compensation Act are democratic ideology branches and will be part of the free update, the branches starting with Suspend the Prosecution and America First will be part of the DLC.


In the left branch, appropriately enough, you soften up your stance towards the communists. You can do this even if you don’t intend to go fully communist, as it opens up new ways of gaining support in Congress. If you do decide to be more radical, you can desegregate the American society, which will trigger protests from the usual suspects. The protests by themselves don’t do anything, but if you decide to push harder towards communism, the protests will intensify and eventually spill over. The Unions Representation Act is another such trigger that will cause protests.


Picture_us_communists_protests.JPG



Before the civil war breaks out, there is a “Point of No Return” after which it is merely a question of time until hostilities start. In the time between the Point of No Return and the actual start of the war, you’ll get a number of events telling you how the situation develops. These events have actual effects on how your position is like at the start of the war.


For example, if an event tells you that a state has mobilized the national guard, the revolter gets a fully-equipped and quite capable division when the war starts. These events aren’t intended to make the difference between winning and losing but to give the war a bit more flavor.


Once the war starts in the communist branch, it is not quite like a regular civil war. Instead of the country and the military splitting in half, it spawns a new tag (CSA). This allows us to do a few things, like removing CSA territories as cores for the US (which means that they, for example, create resistance when conquered into). Depending on how far down you’ve gone in the communist branch, a part of the country might also declare its neutrality during the war. You can still interact with this part through decisions, but so can the other side.


picture_us_purchase_weapons.JPG



Where in other countries, a civil war is something we must be very careful with to ensure that the country is not completely crippled by the time the real war starts, here, we want ACWII to be “the war” the US gets into and which merges into the greater World War. So there are limited objectives for you after you have won the American Theater of World War II, but you can push decolonization in Asia and intervene in the Chinese Civil War, while also working to reintegrate the breakaway states.


The Civil War in the fascist branch works along similar lines. You also get a branch leading down from America First that you can use even if you don’t want to go full fascist - a sort of flirting with fascism, allowing you, for example, to investigate the opposition through the House Committee of Un-American Activities. The Voter Registration Act ensures a comfortable majority in every election, but triggers a wave of protests.


If you decide to push even further and publicly ally with the Silver Legion, you will trigger additional protests that put the country on the road to civil war. Like in the communist branch, a number of events determine what the starting position is, but the roles are reversed. Where in the communist branch, a part of the country tries to break away, in the fascist branch the country revolts against your leadership and tries to oust you from power, forcing you to fall back into a powerbase you set up in advance (you set up a powerbase in advance, right?). Parts of the country will declare in support or in opposition, leading to different front lines.


With much of the professional military on the other side, you’ll have to rely on hastily-raised militias to hold the line until you can get back on your feet. You might have to cut some deals and appeal to the locals to get them to accept that you are on their side.


picture_us_honor_confederacy.JPG



Once you have won that war, you are left with a US that is now safely fascist, which means that you are ideally poised to conquer the rest of the world. So we decided we might as well give you the focus tree to do just that. The War Powers Act lessens the stability impact of being in a war, and you can take your first steps abroad as you politely ask Canada to give you the territory between you and the Alaskan border (the event may or may not be called “Vancouver Or War!”) and politely ask Cuba to please stop being independent.


You continue in this fashion until at last you demand global hegemony and give all other majors an ultimatum to either become puppets or go to war. Along the way, you will most likely have gobbled up all the small countries that otherwise make conquering the world such a pain.


That is all for today. Next week we will be back with another look into the naval side of things.



Rejected Titles:

You will want fries with this focus tree

Making the world safe for fascism

Josh Lyman Simulator 2018

All focus trees are bigger in Texas

Communism is the right of all sentient beings

While writing this dev diary a bald eagle sat down outside the window and cried. True story.

My favourite state borders are Colorado’s

My google search history now makes me unemployable in most of the US

Fight them over here so we don’t have to fight them over there

This dev diary may contain trace amounts of political commentary

There was supposed to be a monarchist path but the Americans in the office rebelled and threw away all the tea

Team America saves the day

“Three strikes and we start bombing” would dramatically improve Baseball as a sport

https://twitter.com/alflandonlover gets the love he deserves

Actually rejected title: Make America <literally anything> Again

“Five score and two days ago our game director brought forth, upon this world, a new DLC announcement, conceived in liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all gamers like American Civil Wars.”
 
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To properly cover WWI would need more than a mod. The methods used in conducting that war and the means by which countries were knocked out of the war are too different from WWII to be well represented by simply lowering a few numbers on units and naming them for earlier models.

HOI's system also does not make a good representation for Rome, the Cold War, the Napoleonic era and so on. There is more to representing combat and warfare in different eras than tweaking a few numbers on the units.

It would be interesting to see PDX design from the ground up a game for WWI, but I seriously doubt they will ever do so. It is a matter of demographics. Interest in historical war gaming is already a niche market (hence our being inundated with sandbox and far fetched alt history to broaden overall appeal). WWI enthusiasts are a niche within a niche. It would be hard for the marketing department to justify the expense of developing such a game.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worldwar_series
 
You wouldn't even have to go that far. Mussolini already had plans for joining the war on the side of the British. The problem is, and I'm hearing this second hand and it seems totally bonkers even in context so take it with a grain of salt, that the British didn't return his calls. If they had just entertained the Italian diplomats for five minutes they could have had Fascist Italy joining the war on the side of the Allies from the get go, theoretically changing the course of the whole war and public discourse for the next hundred years. . . . Theoretically. I mean, these are the Italians we're talking about. Their joining the war might have resulted in the Moscow-Berlin Axis forming IRL because bigger Allies would make Hitler search for friends, which would have meant a conflict that would have reduced half the world to ash even more than it already did. Then again, perhaps not even they could screw up that badly.

Though, in a more on topic fashion, that's a pretty plausible scenario resulting from one small detail being changed. Kind of like how the planned coup against Hitler should the French have opposed militarizing the Rhineland formed the basis of Germany's monarchist paths. I don't know if the scenarios for the US have the same level of plausibility.
Indeed, I feel like the Fascist path for the US should start with opposition to the New Deal's policies, and escalate based on player choices. For the Communist path, it should start off similarly, but with the player taking the Pro-Deal faction and using the uprising as an opportunity to seize power and push a more radical agenda. Something like that... I was always terrible at explaining things.
 
FWIW, I don't think this is a good path to proceed with. It seems the rationale is largely based on some players becoming "bored" until the U.S. enters the conflict, so "let's liven things up a bit." However, from what I gather, these manufactured events are extremely far fetched and unlikely based on the situation in the U.S. in 1936. What's next? Aliens landing on the White House lawn because some younger millennials want even more excitement for the U.S. in 1939?

I think this is the wrong path, and the game is going to suffer because of it. So much could be done in the historical context during this period, but that takes having an attention span longer than a gnat to appreciate.

Regards,
Feltan
I even saw a game where Germany won the war. Doesn't get more far fetched than that.
 
We are playing with the idea of giving them the US focus tree but with the fascist path pre-selected.
Does that mean if Germany does Oppose Hitler, the Hitler side will get the German Tree with Remilitarize the Rhineland auto completed?
 
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As an American this developer diary was a major let down in majority of ways. Not withstanding the Congress and intervention decisions, the focus tree is utter fantasy of the time period. Communism wouldn't take hold for along time and fascism was at best .1% of population supporting mostly due to heritage until German sabators attacked the USA in many ways from 1928-1941. Making a focus tree plausible is one thing, fantasy just shows that there is little regard for nation or Its history.

Secondly, fact Congress doesn't have any real meaning other than values. We Americans that are veterans gave our lives/bodies/minds to give people rights and defend our Constitution from all enemies foreign and domestic. Do you really think veterans would allow the USA to become anything less than what it lawfully shall be?

Thirdly, historically there was much more that coulda been added but instead ignored. Also I appreciate the statehoods being added, but what about a actual mechanic to show how hard it really is?

Fourth, the USA was and still is a powerhouse economically, how about reflecting that more in game.

Fifthly, this expansion woulda been great to add a economy that fed back into money and upkeep costs of buildings/units(help with lag I bet and late game play throughs). Instead you all went full bore a historic in focus tree and made a actual American gamer wonder why you didn't use more interesting facts... Ie after v-j day, 246k USD was taken from four states and millions of jobs lost from wartime contracts, thus population growths were reversed for over ten years while in span of 3 years population quadrupled.

Many other things but I'm getting tired, may update later... Also lexington class bc, is same as lexington class aircraft carriers due to Washington treaty(a mechanic you all have neglected in this version).
 
Excellent work fellas the tree and new mechanics look amazing! Keep up the good work and The South WILL Rise Again!
 
As an American this developer diary was a major let down in majority of ways. Not withstanding the Congress and intervention decisions, the focus tree is utter fantasy of the time period. Communism wouldn't take hold for along time and fascism was at best .1% of population supporting mostly due to heritage until German sabators attacked the USA in many ways from 1928-1941. Making a focus tree plausible is one thing, fantasy just shows that there is little regard for nation or Its history.

Secondly, fact Congress doesn't have any real meaning other than values. We Americans that are veterans gave our lives/bodies/minds to give people rights and defend our Constitution from all enemies foreign and domestic. Do you really think veterans would allow the USA to become anything less than what it lawfully shall be?

Thirdly, historically there was much more that coulda been added but instead ignored. Also I appreciate the statehoods being added, but what about a actual mechanic to show how hard it really is?

Fourth, the USA was and still is a powerhouse economically, how about reflecting that more in game.

Fifthly, this expansion woulda been great to add a economy that fed back into money and upkeep costs of buildings/units(help with lag I bet and late game play throughs). Instead you all went full bore a historic in focus tree and made a actual American gamer wonder why you didn't use more interesting facts... Ie after v-j day, 246k USD was taken from four states and millions of jobs lost from wartime contracts, thus population growths were reversed for over ten years while in span of 3 years population quadrupled.

Many other things but I'm getting tired, may update later... Also lexington class bc, is same as lexington class aircraft carriers due to Washington treaty(a mechanic you all have neglected in this version).
Research how possible it was for Leon Trotsky to preform a coup in the USSR, then look at the fact that you can actually do that in-game, and then you have your answer as to why they go so for out. Even the near impossible is still a possibility that they can use for content that is interesting to the player.
 
Well to paraphrase Clausewitz: "War is a continuation of politics by other means". Although HOI series is about WW2 it is not (in my humble opinion) bad that they expand upon a game. I look forward to their rework of politics in the future.
However, a civil war is not an expansion is it? We have an American civil war now.
The civil war which is supposed to make me majorly excited I can do now, today, and never do. When MtG is released I'm supposed to be able to join the war in any year. I can do that now with ~ allowdiplo.
All this talk about politics is just fluff. It is just the German mefo bills reincarnated. The main theme that I kept reading paragraph after paragraph is; click, click and click some more. The choice of a civil war path is just plain boring IMHO. All this clicking for voting and PP spending does not get me amped up in any way shape or form to play America.
I'm sorry I just don't like anything about this. I just don't see anything at all enticing or exciting about this. When it is all boiled down, I'm just going to be clicking and clicking and clicking to do the exact same things I can do today which I don't do as playing America is too boring for me. IMHO all this is going to do is replace doing nothing until 12/7/1941 to adding a few dozen clicks until 12/7/1941.
Sorry but much like acclimatization this too is another swing and a miss. I'll still buy it because it is Podcat and the team and all but thus far MtG does not get my heart racing at all. Laying mines & another civil war........ just not feeling it
 
War Plan White is already used for war against the USSR

Quite weird as it was designed to deal with internal uprising :

"War Plan White :
Dealt with a domestic uprising in the US, and later evolved to Operation Garden Plot, the general US military plan for civil disturbances and peaceful protests. Parts of War Plan White were used to deal with the Bonus Expeditionary Force in 1932. Communist insurgents were considered the most likely threat by the authors of War Plan White."
 
We are playing with the idea of giving them the US focus tree but with the fascist path pre-selected.

Could you make this for all civilwars, because communist Japan always lose

This. If it's possible for the new US tree, it should be possible for the other trees that include a civil war. It's immersion breaking when Hirohito or Hitler just decide that since they fought a civil war they are done with their geopolitical aims.

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Also, I think it would be more accurate that instead of a massive shift to communism or fascism, it should be socialist democratic ideals (for the left) and populism with nationalistic tendencies (for the right). If you're going to have the US have the political depth as-is, give the option to lean towards communism or fascism without going full bore. Then, if you lean too hard, you end up in a civil war.

The main ideologies of the US should be democratic (self-explanatory) and populist (non-aligned, and a much smaller percentage). If you stay democratic, little would change, but if you decide either more extreme path, one of those two would take primary position with the more extreme ideologies (communism/fascism) in a minority but influential role.

Maybe give a NS similar to the Japanese inter-service rivalry, where the harder you lean towards the extremes, the more you unlock as far as abilities of the ideological direction (i.e. puppeting countries for the left; lowered WT requirements for the right) and you gain relationship bonuses with countries following the respective ideologies. But at the same time you lose some of the benefits the of the primary ideology (i.e. guarantees no longer reduce world tension or reduce it less as a strongly socialist democracy; wt impacts are not as reduced for a strongly fascist populist state) and you have lowered relationships with countries that support your primary ideology (i.e. a hard left leaning democracy will not be well liked by democratic countries, and a hard right populist state would have poor favor with major non-aligned countries) .

The NS could even be influenced by ideology popularity within the country, leading to ideology boosting either forcing a civil war (or expediting it) or ideology boosting stabilizing a USA on a collision course with conflict.

I also feel like that should give decisions to majors of the minor ideology (communism or fascism) to influence different things within the USA, the closer it comes to destabilization. Such as the USSR or Germany being able to send volunteers and supplies (in the form of manpower and equipment) -prior- to a civil war, thus bolstering the side in revolt out of the gate.
 
Excellent work fellas the tree and new mechanics look amazing! Keep up the good work and The South WILL Rise Again!
But not, it seems, in any meaningful sense, it doesn't sound like you'd want to actually play as them.
 
This. If it's possible for the new US tree, it should be possible for the other trees that include a civil war. It's immersion breaking when Hirohito or Hitler just decide that since they fought a civil war they are done with their geopolitical aims.

----

Also, I think it would be more accurate that instead of a massive shift to communism or fascism, it should be socialist democratic ideals (for the left) and populism with nationalistic tendencies (for the right). If you're going to have the US have the political depth as-is, give the option to lean towards communism or fascism without going full bore. Then, if you lean too hard, you end up in a civil war.

The main ideologies of the US should be democratic (self-explanatory) and populist (non-aligned, and a much smaller percentage). If you stay democratic, little would change, but if you decide either more extreme path, one of those two would take primary position with the more extreme ideologies (communism/fascism) in a minority but influential role.

Maybe give a NS similar to the Japanese inter-service rivalry, where the harder you lean towards the extremes, the more you unlock as far as abilities of the ideological direction (i.e. puppeting countries for the left; lowered WT requirements for the right) and you gain relationship bonuses with countries following the respective ideologies. But at the same time you lose some of the benefits the of the primary ideology (i.e. guarantees no longer reduce world tension or reduce it less as a strongly socialist democracy; wt impacts are not as reduced for a strongly fascist populist state) and you have lowered relationships with countries that support your primary ideology (i.e. a hard left leaning democracy will not be well liked by democratic countries, and a hard right populist state would have poor favor with major non-aligned countries) .

The NS could even be influenced by ideology popularity within the country, leading to ideology boosting either forcing a civil war (or expediting it) or ideology boosting stabilizing a USA on a collision course with conflict.

I also feel like that should give decisions to majors of the minor ideology (communism or fascism) to influence different things within the USA, the closer it comes to destabilization. Such as the USSR or Germany being able to send volunteers and supplies (in the form of manpower and equipment) -prior- to a civil war, thus bolstering the side in revolt out of the gate.
It's perhaps worth noting that the USA specifically has a "Democratic Socialism" focus (which is interesting, because it implies a contrast with the "Democratic Centralism" of the USSR, whose line Earl Browder (the Communist leader for the USA unless he's being replaced) toed historically) in its Communist tree and will still have elections, even if it changes ideology (though it's unclear if it will have actual elections with candidate choices or just generic election events).
 
Quite weird as it was designed to deal with internal uprising :

"War Plan White :
Dealt with a domestic uprising in the US, and later evolved to Operation Garden Plot, the general US military plan for civil disturbances and peaceful protests. Parts of War Plan White were used to deal with the Bonus Expeditionary Force in 1932. Communist insurgents were considered the most likely threat by the authors of War Plan White."
I'm aware of that - I think Paradox kind of extrapolated it on the assumption that a War Plan White scenario of the communist uprising variety would almost certainly involve USSR backing and eventually war with the USSR.
 
It's perhaps worth noting that the USA specifically has a "Democratic Socialism" focus (which is interesting, because it implies a contrast with the "Democratic Centralism" of the USSR, whose line Earl Browder (the Communist leader for the USA unless he's being replaced) toed historically) in its Communist tree and will still have elections, even if it changes ideology (though it's unclear if it will have actual elections with candidate choices or just generic election events).
Well, democratic socialism is part of the democracy ideology group, whereas Browder is the communist leader for the US, so it seems likely they will be mutually exclusive.

I suspect democratic socialism is a sort of New Deal +++ type thing?
 
Well, democratic socialism is part of the democracy ideology group, whereas Browder is the communist leader for the US, so it seems likely they will be mutually exclusive.

I suspect democratic socialism is a sort of New Deal +++ type thing?
There's actually kind of a weird language thing here. Up until about WWI, social democracy (the in-game "socialism" sub-ideology) was a reformist communist ideology, which sought to use the electoral process and existing state apparatus to remove capitalist elements and create a communist economy. After many social democrats fell in line with their nations in WWI, it shifted towards the modern form, whereby the goal is to "humanize" capitalism by strict regulation and state control of vital industries, but not change the fundamental economic structure. Democratic socialism was then coined to essentially mean what social democracy had previously meant.

So presumably, this means that rather than violently uprooting the entire governmental structure (indeed, in the communist route, the civil war comes from right-wing elements launching a coup before the really far-left stuff happens) and putting the capitalists against the wall, or at least in jail, a communist majority the House and Senate plus control of the Presidency (and possibly some court packing) is used to push through reforms that radically reshape the economy, likely including nationalizing entire industries or incentivizing restructuring businesses into worker's coops and establishing worker's councils (and perhaps not dismantling them shortly after like the USSR did).
 
@balmung60

Sure, but my point was that judging by where that focus is placed, it looks to be part of a democratic/decolonization path - similar to what the new UK tree has.

That doesn't look like a "go communist" branch to me, although this US tree is quite confusing in that aside from the initial two options at the top of the tree I'm not sure what is supposed to be mutually exclusive and what isn't.