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HOI4 Dev Diary - A New Germany

Hello everyone, and welcome to a new dev diary for the 1.5 “Cornflakes” update and the as-yet unannounced accompanying DLC.

For those of you who missed my introduction, I’ll briefly introduce myself. My name is Drikus and, after working briefly on DOD to help out the Content Designers on HOI4 back then, I re-joined the team in the summer to work on the next expansion, working with @Archangel85 and @Havebeard on all that CD goodness. Today I’ll be talking about some of the stuff we’ve been busy with since then.

Ever since release it’s become clear that the fanbase's interest in alternate history is far greater than we anticipated. Unfortunately, many of our focus trees for major powers are somewhat lacking in that regard, and it's something we want to change. So, while we will naturally be adding some new focus trees, this time around we will also be revamping two major nations. If this proves popular we plan to keep doing this in future expansions and eventually have all the majors with more options. For now, though, we figured a good start would be the most popular nation in HOI4: Germany!

In the next DLC, Germany will have its focus tree updated to bring it more in line with the new trees of minor nations, especially in terms of alternate history options. Furthermore, even players who do not buy the DLC will see some of these changes. For instance, we made some effort to flesh out the industrial part of the German tree. Initially only being a quick path of 4 focuses, it has now been expanded into a full 16-focus monstrosity, with paths leading into more fortification focuses, more domestic industrial focuses, and more focuses dealing with the ‘economic vassalization’ of Hungary and Romania and other areas of Europe. As a bonus, the 5th research slot is now accessible somewhat earlier, and no longer requires Air Innovations II. These changes do affect industrial balance somewhat, and we will go into how we handle that at the very end of the diary.

Germany Industry.PNG


All of the abovementioned will be free in the 1.5 “Cornflakes” update. What comes next, however, will be part of the DLC.

Use the full tree at the end of this dev diary to follow along. :)

Alternate history paths for Germany beg the question of when and how Hitler could have been stopped. These questions are very controversial, and there usually isn’t much consensus. We, however, have elected to explore the possibility of a concerted Wehrmacht opposition to Hitler, sparked by the Rhineland remilitarization.

Germany Civil War.PNG


A new path has been added, mutually exclusive with the Rhineland focus. It sparks a civil war led by the legendary August von Mackensen. Once won, the path splits, allowing the player to choose between reviving the old Kaiserreich (renaming the country to “German Empire”) and lifting Kaiser Wilhelm II’s exile in the Netherlands, or reinstating democratic elections and establishing a constitutional monarchy as a ‘compromise’ for the rather royalist (and powerful) Wehrmacht officers. In this path, Wilhelm II’s son will take the throne as Wilhelm III as a figurehead. In addition, there is a small 4-focus shared path focusing on the rebuilding of Germany after the Civil War, leading up to the German continental role as a “Bulwark against Bolshevism”.

Germany von Mackensen.PNG

Who wouldn’t want this guy leading their country?

In the Imperial branch, the player now gets the choice of either avenging the Great War, or letting bygones be bygones and focusing on the Communist threat. The former leads to Germany once again asserting its right of a ‘place in the sun’ (bullying China or Japan for the return of Tsingtao), focusing heavily on rebuilding its High Seas Fleet to challenge Britain (including some nice bonuses to battleship production and research), and then taking the fight to the British and French for their colonies. To this end, a new very powerful late-game focus has been added that will flip a significant amount of the country’s military production to naval production, in case the Soviet Union has been defeated and the player wishes to focus on the West (also available to fascists, if the player owns the DLC). The branch also enables the recreation of the Central powers via stimulating imperial sentiment in the Austro-Hungarian successor states and the assassination of Mussolini in favor of King Victor Emmanuel III.

Germany Wilhelm II.PNG

Can never have enough Pickelhaube...

The second Imperial path focuses on forgiving the British and giving up all dreams of an Imperial Navy. In return for accepting British naval supremacy, it is possible to form an alliance with them and stand together against the threat of Communism all over Europe. A punitive war with (Communist) France over Alsace-Lorraine can lead to an expulsion of the republicans from Iberia, as well as eventually taking the war directly to the Soviets, themselves. I minor shared branch, available for both the British alliance and the colonial route, allows for Germany to protect its eastern borders, retaking Memel, trading Danzig for military guarantees against the Soviets, and aiding the Baltics and the Finns with guarantees and some military support.

Germany Tsingtao.PNG

Can you taste that sweet Tsingtao beer? Ahhh, come to fatherland...

The Democratic path involves some sneaky diplomatic maneuvering, scaring the other nations in Europe into your sphere of influence by speaking up strongly against the Soviets and demonizing them. This leads to creating a Central European Alliance, in which most minor nations in Europe can be invited through various focuses, allowing for democratic Germany to challenge the historic French continental leadership role by creating its own power block. This course of action will likely result in the Soviet Union posturing threateningly, though, and gaining various bonuses to prepare them against what they perceive to be a threat to their sphere of influence. The end result of this mutual and intentional escalation is likely that it will not be possible to invite all nations you could potentially invite before the Soviets invade them. Eventually, Germany can take the fight to the Soviets, leading Europe in a war against the source of communism. In addition, it is possible for Democratic Germany to get a 6th research slot, and to strengthen their alliance through tech sharing and other cooperation.

Germany Democratic.PNG

Unleash the Swarm!

In addition, we have adjusted focuses like “Operation Weserübung” to give the player better control over the timetable of their invasions once the ball starts rolling. We’ve slightly buffed the naval parts of the core tree, adding an additional naval build-up focus or two, and adding some dockyards to Plan Z. In light of the significant improvements to Germany’s economic build-up in the new industrial tree, we are also revisiting the start-of-game balance of the nation. The intention is to make Germany initially weaker, but also quicker in building up, especially before any war has broken out. To that end, we have added a new idea upon startup. MEFO Bills will reduce the consumer goods by 20% (resulting in virtually no consumer good requirements at all), but have to be extended every three months. The price of extending these will progressively increase, as will the penalty that must be paid if these are not extended. Paying off these bills can be delayed by going to war, in which case the payment will be deferred until after the war’s conclusion (so be sure you can afford it by that point!). And finally, just as with the industrial segment of the tree, everything that was mentioned in this paragraph will be available without owning the DLC.

Germany MEFO.png


And finally, in its full glory:

Germany_tree.jpg


Don’t forget to check out the World War Wednesday stream later today, where @Da9L and @podcat will go through this dev diary while the rest of us get our asses handed to us by the Allies in South America. We look forward to showing you more cool stuff next week! :)
 
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But if you are claiming that the German Empire was a de facto successor to the HRE, with claim to former HRE lands, you can't get past heraldic continuity, because the HRE was by very definition a heraldic rather than a cultural entity. That is the reason why they never went out and put claim on all prior HRE lands. A "Großdeutsche Lösung" under Prussian leadership would likely have led to a German Empire which would have included the German speaking lands of Austria proper, but not The Kingdoms of Bohemia, Croatia, Hungary, and so on.
What does any of this actually have to due with the game at this point???
 
There was not much point in having focus trees at all without strong support for alternate historical paths. The game still felt very much on rails even with the historical option disabled. Sure, there was some occasional odd behavior but it was usually implausible consequences of flawed trees interacting with each other rather than plausible natural developments. But restricting the game to specific behavior paths on rails was also not very interesting. Creating new alternate paths is good but there still seems to be strong rails to keep within an expected scripted series of events.

A larger problem with the update work revealed so far though is that certain glaring flaws in the game mechanics remain. Some of these have been addressed in part by previous updates or community mods but many are still prominent in the game. The frustrating part is that some of these could be addressed with relatively little development time spent on them, if only they were made a priority. Some things are being fixed but some other things are not and it is frustrating to see them still in the game after so much time.
 
But if you are claiming that the German Empire was a de facto successor to the HRE, with claim to former HRE lands, you can't get past heraldic continuity, because the HRE was by very definition a heraldic rather than a cultural entity. That is the reason why they never went out and put claim on all prior HRE lands. A "Großdeutsche Lösung" under Prussian leadership would likely have led to a German Empire which would have included the German speaking lands of Austria proper, but not The Kingdoms of Bohemia, Croatia, Hungary, and so on.
We are derailing the thread here way too much.
A successor state isn`t merely the reenactment of the previous state. The title of HRE or of King of Germany weren`t in use.
The Prussians had those land in their hands, they created the German Empire and the rest is history.

The average German didn`t give a crap about heraldry in the 20th century.

German Austria voted to unite with what was then Weimar Germany in 1919, all I want is an option for Austria, at the very least, to be united with imperial or democratic Germany based on self-determination.
 
German Austria voted to unite with what was then Weimar Germany in 1919, all I want is an option for Austria, at the very least, to be united with imperial or democratic Germany based on self-determination.

I would be in favor of that. This actually would make a lot of sense. I thought you were advocating a means to incorporate all former HRE lands as monarchist Germany, like Bohemia and such.
 
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I would be in favor of that. This atually would make a lot of sense. I thought you were advocating a means to incorporate all former HRE lands as monarchist Germany, like Bohemia and such.
Hack no, all of Bohemia is too much and the Czechs didn`t want to be part of Germany.

Maybe, maybe, Sudetenlands also but that should have some penalties and it must be well thought.

So no whole Czechia, Slovenia or Littoral.
 
You can bend the knee and accept UK naval supremacy, there is room for a lot of things in that tree.
Letting imperial or democratic Germany get those two isn`t anything game breaking.
Bu those are not the expansionistic paths for imperial germany, In fact with there are only two expanionistic focuses on those trees, retaking alsace and lorraine which is only if France is communist and getting Danzig back which is about getting back west Prussia which is the kingdom from which Germany was formed, the Kaiser was still officially the king of Prussia, its also about making east Prussia not an enclave.

If you want something else then just fabricate a claim and attack them. O rleave them outside you defefenc eblock wait for the soviets to conquer them and ehm "liberate" them from the soviets.
The "Kingdom of Germany" is by no means synonymous with the "Holy Roman Empire", though. If anything, it is even more archaic than the HRE, and the term itself phased out of being used at all past the 12th century.

The reason for the German Empire being called an "empire" ("Reich") was not to establish a continuity to the old Holy Roman Empire, but to imply a rulership over a culturally coherent German domain. So in a sense, it does the exact opposite of implying a claim to non-German lands. Bismarck's remark about the German Empire being "saturated" after the acquisition of Alsace-Lorraine further reinforces this notion.

Aside from all that, there is still no way to plausibly claim that the German Empire was the successor of the HRE. As others pointed out, the last HRE emperor was an Austrian Habsburg archduke, and the von Habsburgs had been emperors ever since the 15th century. The Hohenzollerns had not even a slight claim or even connection to this title.
That's all nice and well for the use of Reich, but it does not explain why the monarch of a united german was called a Kaiser. I mean ok some of his new vassals were kings but he could have been Hochkönig, oder Grosskönig, but he chose to be Kaiser. This coupled with the protests from parts of northern germany when the last holy roman kaiser abolished the empire about how he had no right to do that adds up to them actually being intrested in the title.
 
I have an Idea, why not make the starting date at 1933 instead of 1936 year? I think it give chance for more alternative history options. Example when the year 1934 arrives when hitler elected as the leader of germany, would be awesome if you play as germany and then you have the option to go with Communists instead of hitler, and join USSR's commitern alliance instead.
 
I have an Idea, why not make the starting date at 1933 instead of 1936 year? I think it give chance for more alternative history options. Example when the year 1934 arrives when hitler elected as the leader of germany, would be awesome if you play as germany and then you have the option to go with Communists instead of hitler, and join USSR's commitern alliance instead.
1933 provides a lot more plausible alternate history options but moving the game back 3 years would require a lot of work. I'm pretty sure the developers said they will not introduce a new start date. They have enough trouble handling 1936 and 1939.
 
I'm more worried with the "10% chances of Oppose Hitler ever happening with historical focus off". Maybe you should let the players chose the level of alt-his they want for the AI, ranging from 10 to 50%. Maybe with separate scales for majors and minors.

I think it works so that at the beginning of each ahistorical game there is a number rolled which corresponds to the ahistoricity factor of the game and this is stored as ai_irrationality. So that some games will be semi-historical with only the order of focuses changed while some will be really alt-history including e.g. fascist France, separatist Italy, Soviet civil war and things like that.

So probably you can mod this behaviour to always have semi-historical or more hardcore alt-history games.
 
I have an Idea, why not make the starting date at 1933 instead of 1936 year? I think it give chance for more alternative history options. Example when the year 1934 arrives when hitler elected as the leader of germany, would be awesome if you play as germany and then you have the option to go with Communists instead of hitler, and join USSR's commitern alliance instead.
Simple. HoI always was wargame about Second War II.
Making game about 1933 should be Grand Politics game (which I appreciate, actually), but it really don't fit HoI framework. They had Victoria for that, and I hope we would see Vic3.
 
Simple. HoI always was wargame about Second War II.
Making game about 1933 should be Grand Politics game (which I appreciate, actually), but it really don't fit HoI framework. They had Victoria for that, and I hope we would see Vic3.

But the questions is, does victoria games have that Ideology system?
 
By Ideologies I mean Democracy, Communism, fascism, etc...
Kind of.
There are ideologies (Conservatism, Socialism and Liberalism would cover Democracy part), and Governments, based on political structure defined by laws.
 
Bu those are not the expansionistic paths for imperial germany, In fact with there are only two expanionistic focuses on those trees, retaking alsace and lorraine which is only if France is communist and getting Danzig back which is about getting back west Prussia which is the kingdom from which Germany was formed, the Kaiser was still officially the king of Prussia, its also about making east Prussia not an enclave.
As far as I see democratic Germany also has access to Danzig for guarantees or I`m misreading the tree ?