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HOI4 Dev Diary - Armored Cars - The new horsey boys!

Hi everyone and welcome to another dev diary. The team is working hard towards PdxCon that is coming up next week and we are looking forward to pretzels, beer, and of course meeting you guys!

Today we will be talking about Armored Cars! I have often been asked why HOI4 doesn't have them, and today you get to find out why now is the time time :)

Resistance Suppression
Part of the reason we are finally adding armored cars is that they go hand in hand with resistance suppression. Since its inception, the armored car has been a useful tool against lightly armed and armored opponents. As explained previously, Garrisons will work as a shield against resistance activity. If adequate, the garrison will absorb the vast amount of resistance attacks that would otherwise sabotage industry or resource extraction. Armored vehicles will be especially suited to this role as hardness will give damage reduction to attacks made by the resistance.

In addition to being more resilient and preserving manpower, armored cars will come with a higher suppression stat and a better ratio of suppression to deployed manpower. Armored cars will generally not be as protective as light tanks, but will have a great amount of manpower protection for their cost.

All of these things combine to make armored cars a good option for resistance suppression when manpower is more of a concern than some extra production cost. Horses will still have an edge when it comes to suppression vs production cost, however.
  • Hardness to prevent losses
  • High suppression value
  • Cheap production cost compared to other armored vehicles
  • Higher cost still than just horseboys

Main battalion Combat Role

Fighting on the frontlines as the main battle force is not a typical role for an armored car. In HoI4 it will be no different. In most situations, the armored car will be outclassed or simply not appropriate for the terrain. However, in a few cases, armored cars should work fairly well as main battle units.

In WW2 armored cars saw a good deal of combat in the deserts of Northern Africa and the Middle East. Their decreased supply needs, ability to move quickly in desert environments, and excellent capability in fighting poorly equipped enemies made them perform rather well in those theaters.

In HoI4, armored cars will work similarly. They will provide increased protection and breakthrough over say motorized or infantry while coming cheaper than light tanks. They will also be the fastest land unit in the game in the right terrain. These factors should make them dangerous opponents in secondary and tertiary theaters of combat.

upload_2019-10-9_15-31-29.png



Combat and Intel
We have split the recon support company into several now so that it can be tailored to the division type you have, and the speed it needs to move at because now the speed on the recon company will be limiting the whole division. Meaning that if you scout your trucks with cavalry they will need to move at cavalry speed.
We have:
  • Cavalry Recon Detachment - regular horsey boys you are used to. Cheap, but not that fast.
  • Motorized Recon Company - Motorized, so jeeps and light vehicles. Fast but weak
  • Light Armored Recon Company - Armored cars
  • Armored Recon Company - Light tanks
Armored cars is a good sweet spot of capability, speed and armor while light tanks help keep your hardness and armor up in tougher divisions.

Recon companies give you an edge when picking tactics in combat, and that remains the same. We have on the other hand been rebalancing tactics to make recon more worthwhile. Tactics are now rerolled twice as often and we have lowered the frequency of certain phases like close combat quite a bit (unless fighting in urban terrain).

Recon companies now also do one more thing, they let you generate more intel in combat. More intel you say? What is this? As part of this update we will be redoing how intel works, but we will be going into that in detail in the future. For now all I can say is that there will be several ways to acquire intel (where fighting is one) and that relative intel will be replacing the straight up combat bonus from having crypto techs.

Armored cars looks really cool, so here are some renders for the new models for you to enjoy:
renders_small.jpg


Ingame tech wise armored cars depend on motorized, so to use the recon companies you need both that and to have unlocked the recon support companies.

image (31).png


Armored cars will be coming with the DLC while basic intel changes and the other recon companies are available for all with the ‘Husky’ update. Next week is PdxCon and we are also moving offices, so I’ve set my alarm clock on “Maximum chaos!” but I think we should be able to give you a bit of an update diary anyways :) Seeya then!
 
The recon choice is hardly a choice when there's only one obvious best choice for each division type (speed restriction).

That's in combat yes, but they give a more accessible option for minors that can't afford to use Light Tanks as garrisons. Actually, I would love to try using them in China as Nationalist China
 
A neat addition, I welcome it.

Simultaneously I'm skeptical that they'll be of any real use beyond suppression templates. Their already low hardness makes me inclined to believe that their utility in combat will be severely limited after the year 1939.

I'm not very knowledgeable about WW2 military equipment and how it was used, but wouldn't this also mostly be historical? Armored cars' main use would indeed seem to be in recon companies and suppression. That said I'm sure I'll make use of these a bit when 'roleplaying' a country, and who knows; if their production cost is reasonable enough it may not simply be viable, but desirable for more industrially strapped countries to make use of them more broadly, perhaps even in a setting like the Spanish Civil War.

I agree with what others have said about research becoming more problematic. Naval research times especially have become quite bloated and it's really not a good idea for any country who doesn't have a big navy in the first place(Japan, US, UK, Italy) to even invest at all in naval techs beyond submarines and mines. If you want to play a more minor country, or even as a less nautically inclined Major(Germany, France) construct some destroyers to supplement your allies, the research cost is so tremendous that it's just not really worth it. You're better served by just spamming planes. Partially I blame the huge research cost of depth charges, but even if you write that off, you still have the hull, up to date cannons, up to date torpedoes, and possibly radar. This bloats the research time needed for a simple destroyer far beyond what it was in 1.5. Arguably, it is historical, yet simultaneously, it is unfun and not keeping in line with the design of the rest of the game. Tweaking research speed and research times could be a solution, but it is seeming more like an overhaul of technology itself is desirable.
 
Nice. Would be cool if urban areas turned to rubble after a lot of bombing/fighting. Also, to make historically accurate Divisions the 5 support company limit needs to be lifted. Maybe a game rule option.
 
I actually wonder if it would be ok very every country, including minors, to get an extra research slot that is no matter what, relegated to Naval research. Might bring more naval battles to teh game perhaps?
 
This is a little ridiculous... The game is more fun when each of the major sides has a chance to win, and frankly could possibly have happened if a certain number of things occurred in a different manner. Something utterly impossible like a Communist takeover in Japan is different, as it would require a complete transformation of Japanese society.

“I’m perfectly fine with this breaking from historical plausibility due to fun, but this other one also made for fun? No way!”
 
Interesting. Looks like armored cars will function not only as suppression units, but also as a midpoint in between cavalry/motorized and tanks. That last part should be really helpful to countries that don't usually have the resources or factories to mass-produce tanks, like China or some of the South American countires.
 
“I’m perfectly fine with this breaking from historical plausibility due to fun, but this other one also made for fun? No way!”
What is so fun about making Japan Communist? Frankly, it doesn't really even impact my gameplay too much- I still go for an East Asian conquest spree.
 
What is so fun about making Japan Communist? Frankly, it doesn't really even impact my gameplay too much- I still go for an East Asian conquest spree.

Because its an option. Somethign that doesn't effect you. Its more options to do in this game instead of the same ol' facist and conquer China bit. Now you can go Democratic and be part of the allies or play as monarchists and go for Soviet Union.
 
Armored cars will be coming with the DLC

I really like new features added into the game, but weren't armored cars already a part of HOI3? Why are you adding them as part of a DLC, when we already had them back at HOI3 if so?

The answer seems obvious to me, but I will refrain from stating it in here.
 
Research creep is kind off a problem in general I feel. I really dislike how I have to put all research on industry every 2 years simply because thats the most efficient way to do it. It feels like every 2 years there is a bottleneck, no matter how focused you are playing.

1937-1938 there is so little to research that you sometimes go naval just because you want to keep the R&D busy. 1939 meanwhile everything from tanks, to infantry, support equipment, artillery and industry gets freed at the same time. By 1943 I have too many slots available again.


I agree research is becoming increasingly hard to keep up with. In large part because some many research choices are MUST have. Case in point the 3 industries techs, every two years you have to research those. The same thing is true for tank techs for Germany and Russia. All these fun things like armor cars, or amphibious tanks, or motorized rockets are nice to have that you simply don't have the research slots to actually research until you have researched the core techs.

I'd like them to introduce a nation specific tech slot(s). Which can only be used to research specific things. So for Germany it would be vehicle variants, armor cars, SPAs, motorized, half tracks. For the US and Japan, it would be Naval and amphibious things. The British might be electronics or Naval, and Russia would be artillery. When it came time to select a new research topic the game would highlight what was allowed.

I'm playing Russia right now and I haven't researched antitank guns. I'm using AA guns in my 20 width infantry, which are sufficient to penetrate light tank divisions and either a medium or heavy tank destroyers in my 40 width Guards units. (The war hasn't started yet so we will see) It isn't because Anti tank guns don't make sense for Russia, it is I just couldn't afford to keep my industry and infantry weapons up to date, and rush the 41 tanks into production and research antitank guns. With a dedicated artillery slot, I'd certainly research them as well as rocket artillery.
 
I really like new features added into the game, but weren't armored cars already a part of HOI3? Why are you adding them as part of a DLC, when we already had them back at HOI3 if so?

The answer seems obvious to me, but I will refrain from stating it in here.

Um because it wasn't a necessary addition to put the game out into a very fun playable state?
 
Bratyn was streaming, not Archangel
well if bratyn does the Portuguese or Italian tree we're in for a treat.
I like archangels style but Bratyn is an amazing.
 
Cheers for the DD Podcat, Armoured-Car-Tastic :D. Will be great to have these in the game, and I can see me having a lot of divisions with armoured car recon going forward :cool:

while light tanks help keep your hardness and armor up in tougher divisions

Ooooh, very nice. I usually keep a frontline battalion of light tanks in my armoured divisions as a proxy for the light tanks used for recon (for the countries using light tanks for recon), will be tops to be able to have proper light tank recon - super-cool :D.

Tactics are now rerolled twice as often and we have lowered the frequency of certain phases like close combat quite a bit

This is super-cool, while full-bottle on the land side of the game (nor the history), I've always thought tactics could do with a nip and a tuck, and this sounds like just the thing.

and that relative intel will be replacing the straight up combat bonus from having crypto techs.

Now this is super-super-cool :cool:. Relative intel sounds like a much more historically plausible way of modelling it, as well as much more interesting from a gameplay perspective. Looking forward to getting some intel on the new-look intel :).

Next week is PdxCon and we are also moving offices, so I’ve set my alarm clock on “Maximum chaos!”

An office move and PdxCon sounds like Paradox is trying for a very hard achievement in the game of real life! Good luck :D.

This is a very tricky DD to get a naval-related picture, so have had to stoop to posting one that's a digital recreation (from the "Naval Encyclpedia" website, but no link provided as the page includes flags that aren't appropriate for the Paradox forum) - here's a German armoured car on one of their lighters, about as naval as I can get for this week (with an honourable mention to the Australian 1st Armoured Car Squadron, which did some occupation work aboard ships, sans armoured cars, in Japan in 1947 - but this didn't involve any actual armoured cars, just people trained for armoured cars using ships*).

MNL-BG-2000x477.jpg


* So the best kind of armoured car personnel then :D
 
Have you thought about rebalancing the land doctrines?
What would that even look like? Balancing bonuses to have detriments, so that the player has to realistically assess his country's capabilities and the kind of war they will be fighting? Making guerrilla warfare a real alternative and getting rid of all those silly bonus manpower techs?
 
I was thinking about trying to use Armored Cars as someone like Iran, when I'm trying to form the Persian Empire. Though maybe horses would still be better there. Iran or Turkey could make excellent use out of something like that.
 
Looks great :) Have me drooling

But I must say that British car on the left looks like cow dung. Brits must be employing a comical strategy. When those Germans and Italians see this they will die laughing, Then we show them

Definitely a Great addon :)
 
You forgot an "important" part, they were made for the Danes.
And for the Dutch, who also had quite a lot of Landsverk Pantserwagens!
 
I feel like Armored Cars are a little less useful in-game than they were in real life with this model (especially for countries like Germany) but on the other hand I'm glad to see them finally get some rep.

Also glad we finally have something to give PTSD flashbacks to all those Company of Heroes 1 players that fell victim to being outteched. I think the only thing worse than seeing a Greyhound pull up to an entirely anti-Infantry defensive setup in that game would be to actually be run over by a Greyhound in real life.