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Stellaris Dev Diary #127 - Trade Value and Trade Routes

Hello everyone and welcome to another Stellaris development diary. Today we're going to continue talking about the 2.2 'Le Guin' update, on the topic of Trade Value and Trade Routes. As said before, we're not yet ready to reveal anything about when Le Guin is coming out, only that it's a long time away and we have many more topics to cover before then. Also as said before, screenshots will contain placeholder art and interfaces and non-final numbers.

Trade Value
Trade Value is a new value that's being added in the Le Guin update for non-Gestalt empires, representing the civilian and private-sector economies of these empires. All Pops generate a small amount of Trade Value based on their living standards, with higher living standard Pops generating more trade value, and is also produced by a number of different jobs such as Clerks and Merchants. Additionally, Trade Value can be found as deposits in space, representing various resources that don't have a direct industrial application but might still be desirable to your population (for a real-life example, think of things like as precious stones used in jewelry). Trade Value has no inherent purpose, but can be turned into other resources by being exploited, representing taxation and tariffs imposed on the civilian economy by an empire that has the necessary infrastructure in place to benefit from it.
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In order for Trade Value to count as exploited, it has to fulfill two conditions:

1) There must be an upgraded Starbase in range from the system to collect the Trade Value. By default, upgraded Starbases can only collect inside their own system, but their collection range can be extended by constructing additional Trade Hub modules, with each module extending the collection range by a single system up to a maximum of 6 hyperlane jumps away. You do not need to build an orbital station to collect trade value from planets - this is done automatically if it is in range of a collecting Starbase.

2) Once collected, Trade Value needs to be sent to your capital system. This will be done automatically if the Starbase collecting is located in said capital system, but otherwise the Starbase must be connected to the capital through a Trade Route (more on that below).

Trade Value that is successfully exploited will be converted into other resources (currently, trade value is turned into energy credits at a 1:1 conversion rate, but which exact resources it becomes is fully scriptable and may differ depending on your empire type) and added to your monthly income.
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Trade Routes
Trade Routes are paths are that used to connect remote Starbases to your capital in order to exploit the trade value collected there. Each upgraded Starbase can support a single Trade Route by connecting to another Starbase, which is where the first Starbase will send all of its collected trade value. For example, an empire might have a remote Starbase (we'll call it starbase A), which is sending trade value to another Starbase closer to the capital (starbase B), which in turn sends on both its collected trade and all trade sent to it by starbase A on to the capital. The player has full control over which Starbase sends its value where, and can redraw routes, though there may be an efficiency loss on a newly drawn route for a time.

This means that if starbase A collects a value of 10 from the systems around it, and starbase B collects 15, 10 value will be sent from A to B and all 25 combined value is then sent on to C (the capital) and is successfully exploited. Any trade value that fails to reach the capital, either because of lack of collection, lack of a route, or piracy (more on that below) is wasted - the empire gets no benefits from it - so it'll be especially important to ensure any populous colonies that are generating a lot of trade value are properly connected via trade routes to your capital.

Trades routes will have a special map filter showing routes, protection and piracy, and is also planned to be visualized inside the systems, but more on that later.
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(Ignore any weird visuals such as sector borders, it's just a bug)

Piracy and Trade Defense
Of course, all that lucrative merchandise being moved through space won't exactly go unnoticed by the less savory elements of your empire. Over time, piracy will begin to accumulate along trade routes, especially routes with a high degree of trade value moving through them. For each system with piracy that the trade route passes through, a certain amount of the trade value will be lost. To combat piracy, an empire can make use of a combination of Starbases and fleet Patrols. All upgraded Starbases will have a trade protection value, that is essentially a minimum amount of trade value that will always make it through any system under their protection, regardless of the level of piracy (representing heavily escorted merchant convoys). By default, this trade protection is only for the system they are located in, but can be extended to additional systems by building defensive modules such as Hangar Bays.
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Additionally, any military fleet can be given orders to patrol a route between two Starbases to actively eliminate pirates and reduce the amount of piracy in the systems. The old system of spawning pirate ships in empty systems adjacent to your empire will also change - instead, pirate fleets may spawn in systems where a large amount of trade value is being lost to pirates. Overall, pirate fleets is something you will experience less often and can actively work to prevent, but will be more of an actual threat when they do spawn. We will most likely keep some sort of penalty for having a sprawling empire with a lot of unprotected connections, possibly by simply raising the amount of piracy experienced along your trade routes, or some sort of efficiency penalty. We may also have a system similar to the old pirates for Gestalts, since they do not have access to Trade Value or Trade Routes.
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(Yes, we know the grammar/spelling is wrong, no need to point it out - the icons are also placeholders)

That's all for today! Next week we're continuing to talk about the Le Guin update, on the topic of Decisions and Planetary Bombardment

EDIT: Since it keeps being asked, at this point we are not ready to talk about how trade trades/trade agreements with other empires will work, only that they will exist in some form.
 
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So, in early, early-mid game trade will be mostly just "free" additional energy credits, since it doesn't look that hard to maintain trade round between planets closest to Capital.
Later it depend on your Empire type and size - if you prefer more credits and maintain a "tight" Empire or spread out for more resources and planets overall.
How strongly on can rely on a trade? How big profit it would be? Wouldn't it lead to situations where i can gimp AI by simply cutting off his main trade route so it "starve" due to lack of Energy?
 
He mentioined adding additional collection points, but sector capitals would make the idea system to centralize around.
Would reduce the micro that way too, since sectors already exist, and there isn't an extra layer added just for collection points. Perhaps, for balance, sectors could be less efficient than the state, by virtue of having trade needing to cross sector borders (local tolls and tariffs reducing volume and profits). Not using sectors would be akin to having a single market, while sectors allow decentralized collection but less efficient trade overall.

All this would be purely abstract, but represented all the same by just adding something like a 35% penalty to trade value when sectors are collecting.
 
Really good dev diary. Made an account so I can post a couple questions. I know some of these ideas are related to empire to empire trading, which you are not ready to talk about.

SPOILERS ahead for the Honor Harrington series by David Weber.

1st: Will there be graphics or models of trading ships passing through systems along trade routes?

2nd: In the Honor Harrington series by David Weber one of the advantages the Star Kingdom of Manticore has is the large number of wormholes they have in their territory. While the Star Kingdom is in just one corner of the galaxy the wormholes give it a coverage of almost HALF the galaxy. Planets prioritize sending their cargo through the wormholes because it is much quicker (days instead of weeks or months) giving the Star Kingdom a hefty revenue from relatively low tolls.

Will something like this be possible? Some people are talking about longer routes providing more benefit at the risk of additional piracy because of rare goods (like a Silk Road equivalent) however this would leave out a lot of fun gameplay where having the best (shortest or safest) routes is ideal. From the previous example of Honor Harrington the Star Kingdom at one point goes to war with the Solarian League and starts that off by closing off all its wormholes to Solarian Hulls except for diplomatic couriers and reporters, throwing the Solarian economy into disarray. Doing something similar would be a load of fun, but only makes sense if wormholes are prioritized as shortcuts.

3rd: Another example from Honor Harrington would be Q-ships. Q-ships being merchant ships that are equipped with military grade gear and take pirates by surprise. Would this be something we could see? Both question 2 and 3 are related to Wormhole passage rights. In Honor Harrington foreign military ships are normally prohibited from passing through Wormholes but in the 1st book there is an example of a foreign military putting a q-ship into a poorly defended wormhole system with the intent to take it over. This would also be fun. There is also the idea of certain empires (like militant Klingon-esque empires) being able to arm merchants and science vessels. Not enough to stand up to bigger threats but it represents how that society acts.

Super long post, sorry. But I'm very excited for the Le Guin.
 
We're considering the ability to add additional collection points, but we don't want to make this easy as then there would be no need for long trade routes ever.
Trade value could also have an happiness-bonus for your population, or world's cut from trade routes could suffer from higher crime?
 
Trade value could also have an happiness-bonus for your population, or world's cut from trade routes could suffer from higher crime?

Really, it could be anything. It's a fungible meta currency that you can specialize to your needs.
 
This may be a good opportunity to look at ship balance again. Currently battleships dominate the game, but if they were really, really bad at protecting trade there might be a reason to built other ship types. Hell, you could make carriers really effective at combatting piracy and suddenly there'd be a reason to research strike craft again.
"battleships dominate" rly?? Imba is torpedo corvettes
 
You can draw trade through other empires so long as you have open borders.

Will there be a relations bonus/trust reward for guarding their routes against piracy (and vice versa, will they watch your routes for you)?

We're considering the ability to add additional collection points, but we don't want to make this easy as then there would be no need for long trade routes ever.

It sounds to me like a large non-capital collection point should start getting ideas about "why do we have to bow down to the homeworld"...maybe if you don't stay on top of it, that planet and the ones that trade with it could secede.
 
So, in early, early-mid game trade will be mostly just "free" additional energy credits, since it doesn't look that hard to maintain trade round between planets closest to Capital.
Later it depend on your Empire type and size - if you prefer more credits and maintain a "tight" Empire or spread out for more resources and planets overall.
How strongly on can rely on a trade? How big profit it would be? Wouldn't it lead to situations where i can gimp AI by simply cutting off his main trade route so it "starve" due to lack of Energy?

I suppose that's one of the ideas. Trade empires have to make sure their trade/supply routes don't get disrupted during wars.
Plenty of wars were fought to conquer someone else's trade route or to starve them (Napoleon's and Hitler's attempt of starving the UK come to mind).

@Wiz does it mean we can now have a casus bellum to force someone to direct their trade towards us?
 
All upgraded Starbases will have a trade protection value, that is essentially a minimum amount of trade value that will always make it through any system under their protection


Just to clarify; is this a minimum fixed value (4 trade value will always make it through, the rest is vulnerable to piracy) or a minimum percentage value (at least 50% of the total trade value passing through this system will always make it through as long as you have an upgraded starbase)?
 
@Wiz
Would I be safe in assuming that there will be a "Trade Route Mapmode" that lets us view all the galaxy's traderoutes with empires we know of?
Would be very useful for strategically targeting specific hostile starbases to inhibit their economy, or just getting a quick overview of our own and neighbor's routes if I'm understanding this trade system properly.
 
Other than ship types, maybe ship parts could also have effects, the strikecraft, for example, could be used efficiently in combating pirate.

This may be a good opportunity to look at ship balance again. Currently battleships dominate the game, but if they were really, really bad at protecting trade there might be a reason to built other ship types. Hell, you could make carriers really effective at combatting piracy and suddenly there'd be a reason to research strike craft again.
"battleships dominate" rly?? Imba is torpedo corvettes

Ideally, at least in my book, we'd get a situation where
  • Battleships dominate major fleet engagements.
  • Cruisers shine when it comes to patrolling/raiding trade lanes.
  • Destroyers keep their picket role, but small groups of them are viable for patrols, too.
  • Corvettes, due to their small size, are good in your own territory and a certain distance from it, but fall off the further away they get. That way they're still viable for early wars with direct neighbours, but towards later stages of the game they fill a role closer to torpedo boats back in the time and day of battleship fleets. Good in your own waters and reasonably close, not really suited for taking around the world.
  • Carriers/strike craft should probably have a role that makes them viable supporting units for battleship engagements and commerce patrols. The way Stellaris combat plays out I don't really see carriers outright replacing battleships slugging it out with direct fire.
 
Just to clarify; is this a minimum fixed value (4 trade value will always make it through, the rest is vulnerable to piracy) or a minimum percentage value (at least 50% of the total trade value passing through this system will always make it through as long as you have an upgraded starbase)?

Minimum value. High-value routes will generally need navy patrols.
 
Plundering trade routes is something we want to do but haven't yet figured out exactly how it will work. At the very least you can cut their routes by targeting starbases.

How about an option to fund foreign piracy to disrupt their trade value? Kinda like the ancient Privateers.