Stellaris Dev Diary #185: Announcing Necroids

[exi123]

1.9 was the high point of the ai as I recall. There were even threads of people complaining that it had been made to hard to casual players....

Agreed, when i played at tehse times i lost every second campaign in the first 100 years. When teh odds where against you the campaign was lost. Lategame federations could even break your neck in the 2500s...

 

[Kayden_II]

1) I said nothing of the sort, I said that people demand Paradox devs fix things which aren't in their jurisdiction. Which has happened many, many times and happened to Eladrin in this very thread.

Paradox-Devs develop Stellaris, but aren't responsible to complete, fix, optimise and balance Stellaris etc. and all. Whether it's true or not doesn't really matter since if it's not in the jurisdiction of the devs then it's still in the jurisdiction of Paradox itself. It's just someone like you who tries to force everyone into this trap to make the wrong people, but ( "funnily" ) still within Paradox responsible. If you don't like this then 01. don't make this up or 02. assume that people don't make the devs, but Paradox itself responsible since that's mostly the case anyways.

2) There does not need to be a dedicated thread to complaining about Stellaris

Right, what's needed are a zillion of threads in which each of them covers a specific crituique Stellaris has to deal with. And on top of that, Paradox interacts in said threads, too.

and it would instantly turn into a festering pustule if there was one.

Your opinion. My opinion: No.

3) I did not call a Paradox game director anything. I talked, in general, about how Paradox employees are treated, which is more or less the same regardless of what position they hold.

If I were you then I wouldn't open that can since then you've to talk how Paradox treats its own employees, too. I mean I know what you try to imply how it's always the customer that's responsible for any stress-level a Paradox-employee suffers from, but plot-twist: Paradox itself is also a stress-factor for its own employees.

4) Some people stuck up for Eladrin and some did not. Do not pretend the latter don't exist because it is convenient for your point to do so.

I've already covered this trap above, but it seems pretty convenient for you to emphasize extraordinarily the latter. What's even funnier how it seems that the guy or girl you've talked to doesn't even seem to be included in the latter since if so, you know, follow your own sermon: Don't make the wrong people responsible.

5) Stop breaking up people into imaginary boxes so you can decide where they stand. Calling me an "apologiser" is turning your reason off. You literally have no idea what I think about the state of Stellaris since I have not mentioned it. I have certainly criticised Paradox outside of this thread. I actually agree with some of the complaints in this thread - but not that they should have been aired ad infinitum in a dev diary thread to begin with.

Maybe, but the "I'm not this and that, but ..."-phrase remains delicate in order to show that you're not this and that.

 

[The_Draco]

I feel that I am going to get flamed but I would like to point out something again.

First, I agree with everyone complaining about AI: it should be better, a lot better. There is no doubt.

However, @The_Draco when you talk about "the users" who are you referring to exactly ? Because again, when we look at the Steam reviews, it appears that 90% of the users do enjoy the game. We can talk if this is normal, or if this is because they are not expecting as much as others, ect... but I feel this is a point a lot are missing here. Obviously, a positive steam review does not mean the game is perfect. And often, you will find positive review with constructive criticism (much like some negative review with same kind of criticism)

Which brings me to my other question for the crowd here: have you changed your review to negative (if it was positive before) ? have you stopped buying Stellaris DLC since some time ?

My point here, is I believe Stellaris Dev team are well aware of the AI issue that was brought for many years by many people. But:
1. They explained their plan about it - https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/stellaris-dev-diary-172-reworking-the-ai.1348837
2. They started to make some improvement about it - 2.6

Are some people fed up to wait longer ? Sure. And it is your right to complain loudly on forums. But as far as I see, a lot of users keep enjoying the game despite the flawed AI and obviously, this also impact the priorities of the dev team based on that.

Well, i also will not disagree about AI, i just can't talk about a Problem, i never reached... xD

With users i ment us, here in this forum, i know there are many many players out there enjoing stellaris as it is, also many who don't but i also think that many out there don't even know that this forum exist, so... yah i just ment the ones here, using this forum.

At last, i didn't changed my review (i'm not sure if i already gave a review) to negative, cause, like i said before, i didn't reached the problems jet, like others may did...but yah, what to say...

I'm at your Point, but i also understand others, who say, that this is not enough...

 

[salmaster]

 

[Gromit]

 

[The_Draco]

...About the AI thing, i'm not sure if i see the thing right, but atm (and over all) the AI works with wights in stellaris, right? wights, programmed into every building, district, job etc.. isn't it possible to get away from this wight-based AI wich is way to straight and stubborn, not very flexible etc... to one that more acts like a player? Not using wights in the background (wich are also hard to mod correctly, in my opinion) but looking at, what they need (more ec for example, or a stronger fleet to defend theyr teritory while in war), than looking where they get what they need, best efficient, and than do this in a more fluid and flexible way than with fixed wights? (well, i'm not into AI programming to effectively talk about, but a "real" neuronal network could maybe do so, am i wrong?)

 

[salmaster]

...About the AI thing, i'm not sure if i see the thing right, but atm (and over all) the AI works with wights in stellaris, right? wights, programmed into every building, district, job etc.. isn't it possible to get away from this wight-based AI wich is way to straight and stubborn, not very flexible etc... to one that more acts like a player? Not using wights in the background (wich are also hard to mod correctly, in my opinion) but looking at, what they need (more ec for example, or a stronger fleet to defend theyr teritory while in war), than looking where they get what they need, best efficient, and than do this in a more fluid and flexible way than with fixed wights? (well, i'm not into AI programming to effectively talk about, but a "real" neuronal network could maybe do so, am i wrong?)

Weights are fine, the hardcoded part is broken, they should let modders access to the code but they never will.

 

[salmaster]

How about that it's neither in my interest to quit this game nor to accept its state ?

This argument is so idiotic (I mean people who say just quit the game). I payed for this game, hell I payed around 100€ considering all the DLCs, moreover the AI (and the game overall) was not broken from the beginning, it was broken with megacorps.
So I payed for a (kind of) working product that was broken after a patch and never fixed in YEARS.

 

[Taritu]

Looks lovely, and the second you fix the military AI and the crises, I'll buy it.

 

[Tech Noir Synth]

...well, i see, i say something about flaming, and .... get flamed for, so guys, i don't sayed that there are no Threads about theese problems or any other problems the game may have, i also don't say that there aren't any comments about theese, but what i say is that HERE in this special single threat, most people who "talk" about AI and other problems are mainly just flaming or talking stuff that at least not just say "hey pdx, there are more important things to do than a new species-pack, what about this?" but "fck pdx", "devs are useless", "i never buy this shit until game gets fixed" and so on.
So, it is NOT the reason, i am complaining about, but it is the kind HOW you tell about the reason (in this part, the AI-Problems)

And to make this clear again, I don't have these Problems reached, so i can't talk about theese problems, but I can agree that thy are there if so many have them, so i also agree that it is needed to show theese problems (no mater what problems, if AI or performence in solo or desync and stuff in mp), and if the dedicatet Thrats are dead, it is ok to show the problems there, where devs look in...but still it doesn't helps if you just rage and denounce the devs, pdx and everyone who not call 100% agree, you can tell the problems without flaming people, even if it is your opinion that it is true that pdx is shit...
And at least, we all have the option to quit the game, leave pdx and try something else, drinking tee to calm down, maybe... xD
so and don't get me wrong, i do not say, you guys are a bad community, i just want to give a tip how (maybe) the devs read more of our critics and (more maybe) get more and better motivated, to do theyr work...or would you like to do your work, when your customers every time just shout at you? I wouldn't and i wouldn't make a good job, if i don't like it and know, i will get shouted at, no matter what i do...and thats how it looks atm here in this threat and other dds...
So, just think about this and don't blame me for my opinion on normal, polite interaction with one another, even with devs that may don't make theyr jobs correctly

Stop trying to rally people against each other. No one benefits from your senseless accusations. No one has anything against the developers personally.

You are trying to make it sound like all the criticism is just to insult the developers, which is nonsense.

We post in this forum to make our opinions heard. You see that about 80% of the posts here are about the fact that the game is broken in too many aspects. And even though the dlc looks nice, it doesn't fix the problem. We want a properly working game, like it was before 2.2 Le Guin which broke Crisis, added horrendous micromanagement and resettlement issues. The patches after it did not fix it.

Crisis is broken to this day.
2.3 added automation and everyone knows its utter garbage and cannot be used properly.
The Ai is incapable of playing the game properly. Even at highest difficulty its absolutely braindead while having tons of ressources and naval capacity.
Meanwhile, a single modder with less tools than the developer has made a fully functioning AI in mere months, which does not need any cheats to play the game properly.
Military AI is wonky and hardcoded, so modders cannot change.
Mid to lategame is pure micromanagement hell. 2.2 was supposed to have less micromanagement. That was a giant lie. You have to constantly check up on your planets because you can no longer pre-build buildings.

Before 2.2. I could dump 200 000 minerals in the most inefficient way possible into 20 habitats. And that was great, because the would never have to look at these habitats ever again.

Meanwhile in the current game, I am checking my planets for 100 ingame years straight and longer. And I can no longer queue up any buildings because the building slots are not available. And the pops no longer migrate automatically like they used to. The management is just absurd and its no fun at all because you have to juggle everything yourself.

 

[TheDungen]

Sadly, I think the average person really just doesn't care about all these complaints, and Paradox knows it. The amount of people that will not buy DLC because they're upset about the state of the game probably isn't enough to matter. Even here, probably the most critical place about the game, this DLC diary still has more than half likes. Many will see a new DLC, buy it, play a couple games to 2300 and put the game back down again. That will keep the dev team paid more than fixing end-game lag, crisis fleets loafing around or improving late-game planet management.

And I don't want to dog the dev team, and I appreciate what effort they've put towards some of these issues, but I think a lot of problems people want addressed either still aren't their priority or the devs just plain don't know how to solve them. The tried and true "we're always working on these things" response is a tough one to keep hearing, given that modders have make far greater strides in AI performance just working in their free time compared to the professional dev team for the game. I'd rather it just be they aren't putting their full effort into the fixes rather than they're unable, but either answer isn't a great one.

And even when they do say they're working on the problems, how many times have we been told major improvements have been made but the stuff is still functioning poorly? Too many. Like not too long ago they said a dev was leaving the team, but had just greatly improved war AI pathing and targeting for the latest update. Yet here we are still complaining about war AI, since even with whatever improvement... it's still bad. And like the newer performance updates were a good step in the right direction for sure, but without solving the weight of pops and whatnot on the game, things still become a crawl later on, just not a near-stop now.

And as harsh as I'm sure this all sounds, I do still have some faith in the team and I'm partly giving the worst case example of what's going on. I love the game and want the best for it, but it's just a frustrating situation. It'd be much easier to sound positive if we could also get some more proper back and forth discussion and openness about the development challenges the team is facing. Sometimes they've done that, and it's been great when they have, but please keep doing it. An extended radio silence all summer while the game was left with so many big issues, then coming back with dev diaries about issues nobody even brought up and new DLC is just asking to upset people. You just had to know that was going to get the types of responses it has.

I think this DLC looks neat and I like the new ship set, but I'm going to skip buying it for now. I'm hoping to hear about some worthwhile updates/fixes first so I actually want to play another campaign in the first place.

Again if people stop buying the DLCs they don't have any money to actually fix the issue.
The sale of content packs is what's funding the free patches.

 

[Shrike]

Again if people stop buying the DLCs they don't have any money to actually fix the issue.
The sale of content packs is what's funding the free patches.

There is a kind of human behaviour which gives dopamine to the human mind when they have "everything".

You see this in every aspect of the modern gaming industry, pre order weapon skins and rubbish like that, it's more prevelant in multiplayer games and mobile games and cr*p like that, it's a way of manipulating people to make as much money as possible.

Now with Stellaris and paradox games in general (so I've heard) before they broke Stellaris at least you'd get a lot of time for your money.

So obviously selling a skin (bet that necrons rip off video cost more than anything in the skin to produce) for the price of a cheap DLC is not value for money but if you have played hundreds of hours in a game you don't feel short changed.

The real problem is that players have had enough for reasons that have been mentioned already to be sure. And this is a kick in the balls or the correspondent female part of the body.

I personally have been following the dev's diaries and, while I knew at the back of my mind they would end up pulling some cr*p like this i thought maybe, just maybe they would concentrate on fixing the game, maybe giving some stuff away as an apology before trying to get more money.

However they did this hilariously poor quality looking necron rip off and while in the short term they will get some sales the bad will gained, is going to end up losing them a lot more "revenue" in the long term.

Bad management and unfair to us who have spent a lot of money and time on this.

 

[Kayden_II]

Again if people stop buying the DLCs they don't have any money to actually fix the issue.

I believe that Paradox keeps supporting the players with DLCs as long said DLCs get buyed, but the extent of actual patches ? Since ...

The sale of content packs is what's funding the free patches.

Yeah Yeah, the DLCs fund the patches, but it looks fishy that the state of this game remains pretty problematic whereas at the same time, Paradox keeps to make record-profits right now. With that in mind your narrative that "they don't have any money to actually fix the issue" looks more like that "they don't simply take any money to actually fix the issue". And yeah yeah, I'm aware that Paradox is a company and that their goal is to maximize profits, but I've just pointed out how careful the customers have to be in order to not get screwed.

 

[Tim_Ward]

Again if people stop buying the DLCs they don't have any money to actually fix the issue.
The sale of content packs is what's funding the free patches.

They've had the sales of Megacorp, Federations, Ancient Relics and Lithoids to fund fixes to these issues, what the hell more do they want?

Also, normally software companies are just expected to pay for bug fixes themselves. If you sell product on the premise that it does X and it doesn't do X, you're expected to fix it and absorb the costs yourself, you can't be, like, 'who's gonna pay for my time while make the thing you brought do what I said it does'.

 

[salmaster]

They've had the sales of Megacorp, Federations, Ancient Relics and Lithoids to fund fixes to these issues, what the hell more do they want?

Also, normally software companies are just expected to pay for bug fixes themselves. If you sell product on the premise that it does X and it doesn't do X, you're expected to fix it and absorb the costs yourself, you can't be, like, 'who's gonna pay for my time while make the thing you brought do what I said it does'.

Federations was top 3 selling on steam for weeks, they got de money

 

[The_Draco]

Oh god damned, yah, wow, maybe no one said word for word what i called as examples, and i never said that theese exact words were used here, i just sayed that most complaining posts here are close to such phrases... hell ... and forgive me, if my text is bit .... difficult to understand, but english isn't my main language, so maybe i make some mistakes in grammar and so on, but still what i mean is the same, caml down and write a bit more polite... how you guys "discuss" here ... come on, look through it like you where devs and than say how you would react to what is written here, thats al what i wantet to say...
So whats wrong with this, its my opinion, what is the reason why you now flame me like the devs and pdx, just becaue you're enrage and right in everything you do and I'm an Idiot because I'm not raged like you?

Well, and if you now have a problem with me, than report me, or use the next dev diary to tell pdx that I was evil to you because i sayd my opinion, maybe this will help a lot...

 

[Industrious81]

Actually I think you were addressed quite fairly and politely. It's called debate. And it is a lost art in today's world.

 

[The_Draco]

Actually I think you were addressed quite fairly and politely.

Well, some of us do, some don't, thats my opinion and what i want to say since 3-4 sites...

It's called debate. And it is a lost art in today's world.

thats sad but true...

 

[Pellaken]

This thread is adding to my loss of faith in humanity

 

[salmaster]

This thread is adding to my loss of faith in humanity

Do you mean your loss of faith in Paradox?