Stellaris Dev Diary #270 - Traditional Results (of Summer Experiments)

[Gorehuchi]

Will the Synthetic leader traits still be strictly better than cybernetic leader traits, or will they be balanced/made more different?

Just to add on to this:
Looking at my recent cybernetics only save, I see that the Cyborg trait doesn't even do anything for rulers, and yet still takes up one of the three potential trait slots that leaders get. Cybernetic leaders have less room for diversification without a real upside when compared to synths.
Maybe they could get an additional leader trait point? Or would that be too much?
It would kind of represent further individual development and self-modding. (I guess you'd call it "specialization" for hive minds.)
Since cybernetically enhanced leaders are going to die I feel like they should go hard in unique ways, as opposed to being generically amazing like psychics or practically immortal like machines/synths. And there'd be a slightly greater risk of negative traits, which I think vibes with cyberpunk fiction.
It would be even more fitting if the traits used machine names, not that many generals live long enough to become a "Parts Cannibalizer" or get an "Erratic Morality Core", but it would be cool.
(Edit: Yeah, this was a pretty jank idea, but on the bright side Eladrin confirmed that the leader traits would be improved so woooo!)

 

[cryptkeeper]

Couple thoughts, I'd like to see some bonuses to spying it would be very thematic for cyborgs to be able to hack things easier.

I also would like to see some special interactions for clone army and genetic ascension as there isn't any reason to pick the ascension even though it's super thematic. As they can't genetically modify themselves which make me wonder if they can even modify themselves with cyborg traits, I also still find it odd they can't with enough tech reproduce the or upgrade the ancient clone vats. The only ascension that would benefit them is Psionic and cyborgs, even though genetic ascension seem right up clone army thematically .

I also would like to see see some bonuses for psionic slavers, the idea of psionic dominating lesser being with their minds is cool. Unless we are saving that for some energy being ascension.

Robots still need a second ascension choose, while I get it is probably too much for this round robots lack as many options especially late game, though thier civic game could use some improvements too.

 

[Idle America]

I have one request regarding genetic engineering: change the way Servant species in Fallen Empires are handled. Instead of being nerve-stapled by default, make it so their current form is a subset of the species, so we can switch them back to their original templates without having to take a specific ascension.

 

[Bloodbat]

Yes I rather grasped that. However Xenocompatibility proved to be unpopular with enough players that Paradox gave us the option to turn it off. Now they are re-introducing as aspect of it that we can't.

That was only because Xenocompatability breaks the game. I would like an option to limit or disable AI gene-modification though.

 

[Carl_Bar]

The opportunity cost of taking an ascension path and thus having one less tradition tree was considered a positive aspect of this rework.

The idea of Ascension paths and the things you have to do to unlock them as some kind of choice is the single biggest flaw with them right now. They're so inherently powerful not taking them isn't really an option outside of pure roleplay builds.

That makes the downside of taking them, (reduced AP, and now Tradition slots), a non-factor for the ascension path itself and instead throws the problem onto all the things they displace instead. Which if all those things are equal, (or the range of options is small enough you only have to exclude a few), is just fine. When a category gets overloaded with enough choices though some options become inherently unlikely to ever be taken because they're so weak you'll only take them if all the good options are gone first.

Now overall this proposed change is still a huge step forward IMO. Tradition trees do not suffer from an overabundance of choices, (and thus lots of poor choices that are virtually never taken), so using up one of those isn;t a deal breaker, and freeing up an AP slot significantly helps with the overabundance of choice issues thats begun to plague AP's as time has gone on.

That said i very much feel a close eye needs to be kept here. The more AP's and/or traditions trees are added in future content the more one or both of the AP and tradition tree slots are going to become overloaded and squeeze out some things.



I'm also going to add my voice to the concerns over the way species management is done, and over psionics in general power level being underwhelming. For some weird reason i love spiritualist empires, (not especially religious IRL, but playing them in a game seems to suit me for some reason), and it's allways made me sad how weak they feel.


That said love roughly 90% of what i'm seeing here, it's just a lot harder to gush about what i like than throw up disclaimers about what worries me.

 

[Echo Candor One]

Soooooon.

There's a reason this was a really long dev diary.

behold, my hype is infinite

 

[Cry_Havok]

Will Cyborg and Synth get armies after the rework, or with bio and psionic contrinue to be the only paths with good armies?

 

[great lakes]

I like this,, in general, but I'm seeing a missed opportunity. it would have been lovely to hear that genemoding would not take a science department for several months/years. it would also be cool if the process unfolded/could unfold as a generational shift - bioengernring the next generation rather then reshaping this one.

 

[Grenartia]

You're not forcing it, you're facilitating it. If traditions represent the culture of your empire and it's "collective will" then all your pops want to be cyborgs. The special project isn't black vans rounding up civilians and taking them to an upgrade center, it's grants and funds to ensure everyone has access.

Reverse the headcanon for playing auth.

I don't like that. I want to play egalitarian. Not auth.

 

[Daryam]

Will cyborg leader traits be upgraded now that cybernetic has its own ascension path?

 

[luanmameili]

Can now assimilate Hive-Minded pops.

What about Nanobot Diffuser Colossus? Currently it will kill Hive-Minded pops.


Also, will it be possible for Servitors to assimilate species out of a Hive-MInd?

 

[theBigTurnip385]

So Hive's will be able to hit 30-40 pop assembly on there industrial worlds

 

[Maethendias]

synth ascension is literally the best in the game roflmao

we are talking about machine empires, not synth

 

[Eladrin]

I like this,, in general, but I'm seeing a missed opportunity. it would have been lovely to hear that genemoding would not take a science department for several months/years. it would also be cool if the process unfolded/could unfold as a generational shift - bioengernring the next generation rather then reshaping this one.

Redoing how gene and robo modding work was out of the scope of things @Alfray Stryke could do as part of Summer Experimentation, but it's on the "todo" list. (Though without a firm target as to "when".)

It could be a lot better.

One of the nice things about the release cadence given to us by the Custodian Initiative is that we always have the opportunity to make things better, it just needs to be prioritized appropriately.

 

[mysticdueler]

Redoing how gene and robo modding work was out of the scope of things @Alfray Stryke could do as part of Summer Experimentation, but it's on the "todo" list. (Though without a firm target as to "when".)

It could be a lot better.

One of the nice things about the release cadence given to us by the Custodian Initiative is that we always have the opportunity to make things better, it just needs to be prioritized appropriately.

Personally I agree that any robo/gene modding projects should use the new Incident system, with the speed determined by how much (and what type) of resource you are willing to spend. Plus you can use pulse events or the different stages to have interesting things happen (extra unrest from an unwilling populace, unexpected popularity speeding up the process, defective parts being used costing more time/resources, etc)

 

[Zagreb 887]

Very nice changes! But still, I dont get why there isn't a psionic way for Hivemind?

 

[Troyen]

Very nice changes! But still, I dont get why there isn't a psionic way for Hivemind?

This was already answered:

Because the vast majority of this rework was done as an experimental project of mine, done during self-development time and over summer, working with limited art, code and narrative design support, we determined that giving hive-minds access to psionics and doing it justice would take more resources than we had available.

And in other threads they've mentioned that many shroud events would have to be rewritten or updated to make sense from a hive perspective since they currently depict unlinked individuals.

 

[Archael90]

since they currently depict unlinked individuals.

What do you mean by that? Psionically ascended empire is already connected via telepathy, they are just step away for total mind meld, and by some definitions they are already gestalt consciousness. So thy are (at the very least) linked since they got full psionic potential.

edit. What are you disagree with? That psionic empire is linked? its fact, not opinion xD just like cyber pops are linked. It deoes not means they are thinking eachother like gestalt consciousness, but like we with internet. Its just a fact.
Tho, in some headcanons, psy empire is already gestalt.

 

[Kommunist Fried Chicken]

• Telepaths previously provided a planet-wide +5% Resources from Pops modifier, this has been replaced with a +5% Resources from Psionic Pops so that non-Psionic pops in your empire no longer have their performance improved by the presence of Telepaths. However, this modifier increases to +10% when the Breach the Shroud tradition is taken, meaning that the two Telepath jobs from a Psi-Corp building will provide +20% to the resource output of the planet if all pops working are Psionic. So although a Psionic empire may have fewer pops than the other Ascension Paths, those pops should be more efficient.

So, psi empires have 30% output bonus in total? I don't know what's the detail of new living standard, but it seems not enough to remedy the drawback on pops number, since the bonus are additive, and there are many bonus already.

 

[Zagreb 887]

This was already answered:

And in other threads they've mentioned that many shroud events would have to be rewritten or updated to make sense from a hive perspective since they currently depict unlinked individuals.

Missed that part, thanks! IIRC the Forgotten Queens mod updated Shroud events for Hiveminds, maybe devs could take some insights from it