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Stellaris Dev Diary #60: Psionics and The Shroud

Hello everyone and welcome to another Stellaris development diary. Today's dev diary is going to be about psionics and one of the three ascension paths mentioned in Dev Diary #56: the Psionic Ascension Path.

Psionics
First, before we start digging into the way psionics will work Utopia, we should clarify that we are not removing any features from the free version of the game. If you have the Banks update but do not own Utopia, psionics will continue to work the same way they currently do: As technologies that you unlock. The only difference is that psionics can now only be researched by Spiritualist empires, though it is entirely possible for an empire that does not start out as Spiritualist to acquire psionics by shifting their empire ethics to Spiritualist over the course of the game, and once you start down the Psionic path it is possible to continue along it even if you stop being Spiritualist. This Spiritualist requirement applies whether or not you own Utopia.

If you *do* own the Utopia expansion, most of the psionic features will no longer appear as technologies. Only Psionic Theory, the very first psionic tech, is still researchable. To get access to the rest of the psionic path you will need to pick the 'Mind over Matter' Ascension Perk to start your empire on the Psionic Ascension Path. Picking this Ascension Perk will unlock latent psionic abilities among your primary species. A certain percentage of your leaders will have the 'Psychic' trait that grants a variety of advantages for the different leader classes, you will get access to Psionic Armies and also the special Psi Corps building. As with all Ascension Paths, you will need to have at least two Ascension Perk slots unlocked to pick 'Mind over Matter'.
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After picking Mind over Matter, you will need to continue amassing Unity and working your way through the Tradition trees. Once you have unlocked your fourth Ascension Perk slot, the 'Transcendance' Ascension Perk becomes available. This is the second stage in the Psionic Ascension Path and represents the full Psionic awakening of your species. From this point on, your entire species will get the 'Psionic' species trait and all leaders from this species will be full-fledged Psychics. In addition to the advantages granted by these traits, from now on there is also a chance that other species in your empire will psionically awaken, first as latent Psychics and then as fully awakened ones much like your own.
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The Shroud (Paid Feature)
Not long after fully awakening, your species will become aware of The Shroud. The Shroud is the realm from which psychics draw their power, a strange dimension very unlike the material universe, a place of opportunity and danger alike. To begin exploring The Shroud, you will need to complete a special society research project that once completed will give you access to The Shroud in the contacts view. Each time you wish to enter The Shroud you will need to expend a considerable amount of energy (in the form of Energy Credits), though this cost can be reduced by having access to the Zro Dust Strategic Resource.
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As for what can happen while exploring The Shroud... quite a few different things. We will not give them all away here, but some examples include unlocking psionic technologies, asking the spirits that dwell there for a boon, or even forming a Covenant with one of a number of particularly powerful spirits... a pact that will give great benefits, but may come at a terrible cost.
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That's all for today! Next week we'll be coming back to Factions and how you can use them to change your Empire Ethics. We'll also be talking about Indoctrination. See you then!
 
The shroud is conscious, consciousness is not as predictable as physical reactions unfortunately. That's what I was trying to get at.

It's more like the Shroud being conscious means that it can keep people out if it wants. I'm not sure what sort of world Stellaris actually has, but it seems like the most likely conclusion is that the Shroud simply keeps people without spiritual ethos out. Materialists can't really do much against that. Why would they anyway, being busy embracing trans-*speciesname*ism. (We really need a better word for that.)

Also, I've heard from other Crusades and Papacy apologists. However, based on what I've heard they liked to burn people who promoted heliocentrism if they could get their hands on them. But I'm sure the truth was probably more nuanced than that.

It's these neat facts that "everybody knows" that spread like wildfire. Did you know that the flight of a bumblebee is inexplicable to science? It's not, actually, at all, but it is what "people have heard". [/rant]
You can google this stuff very easily yourself. I'd rather not continue this line of debate, as it's starting to veer off-topic and into real life stuff.
 
@Wiz gonna ask again, is it possible to mod in additional interactions with the shroud? More bargains and pacts for instance?
 
And your point? Just because a sci-fi show has magic in it...doesn't suddenly make magic sci-fi. It's also not remotely relevant how long that's been the case, as shouting something repeatedly doesn't eventually make it true. It just means there's a sci-fi story with some pure fantasy thrown in for the sake of lazy writing. Honestly...I blame Arthur C. Clarke for not clarifying his statement about advanced technology and magic. It's like the stupidity that revolves around everyone's gross misunderstanding of quantum mechanics thanks to Schrodinger's Cat.

Regardless...it's not as if I'm making an unreasonable request. I want to be able to generate galaxies with nations in which psionics can't exist. I don't like psionics in general, and I care even less for how they're currently (and planned to be) implemented in the game. I'm not asking for it to be removed from the game, nor am I inconveniencing any other player's enjoyment, should the feature be included. I'd like to at least have the option to avoid psionics completely, and I don't really trust the modding community to handle it properly...considering how broken the balance of their other efforts have been.

If it makes you feel any better, I think there should be such options for each of the ascension paths for those who tend not to like the other paths for whatever reason.

then here is an idea create a mod that removes them, or wait till someone creates a mod. My point being you said that psionics is not sci-fi and I just proved you wrong along with someone else here - so again if you don't like it then either create a mod that removes psionics or changes it or wait for someone to create a mod to remove/change psionics, or better yet don't buy the expansion if you don't like it
 
It's more like the Shroud being conscious means that it can keep people out if it wants. I'm not sure what sort of world Stellaris actually has, but it seems like the most likely conclusion is that the Shroud simply keeps people without spiritual ethos out. Materialists can't really do much against that. Why would they anyway, being busy embracing trans-*speciesname*ism. (We really need a better word for that.)

I mean that perspective certainly puts a better light on Materialists than mine. But the scientific method requires reproducibility, consciousness is essentially a ball of chaos. You'd be hitting your head against the wall for eternity trying to predict patterns and expected results for it or psionics. Don't take it personally if the Shroud doesn't want to talk to you senpai.
 
the way I see it and I could be wrong is that Materialist's get robots which the other empires can't get right? Then Spiritualist's are much more likely to get psionic's , since they are more mentally attuned. Though the other empires could get lucky and get the psionic trait. So my question is what is wrong with spiritualist being the one getting psionic's while materialist's are the only one's to get robots/synths as far as I know
 
I hope that we get to meet the Deities of the Old Gods event chain in the Shroud along with special dialog options with those beings for completing the event chain if they are in the Shroud.
 
It's not a question of science or experimental models, it's a question of the Shroud letting them in.
As I recalling from events, when Shroud don't let psykers in, they bash through (and sometimes gets psionic shields tech).
 
And your point? Just because a sci-fi show has magic in it...doesn't suddenly make magic sci-fi. It's also not remotely relevant how long that's been the case, as shouting something repeatedly doesn't eventually make it true. It just means there's a sci-fi story with some pure fantasy thrown in for the sake of lazy writing. Honestly...I blame Arthur C. Clarke for not clarifying his statement about advanced technology and magic. It's like the stupidity that revolves around everyone's gross misunderstanding of quantum mechanics thanks to Schrodinger's Cat.

Regardless...it's not as if I'm making an unreasonable request. I want to be able to generate galaxies with nations in which psionics can't exist. I don't like psionics in general, and I care even less for how they're currently (and planned to be) implemented in the game. I'm not asking for it to be removed from the game, nor am I inconveniencing any other player's enjoyment, should the feature be included. I'd like to at least have the option to avoid psionics completely, and I don't really trust the modding community to handle it properly...considering how broken the balance of their other efforts have been.

If it makes you feel any better, I think there should be such options for each of the ascension paths for those who tend not to like the other paths for whatever reason.
This is why Materialists can't access Psychic tech :p
 
I wouldn't assume that spiritualists are just crazy religious people. They can be of course, but I would say that spiritualism ingame is simply being less skeptical and more open to concepts like mind over matter and god, whereas a materialist empire would be more inclined to dismiss them as nonsense and pseudo-science (thus making them overall better at science but not willing to look into undemonstrated unexplained spiritual concepts).
 
I'm a great 40k fan. I play the actual game with figures basicly once a week and have been a lore nerd since the early nineties. But these remarks about "how 40k this is" needs to stop. The idea of the "warp", "immaterium" or "ether" and all other names for a supernatural or non-physical realm in sci-fi is not a 40k invention. It's much older than 40k and has been prevalent in sci-fi for far longer than 40k has existed. /rant
 
I'm a great 40k fan. I play the actual game with figures basicly once a week and have been a lore nerd since the early nineties. But these remarks about "how 40k this is" needs to stop. The idea of the "warp", "immaterium" or "ether" and all other names for a supernatural or non-physical realm in sci-fi is not a 40k invention. It's much older than 40k and has been prevalent in sci-fi for far longer than 40k has existed. /rant

Indeed it is, but WH40K's Warp has pretty much become the most known example of it, at least as far as sci-fi is concerned. Couple that with the amount of players here who have at least briefly consumed some 40K media (be they tabletop games, RPGs, video games, books), it's easy to see why the Warp is the most common analogue to the Shroud.
 
@Wiz Time permitting, will there be Dev Diaries on the Biological Ascension and Synthetic Ascension paths? Although the Synthetic Ascension path did get covered some in twitter spoilers and in an earlier DD.
 
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Hi Wiz,

The way I view it, you can have one and only one of the two following things:
1) Distinct ethics that have their own unique playstyles.
2) No ethics restrictions on mechanics.

I consider #1 to be more important, so that's the direction we'll be going. It'll be fully moddable, of course.

I agree that it is good to have relevant choices, including differences in playstyles for ethics. Real telepathy, of course, would profoundly change society. What would happen if all criminal and civil trials were 100% effective? I wonder if a slightly more more flexible scope might be better though. For example if ascendancy paths became mutually exclusive at the second perk in the path so you could (if you want) have some psionics in your race by taking the first option but only be locked in the psionic path by taking the second per that awakens the whole race.

As an alternative, the mid-range bog standard technologies would be available to everyone and the higher technologies would require perks. With way more perks than slots, every race would be forced to choose a subset of transcendent technologies. The latter option is more flexible, allowing you to mix and match. I also think part of the issue is that 'spiritual' is a vague term for ethics. Some envision it as religiosity, some as an extreme interest in philosophy and so on.
 
And your point? Just because a sci-fi show has magic in it...doesn't suddenly make magic sci-fi. It's also not remotely relevant how long that's been the case, as shouting something repeatedly doesn't eventually make it true. It just means there's a sci-fi story with some pure fantasy thrown in for the sake of lazy writing. Honestly...I blame Arthur C. Clarke for not clarifying his statement about advanced technology and magic. It's like the stupidity that revolves around everyone's gross misunderstanding of quantum mechanics thanks to Schrodinger's Cat.

I believe we are getting to the point where we risk bumping up against the no true scotsman fallacy. Sci-fi is a social construct and has several definitions (hard vs. soft, etc). Psionics may not fit *your* definition of sci-fi, but it does fit other's view of the genre. Given all the WH40K, Star Wars, Star Trek, & Dune fans who play the game, it's likely that most people who bought and play the game would accept psionics as part of their sci-fi schema. "Lazy" or no, it's likely going to stay, if only for the sake of pleasing the base and balancing the game.
 
I sense Chaos Gods and The Warp from Warhammer 40k :)

Beware of foul powers of the Shroud, for this is the hunting ground of the All-Devouring Darkness and its minions! by only refusing them and living under the light of our beloved Archprophetess, can the universe be protected of all True Evil.
 
..and even more Warhammer 40K references! Though I'll admit that spiritual realm is a popular concept in both Sci-Fi and Fantasy, description sounds somewhat familiar, especially with the Magnus the Red storyline.

Not like it's a bad thing, of course.

And this is one the reasons because I love Stellaris so much! all those juicy Easter Eggs and now this! I wonder now... what comes next? Archailects like the ones from Orion's Arm universe (http://www.orionsarm.com/)? Immortal and extremely powerful beings like the Argardians in the Marvel Cinematic universe or the Guardians of the Universe in DC Comics? only time (and the Dev Diaries!;)) will tell.