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Tinto Flavour #18 - 16th of May 2025

Hello, and welcome one more week to Tinto Flavour, the happy Tuesdays & Fridays in which we take a look at the content of Europa Universalis V!

Today, we will be taking a look at the flavour content for the Sultanate of Delhi, the most powerful Indian country in 1337 - but not without a few curveballs to tackle. Let’ start without further ado:

A series of swift and legendary conquests in the last century gave birth to our great Sultanate of Delhi. With territories under our jurisdiction that span from Deccan to the fertile fields of Lahore, none other has dared measure up to the prestige and status of our accomplishments.

However, it has become apparent that we have overextended our authority across such a big Sultanate that it is nowadays quite difficult to control. Our enemies are many, and they covet to undo our great heritage. To the east, our subjects in Bengal have started questioning their masters, while our southern territories have long disputed our hold over them. And the Hindu countries of Southern India may further entrench their resistance to our rule, led by the rising power of Vijayanagar.

We trust the guidance of Sultan Muhammad Tughlaq, whose watchful eye may safeguard our lands and prevent our downfall...

Country Selection.png

As usual, all UI, 2D and 3D are WIP.

Delhi.png

Delhi Subjects.png

Delhi Diplomacy.png

The starting situation of Delhi. There’s a bug with the coloring of subjects of subjects, but Gaur has a subject itself, Taraf.

This is the starting Government setup content for Delhi, and other Indian Muslim Sultanates, as well:
Delhi Estates.png


Reform Indian Sultanate.png

Mamluk Barracks.png

Reform Taluqdar Nobility.png

Taluqdar.png


Dharmic Dhimmi Communities.png

Protected Faith.png

The last one was already shown, but it’s super important for Delhi’s starting setup, as only 2% of its pops are Sunni, the state religion, as shown in the Country Selection screenshot.

Related to this, a tab that we usually don’t show, the Rebels one, as it’s also quite relevant to Delhi’s start:
Rebels.png

This is not final, but gives an idea that managing Delhi at the start may not be easy…

Delhi also starts with a Work of Art:
Qutb Minar.png

And here are some of its advances:
Advances Origin of Hindustani.png

Advances Indo-Persian Culture.png

Advances Turkic Conqueror Roots.png

Advances Reintegrate Provinces.png

Advances Afghan Nobility.png

Delhi’s advances are quite interesting - the country will need those modifiers…

But the most interesting for Delhi is its narrative content, because soon after the game starts, a situation will pop up, ‘The Fall of Delhi’:
Fall of Delhi1.png

Fall of Delhi2.png

Fall of Delhi3.png

Fall of Delhi4.png

Fall of Delhi5.png

Fall of Delhi6.png

Fall of Delhi Share of Power.png

Fall of Delhi Panel.png

So, when the situation is active, several events may trigger, which may influence the ‘Share of Power’ of the situation:
Fall of Delhi7.png

Fall of Delhi8.png

This modifier scales based on how many countries support the Opposing side.

This might end up being the situation some months after it starts, if the player is not careful enough:
Fall of Delhi9.png

The situation may last for years, even decades, creating a very challenging gameplay for Delhi, with even more events popping up:
The Mad Sultan.png


Habshi.png

Habshi2.png

The end requirements of the situation are the following, with different possibilities:
Fall of Delhi End Requirements.png

One of them is a disaster that may trigger to Delhi, making the situation even worst:
Dissolution of Delhi.png

Dissolution of Delhi2.png

Dissolution of Delhi3.png

While this disaster is active, some historical revolters may appear: the Bahmanis, Malwa, Gujarat, or Jaunpur. The player can choose to either keep playing as Delhi or to start playing with one of them.

Besides that, Delhi has dozens of other non-Situation, non-Disaster related events, such as:
The Old Seat of the Sultanate.png


Ghulaman.png

Tughlaq Salves.png


Hisar e Firuza.png

… And much more, but that’s all for today! This will be the schedule for next week:
  • Monday -> Tinto Maps Feedback about India
  • Tuesday -> Tinto Flavour about Sweden, hosted by @Johan
  • Wednesday -> Tinto Talks about Unit Graphics, hosted by @SaintDaveUK
  • Thursday -> Second ‘Behind the Scenes’ video!
  • Friday -> Tinto Flavour about Muscovy/Russia
Cheers!
 
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One minor suggestion for the UI art: overlap the estate icon. Right now it is a symbol of the estate (crown, castle, etc) on top of a triangle. At first glance I thought the bottom part of the triangle was in the foreground with the rest of the symbol projecting out of the triangle. Which looks really good for the horizontally oriented symbols (crown, castle) and makes it pop out. That would make it a more integrated image and not feel disconnected. Three of the symbols already have a good horizontal appeal. The burgers symbol could be shortened vertically and made fatter to follow the same aesthetic. The only one that doesn’t naturally fit would be the clergy symbol since it naturally fits the triangle profile. I still think it would look fine...maybe tilt the hands slightly forward to generate the same forward projection as the other icons.

It's a minor detail but throwing my 2 duckets out there.

1747534348704.png
 
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Hello devs will there be a way to play as Hindu Bengal because the Ganesha rebellion nearly succeeded. If not only for the help of Ibhrahim Lodi Bengal would be a Hindu Raj
 
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Is there a way for the Delhi Sultans to convert to Jainism or Buddhism at will (ofcourse with huge stability and legitimacy loss and ulema estate rebellion)

For Mughals under Akbar is it possible to establish Din-e-Ilahi which was syncretic of various faiths leading to no conversion and very high tolerance of heathens
 
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What is Ulama and Umara? Generally, I think this "flavor" localisation type will be problematic if not careful. I am assuming it is some Indian cast? (maybe?) Am I correct in assuming there will be a tooltip when hovering to ensure players can understand?

EDIT: I'm not sure why I am being downvoted. Googling Umara or Ulama doesn't lead to any meaningful results (unless Ulama is a misspelling of Ulema). Feel free to downvote, but at least explain what it means.
Ulema/Ulama (علماء) refers to Islamic scholars, philosophers and lawyers, they interpret the sharia and today maintain moral/civil laws such as marriage laws. In the game it’s probably flavour text for Muslim clergy.

Umara (أمراء) refers to Amirs, basically the administration of an Islamic realm, such as governors, rulers and other political figures. In the game it’s probably flavour text for Muslim nobles.

They don’t refer to any Indian/Hindu things, but are tied to Islam. These estates exists in EU4 too, along with the Dhimmi (protected people) that refer to non-Muslims that are given the right to practice their religion and build religious buildings in a Muslim realm, historically given to Christians, Jews, Buddhists and Hindus.
 
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Ulema/Ulama (علماء) refers to Islamic scholars, philosophers and lawyers, they interpret the sharia and today maintain moral/civil laws such as marriage laws. In the game it’s probably flavour text for Muslim clergy.

Umara (أمراء) refers to Amirs, basically the administration of an Islamic realm, such as governors, rulers and other political figures. In the game it’s probably flavour text for Muslim nobles.

They don’t refer to any Indian/Hindu things, but are tied to Islam. These estates exists in EU4 too, along with the Dhimmi (protected people) that refer to non-Muslims that are given the right to practice their religion and build religious buildings in a Muslim realm, historically given to Christians, Jews, Buddhists and Hindus.
Thank you!
 
The map of the subcontinent shows the Jethwas only controlling Bhanvad while the Chudasamas have control of what would later become Porbandar. This needs to be changed as the Jethwas controlled the Porbandar region with historical bases in Shrinagar, Chhaya and Ranpar. While Chudasama were quite powerful, it wasn't a one sided affair with the ancient town of Dhank and Somnath being areas that were constantly fought over. Also while the Kutchis had invaded and sacked the Jethwa capital Ghuli in the early 1300s, the Jethwas remained in control of Hala (Jamnagar) until the establishment of Nawanagar by Jam Rawal in the early 1500s.
 
View attachment 1300957

So anyone familiar with Indian history, what's the story here? Why is it so divided and also independent from Delhi when the Deccan was conquered. I remember from a game as Kalinga in Imperator that the area was kind of Jungly and tribal and sort of a buffer region between myself and the Maurya. Is that just it that its sort of a hard to conquer interior region?

Pretty much.

This land between Orissa (at the eastern coast) and Malwa (in the central India area) was (and to an extent still is) a heavily forested area with partially rugged terrain, mostly populated by rather well organized, fortified, heavily populated confederations of tribes, with cultures a bit different from the mainstream Indo-Aryan, Dravidian or Himalayan ones.

For much of history Indian kings and emperors saw little economic value in the place when compared to the heavy, heavy cost of having to fight, garrison and build through a rather dense, rainy jungle. Why would you turn your army there when there are much easier, wealthier places to conquer all around.

Besides, those tribal confederations weren't unfriendly - they allied with local kingdoms nearby and served in armies as mercenaries all the time.

Places around that area like Malwa (Avanti in ancient eras and Imperator) and Orissa (Kalinga in ancient eras and Imperator) were your usual fully-urbanized kingdoms, and hence always got conquered by larger Indian empires and turned into provinces administered by governors (or feudal vassal states or whatever). Meanwhile that tribal region was usually left to its own. The empires would skirt around them/surround them and turn them into tributaries... or just leave them be, and go on with their warmongering and trading.

Sometimes, one of those tribal kingdoms near the periphery would urbanize and become a mainstream state and expand out to become large, as happened with Gondwana kingdom within EU game timeline, or the attempted statehood by the Bhil confederation elsewhere. The modern day area of Chhattisgarh (literally means "thirty-six castles") is right in there - it was part of that tribal area in the ancient era, and over a long period of time most of it became another mainstream settled region like any other part of India.

---

Mauryans in the 2nd century BC were the first empire who actually conquered the area, because Mauryans were unique in Indian history in that they ran a heavily centralized bureaucratic empire and liked to annex and directly control everything. Bad terrain or no, they decided to conquer Kalinga kingdom and the nearby tribals anyway. And it took such a massive toll and bloodshed to go through and finally win, that the previously maniacal raging tyrant emperor (who rose to power fighting and executing his brothers in a civil war for the Indian throne) turned into a haunted PTSD-ridden enlightened Buddhist pacifist and a saint figure in Indian history lol. (you can play him in Imperator, look up Ashoka)

Every Indian empire after them, from antiquity to the gunpowder era (Gupta and Pushyabhuti of the late antiquity, Pala and Pratihara of the early medieval age, Delhi Sultanate and Suri Empire of the high and late medieval age) all mostly turned the tribal confederations into autonomous tributaries/vassals/allies or just left them be. Delhi Sultanate just skirted around them and went on to conquer the southern half of India for a time.

Mughals in 16th and 17th century were, after Mauryans 1600+ years earlier, the second empire to actually disrupt their autonomy. Both because they wanted tax and tribute, and because those tribes kept helping and allying with nearby kingdoms that Mughals were fighting and gobbling up as provinces. And just like Mauryans they gradually won at a very heavy cost, but eventually just did what everyone else had done earlier and let them be autonomous tributaries and left them on their own.

Marathas who replaced the Mughals in most of India seemingly kept that system up for a time (extremely sparse records), although it is known that they did sometimes use tribal territory to launch devastating raids in nearby remnant Mughal provinces. After Maratha Empire - essentially the final empire in Indian history - began to collapse in late 18th century and its provinces splintered into separate kingdoms, one of them - the Nagpur kingdom, maintained partial autonomous tribute on the tribes.

...Then the British arrived, and British'd all over the place. You can pretty much guess how it went. (hint: massive tribal revolts every 3-5 years for the next 150 years or so)
 
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Pretty much.

This land between Orissa (at the eastern coast) and Malwa (in the central India area) was (and to an extent still is) a heavily forested area with partially rugged terrain, mostly populated by rather well organized, fortified, heavily populated confederations of tribes, with cultures a bit different from the mainstream Indo-Aryan, Dravidian or Himalayan ones.

For much of history Indian kings and emperors saw little economic value in the place when compared to the heavy, heavy cost of having to fight, garrison and build through a rather dense, rainy jungle. Why would you turn your army there when there are much easier, wealthier places to conquer all around.

Besides, those tribal confederations weren't unfriendly - they allied with local kingdoms nearby and served in armies as mercenaries all the time.

Places around that area like Malwa (Avanti in ancient eras and Imperator) and Orissa (Kalinga in ancient eras and Imperator) were your usual fully-urbanized kingdoms, and hence always got conquered by larger Indian empires and turned into provinces administered by governors (or feudal vassal states or whatever). Meanwhile that tribal region was usually left to its own. The empires would skirt around them/surround them and turn them into tributaries... or just leave them be, and go on with their warmongering and trading.

Sometimes, one of those tribal kingdoms near the periphery would urbanize and become a mainstream state and expand out to become large, as happened with Gondwana kingdom within EU game timeline, or the attempted statehood by the Bhil confederation elsewhere. The modern day area of Chhattisgarh (literally means "thirty-six castles") is right in there - it was part of that tribal area in the ancient era, and over a long period of time most of it became another mainstream settled region like any other part of India.

---

Mauryans in the 2nd century BC were the first empire who actually conquered the area, because Mauryans were unique in Indian history in that they ran a heavily centralized bureaucratic empire and liked to annex and directly control everything. Bad terrain or no, they decided to conquer Kalinga kingdom and the nearby tribals anyway. And it took such a massive toll and bloodshed to go through and finally win, that the previously maniacal raging tyrant emperor (who rose to power fighting and executing his brothers in a civil war for the Indian throne) turned into a haunted PTSD-ridden enlightened Buddhist pacifist and a saint figure in Indian history lol. (you can play him in Imperator, look up Ashoka)

Every Indian empire after them, from antiquity to the gunpowder era (Gupta and Pushyabhuti of the late antiquity, Pala and Pratihara of the early medieval age, Delhi Sultanate and Suri Empire of the high and late medieval age) all mostly turned the tribal confederations into autonomous tributaries/vassals/allies or just left them be. Delhi Sultanate just skirted around them and went on to conquer the southern half of India for a time.

Mughals in 16th and 17th century were, after Mauryans 1600+ years earlier, the second empire to actually disrupt their autonomy. Both because they wanted tax and tribute, and because those tribes kept helping and allying with nearby kingdoms that Mughals were fighting and gobbling up as provinces. And just like Mauryans they gradually won at a very heavy cost, but eventually just did what everyone else had done earlier and let them be autonomous tributaries and left them on their own.

Marathas who replaced the Mughals in most of India seemingly kept that system up for a time (extremely sparse records), although it is known that they did sometimes use tribal territory to launch devastating raids in nearby remnant Mughal provinces. After Maratha Empire - essentially the final empire in Indian history - began to collapse in late 18th century and its provinces splintered into separate kingdoms, one of them - the Nagpur kingdom, maintained partial autonomous tribute on the tribes.

...Then the British arrived, and British'd all over the place. You can pretty much guess how it went. (hint: massive tribal revolts every 3-5 years for the next 150 years or so)
I see, thank you. Very interesting.
 
37 admin skill seems a bit high for a guy known as the "Mad Sultan" for his disastrous policies. I'd say make it a bit lower.

Well in history, he wasn't the "dysfunctional and incompetent" type of insane, he was the "overly eccentric" type of insane.

For some time he actually ran his empire really well (he was known for being equal parts extremely generous and kind, and very cruel and bloodthirsty, and switched between both very quickly and often), and he was personally a well-educated scholar and a polyglot, as well as a famous general as a prince... until his descent into madness and daily stream of endless 'brilliant' ideas fried his brain.

1337 start is right in the middle of his reign, when he really was insane, but still held all the power.
 
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I might be a bit late, but some estate name changes are sorely due.

Considering the courtly linguistic background of the polity, I'd recommend the following:

Crown ---> Saltanat
Burghers ---> Shehri/Tajir
Commoners ---> Riaya
 
It could potentially be interesting to have an Indo-Persian culture and Urdu language, noted!

Hi Pavia!
As a result of Tinto Flavour #18 and an EU5 review video I watched on youtube, I decided to prepare this text. While preparing it, I got some historical sources and the help of artificial intelligence.

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I watched a gameplay video of EU5. In this video, the youtuber said that he left the construction and management to the artificial intelligence and that it built the necessary structures. Since the artificial intelligence cared about building schools and hospitals and did not manually add mosques, after a while he said that the Balkan region became Turkified but the people remained Orthodox. This seems like a bug, in fact it is completely against the assimilation policies of the Ottoman and Tughluq states, but I think the best part of EU5 is that it is somewhat under the control of the player. I think we should reflect every option in history into the game without going too far beyond reality, after all, there are many rulers in history who changed religion and culture, and even created them.

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Now let's explain the current situation of the Tughluq Dynasty and then list my expectations from the current game:

1- Understanding the Tughluq Dynasty:
This Turkic-origin dynasty, which included Afghan and Tajik ethnic elements, probably spoke an old language close to Karakhanid Turkish, old Turkish or Khwarezm Turkish. However, the Persian communities from which they learned Islam created a religious identity for them as well as the use of the Persian language in the bureaucracy. This actually forms the "Palace Language" mechanic in Crusader Kings 3.

2- Assimilation in the Tughluq Dynasty:
This military class, originating from Gilman and Balaban, adopted the Turkish-Islamic (Persian) palace culture and defined its identity based on religion, and considered non-Muslim elements as its enemies, which created a caste system in which Turks and Muslims were superior within the state, and subjects could only integrate into the state when they became Muslims. However, the distance of Turkish, Arabic and Persian from the local Indian languages was a great debuff for assimilation. They did not have enough cultural population/influence to transform the people. The caste system maintained its continuity with Turkish or other local slaves brought from the slave markets in the Khwarezm/Transaxonia region.

3- Assimilation events that should have happened for the Tughluq Dynasty:
We start the game in perhaps the most complicated period of the Delhi Sultanate. The state cannot establish a bond with the people and is surrounded by enemies. Their enemies are actually so strong that according to my research, they cannot even reach the Mamluk slaves, which are the main element of the state, due to the enemy states in Multan and Sindh. First of all, there should be a quest in the Quest Tree:
"Maintain your connection with the roots" and it should trigger some events. When an alliance is made with the enemy countries in this region or when the Delhi Sultanate annexes them, the Turkish migration from Central Asia should be triggered. This should open 4 different paths for the dynasty:

- Strengthen the Palace and Army
* Reduces negative buffs related to the Palace, increases military capacity
- Revitalize the Settlement Policy
* For example, 1 family that is settled in Central Asian families starts to transform the culture in a way that will affect four families, changes linguistically and culturally (clothing) according to the situation of the mosques and schools in the region, portraits change over time according to the nature of the migration they receive
- Assimilate the newcomers (if the ruler has adopted Hinduism or another religion)
* The Hinduized dynasty, as if taking revenge on its past, does not accept Muslims to practice their traditions.
- The Hindavi/Dehlavi people in the provinces close to the palace in Delhi taking on a more Turkic appearance.

- How did the decisions taken by the Tughluq Dynasty trigger developments in history?
There should be events that will be triggered as a result of the decisions taken by the palace and the constructions it made:

* The birth of Urdu! The language spoken by the Hindavi/Dahlavi people takes on a new form (For example, in a scenario where the dynasty remains under Chinese influence, this hybrid people who become the main element of the state should speak Urdu with more dominant Chinese words.

* The Urdu nation is born! This hybrid people, who resemble a typical Turko-Persian community with their language, religion and culture, defend a different affiliation with their Central Asian roots despite their similar appearance to Indians!

* If it is an Indianized dynasty, there may be special events for this

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FOUR STAGE ASSIMILATION MECHANICS (Based on CK3)

MIGRATION
- Dominance of the migrating population and local justified removal
- It is taken in line with what the state takes.
- It increases rebellions to a great extent. Central Asian type migration model

INSTITUONAL ASSIMILATION
- As the state builds structures such as places of worship, schools, madrasahs, there is a transformation in the people
- Instead of cultural change in conquered lands, both linguistic and religious assimilation occurs in the communities there. (Ottoman type assimilation model Bosnians and Albanians)
- Religious, cultural and linguistic assimilation of the local people taken into the army, retired soldiers mix with the local people and assimilate the society (people who are considered to belong to the primary identity group but have the genetic characteristics of the secondary culture group)

LINGUISTIC/ETHNIC HYBRIDIZATION

- Communities that are geographically distant from the culture they belong to; When communities like Mamluks, Cumans or Yugurs were dominant:
- If there was cultural distance but intense interaction - New Hybrid Culture Formed
- Natural evolution in an environment left without coercion by the state: Birth of Urdu (Tughluq dynasty model of assimilation. The elite minority was above the whole society, the local people created a hybrid language inspired by the Palace language in order to integrate into the order)
- Event Chain: "Linguistic oppression failed: "New angelic culture emerged"

EVOLUTONARY ASSIMILATION

- Dynamic cultural evolution over time, regional density and intermarriage. Character portraits according to the population of the primary culture in the regions where the cultural groups in the country were located, the new community naming itself. "Please do not do this with names like Turco-Persian or Greco-Bulgarian. I want to follow the change adventure of the local, secondary culture group within itself, and see these culture groups and communities transform. (Ancient Thracians, Thracian Turks, etc.)
- The feature of progressing with AI and player initiative should continue
- The existing primary culture should not resemble the original in the border provinces:
Example: The Indian-Turkish mixed "Dehlavi" Culture spreading to different provinces, but not resembling the Dehlavi in Delhi

Event buffs/debuffs

"Surface Assimilation buff" (Tughluk model)
- Culture does not change but rebellions decrease
- Speeds up the process leading to Urdu

"Khwarazm Migration" Event Chain
- Refugee flow from Khwarezm: Brings Turkic soldiers and families, increases the population, and increases the Turkic origin rate in cultures. (such as the culture aesthetics, culture language, femininity and masculinity found in ck3)

---One of two ways open:
A) Use Only for Military Service:
Assimilation is slow (when soldiers retire)
Turkish Culture remains limited to the elite class
B) Place it in the public and integrate.
Cultural dominance increases
Delhi and the surrounding states of Dehlavi culture gain 5% - 15% Turkish population
Portraits change with marriages as in CK3
Over time, Hindavi culture turns into a Turkic culture.

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What I have explained may seem complicated. However, in history, every Turkish state or every state shapes the community it is in according to the conditions. I have mentioned Migration the least among the mechanics. This is as simple as the "Missionary implements religious assimilation" we did in EU4. One tribe expelled another tribe. It is quite logical for Horde type states. However, the subject of assimilation has different depths in the Ottomans or Tughluqs. The Tughluqs were actually as interested in the transformation of the people as the Ottomans. They just did not have a Muslim population like Anatolia and there was no Turkish migration that they could feed on. However, modern Urdu and Indo-Islamic identity started in this community. Perhaps a state spirit mechanism is introduced and even if the dynasty adopts the local culture, a mechanism that will trigger migrations from those geographies as the state approaches the geography where its ancestors lived can fix the "culture of the Sultan of Delhi" confusion. We cannot say that it has become Persian just because it speaks Persian. The Turkic-Persian-Tajik communities of that period acted together in superordinate identities, with a single identity centered on religion, without losing their own identities. In the 500-year period extending from the 1200s to the 1700s, we can see the stories of modernization with the peoples assimilated by the Delhi Sultanate, which was affected by modernism, and I think you can create a mechanic in EU5 where we can radically affect cultural textures with each new save and actually transform every culture in terms of fundamentals and genetics. This may come later as a DLC, but a game of this scale definitely needs to have this depth of gameplay.

""Finally, please correct the Ottoman Sultan who changed to Selahattin Eyyubi. Please! These types of mistakes deeply hurt the Turkish player base.""
* You may also consider using terms such as Khan or Sultan Khan for Turkish-Muslim rulers.
 

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