Tinto Flavour #32 - 18th of July 2025 - Inca

[Sebroar]

For what it's worth, the three-way stop distinction only exists in the Cusco dialect of the Incas and the Bolivian ones which don't exist yet in 1337. It was likely an Aymara pronunciation loaned into Quechua. No other Quechua dialects have the ejective consonants and I'm not sure about the aspirated ones either.

Anyways great job, love to see consistent naming.

I think there is another dialect with aspirated stops, but I'm not completely sure. In any case, just like ejectives, aspiration is loaned from Aymara, and is pretty much exclusive to Cusco, Cusco influenced and Aymara influenced dialects. It's definitely not reconstructed for Proto-Quechua, again like ejectives.
Maybe the best way to deal with the issue would be to do at least two dialects, one for Cusco with ejectives and aspirated stops, and one for all other Quechua varieties. More would be better, but they can always be added after the game is released. They should already be in-game though, even without unique words.

 

[Raftz]

Shouldn't the Panaqa building should be staffed by Nobility, as they are the landowning elite descended from the former monarch?

 

[Bosporus]

Ayllu is too small to use because it's just one or maybe two villages. But Llaqta and Suyu have potential.

If you look at a map of wamani you will notice that they mostly correspond to individual locations. They were quite small and there were very many of them. So I guess if they are used, they would fit better as the lowest rank.

Yeah, it's tricky to match up the scale while also getting things in the right order. If we use Wamani for the lowest rank, then do we slide Suyu down to duchy rank? or insert something in between Wamani and Suyu at the duchy rank?

But I do agree that llaqta has potential - it just seems to have so many potential meanings: town, city, nation, fatherland, confederation of ayllu, or even a general location where one is from ("lugar generalmente [de] donde es cada uno"). It seems to most commonly mean town or village, but it's also used (uncited) on the Quechua wiki page for the Inca Empire as an alternate title: "Qhapaq Inka hatun llaqtam" - seemingly used to connote a sovereign state.

I do think llaqta could work (adopting the "confederation of ayllu" definition) as a duchy-level non-vassal title though - in lieu of the unattested (AFAIK) Hatun Suyu (although I do like that the earlier proposal keeps suyu throughout the titles). I'll add it to the original post as an option!

 

[juanfegonzalezce]

Please add more historical settled tags! Would make the region a lot more fun.

There should be settled tags on the Andes all the way down from Salta up north to Popayán, as well as the Muisca in central Colombia, who should be divided into the chiefdom of Bacatá (with the tags of Ubaté and Ubaque as their vassals), Hunza (with the tags of Tenasuca, Saquencipá and Tinjacá as theri vassals), Guatavita, Tundama, Suamox and Guane. They could have a "IO" for them to simulate the Muisca Confederation.

 

[nyetflix2]

I think there is another dialect with aspirated stops, but I'm not completely sure

Apparently Ecuadorian Kichwa has them. But again that shouldn't exist yet in 1337.

 

[Sebroar]

Apparently Ecuadorian Kichwa has them. But again that shouldn't exist yet in 1337.

Oh, so the one I was thinking was a Northern Quechua dialect. Well, good to know. But yeah, that didn't exist in 1337, it came into existance following the Incan conquest of the region.

 

[keaswaran]

How about with every new game you "sneak" more Swedish words in, till you slowly make use Swedish #softpower XD

Gimme gimme gimme Spotify on my Nappeby speakers.

 

[Strager]

Is there a way to unlock Polygyny for other religions/cultures?

 

[Friedrich von Deutschland]

Is it possible to reform panaqas away without just ditching your institutional flavor entirely? They seem to have no upsides once you run out of territory to expand into so you'd want to get rid of them, but if you need to ditch your main regional flavor reform without replacement that would be a shame.

 

[Friedrich von Deutschland]

I really dislike that the name of the Inca Empire is just "Inca"... it should either be "the Inca Empire" or "Tawantinsuyu" (perhaps toggled by a rule like Byzantium), but not just "Inca", because that's still just the name of the ruler, and we don't call Ancient Egypt just "Pharaoh" either

I'd prefer Tawantinsuyu myself, it's the most flavorful and there's not really a good translation since "land of four parts" kinda sucks in english.

 

[matfer13]

The Panaquas should employ nobles instead of pesants to represent the members of the royal family acting as managers of the previous ruler possessions

 

[matfer13]

-I think that this government reform should just be called Tawantinsuyu without the monarchy in it, unless there are other versions of this for other types of government
-The country is usually referred as Inca Empire with the word Inca being used both as a name and adjective, the word Incan is not wrong but it has the same logic as Mali(it's called the Mali Empire rather than Malian Empire)
-"from its monarchy origins" is wrong, it should be "from its monarchical origins"

 

[crowdemon]

Good Tinto Flavour on the Inca.

 

[AvatarThomas]

Here is the extension of the 'Andean' culture group, using or new, lovely contextual map modes:
View attachment 1335667

Suggestion - make the culture list, which is present here, and in any other list, sorted from A to Z for a much easier read.

 

[Gurtannon]

Suggestion - make the culture list, which is present here, and in any other list, sorted from A to Z for a much easier read.

I would prefer it sorted by from largest population culture to lowest, as it will define the importance, just looking at alohabetical order would feel boring unless you are looking for a spesific culture, the best decision would be add sorted by setting above the culture group so you can change the order whatever you want

 

[Sebroar]

Suggestion - make the culture list, which is present here, and in any other list, sorted from A to Z for a much easier read.

I would prefer it sorted by from largest population culture to lowest, as it will define the importance, just looking at alohabetical order would feel boring unless you are looking for a spesific culture, the best decision would be add sorted by setting above the culture group so you can change the order whatever you want

The devs said multiple times that all these lists can be sorted in many different ways, and players can change the order at any time. I think in this case they're ordered by acceptance in your country.

 

[Gurtannon]

The devs said multiple times that all these lists can be sorted in many different ways, and players can change the order at any time. I think in this case they're ordered by acceptance in your country.

For ledger lists, yes, but we are talking about tooltip lists, and nobody said anything about them being sortable, and there is no sorting option at the corner of the tooltip thus it seems like there is no way to sort

 

[Sebroar]

For ledger lists, yes, but we are talking about tooltip lists, and nobody said anything about them being sortable, and there is no sorting option at the corner of the tooltip thus it seems like there is no way to sort

View attachment 1336109

Oh, you mean the one in the tooltip? My bad.
Yeah, that one does not have any way to be sorted, but I guess you can get the same list in the ledger using the appropriate filters, therefore making it sortable

 

[blueblaze873]

I have returned to discuss more on the Inca. It will probably be a bit all over the place so I hope it will be understandable enough.

First off I would like to say that I like all of the minor pop growth modifiers but I have to ask would they be enough for the Andes to reach the widely agreed upon 8-10 million pops prior to the arrival of Columbus. If not then besides potentially increasing normal pop numbers and more pop growth modifiers may I also suggest more ways to increase pop capacity in locations besides the one building that increases it by a small amount. My understanding is that the mountain terrain has a lot of negative effects including but not limited to lowered pop capacity in locations. Maybe a possible advance or simply adding an estate privilege to that can increase pop capacity in rough terrain could help balance the numbers.

Speaking of balance I see that the panaqas building seems to have such a heavy negative modifier attached to it. Rather than reforming your religion to get rid of the building I think a good way to balance this negative modifier is to make it easier as the Incas to gain the legitimacy necessary to destroy these buildings via ways such as legitimacy gained from battles won with an army led by a monarch general similar to how it was done in Eu4 with Inca Authority. That way it keeps the flavor of the panaqas while also allowing the player to better able to interact with the panaqas buildings. Speaking of the panaqas I believe the building should be maintained by nobles rather than peasants since it was the relatives of the nobility who were in charge of the estates owned by the mummies. I also have a question regarding the panaqas building, do the panaqas get rebuilt in the same location after having previously been destroyed in the event of another monarch death or are locations no longer viable to get panaqas after previously getting one from an older monarch death?

For the Quipu advance I also think that buff should be reworked to give a small buff of max literacy to all pops instead of the huge (but inconsequential) buff of max literacy for just the clergy. The quipu was extensively used for over a thousand years by the people of the Andes so it would be more accurate to give a small overall buff to max literacy instead.

It was already mentioned before but please buff the tambo building in a significant way since the way it is currently implemented doesn’t seem like it would have much use. Speaking of other previously mentioned things I just want to quickly say that the god Pacha Kamaq should be added into the pantheon of the Inti religion considering how important the god was to the point that the Incas consider it to be equal/near equal to Inti which was extremely rare for them to do for the deities of the people they conquered.

Is there an event regarding the Machu Picchu and also is it considered a building in game or a work of art? Speaking of art I believe the Andean nations whether via an advance, estate privilege or gov reform should have something referencing their skilled artistry with clay, wool, cloth, etc. by giving them more culture tradition beyond the small buff they get for being Inti. I believe this is important since the traditions of the indigenous peoples of the Andes has survived and is celebrated even to this day in Peru and Bolivia.

Is there any flavor to how the people of the Inca Empire viewed the Sapa Inka as a god like being similar to how it was done in Eu4 by giving them access to Divine ideas. When the Sapa Inka was captured by the conquistadors and eventually killed, his death dealt such a huge blow to the morale of the armies that I feel it is somewhat important to reflect this attitude in gameplay in some way if possible.

All I got to say is that while I obviously don’t expect everything I mentioned in the Inca flavor and Inti tinto talks to be implemented/improved in game I hope to see a significant majority of it implemented either at launch or soon after launch with DLC along with the cosmetics. If I have more I want to add or note than I will be back to include it in a later comment. Thank you Devs for your hard work and taking in feedback

 

[Solo_Adhémar]

Is there anything wrong with this design attributed to the banner of the Sapa Inca? I probably would've chosen something based on it rather than something completely imaginary (this is at least based on 17th century accounts), but that's just me.

View attachment 1335645

Imaginary is a very subjective point of view as western iconography like this would look entirely foreign to these people (on top of the concept of emblems itself). None of these design elements look like anything any precolumbian andean cultures would have ever used (the closest that I can think of would be Moche designs for the snakes) and you can trust that if this ever existed in any shape or form, the composition itself would have been vastly different than this (precisely because this was designed for a coat of arms in the spanish chronicle). Probably so much so that we wouldn't recognize a precolumbian equivalent of the same design at first glance : twin columns of intertwined serpents of many heads or more likely for Amaru a twin headed serpent duality design like we have so many examples of.

Also, if this was genuinely valid, why not directly the coat of arms of the Inca empire itself represented in the same chronicle ?