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Tinto Maps #10 - 12th of July 2024 - Syrian Levant & Egypt

Hello everyone, and welcome to another Tinto Maps! We’re back after celebrating the most important victories over Germany and France since the 30 Years War a hard week of work, and we’re ready to share with you the region of the Syrian Levant & Egypt (actually, we’re revealing a bit more of what those regions would be, to cover the complete extension of the Mamlūk Sultanate). Let’s go!

Countries:
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The Mamlūk Sultanate is the main power of the region, a situation achieved after the defeat of the Mongols at the Battles of Ain Jalut and Marj al-Saffar, and the fall of Acre, the last stronghold of the Crusader states in Outremer. The latter's legacy is still handled by the Kingdom of Cyprus, ruled by Hugues IV of Lusignan. Apart from that, we can see the realm of Candia, a subject governed by the Serene Republic of Venice, and some Arabic tribes, such as the Hutaym and the Anizah. Oh, and also, to the south-west, you might have noticed some oases ruled by either the Mamluks, or Fezzan; I opted for not coloring the wastelands, as usual, but also the corridors, a type of terrain present in other GSGs, that we have in Project Caesar. I’ll talk more about them under the ‘Locations’ section of the DD, but I just want to note one more thing: the connection down the Nile is a regular one, with a border existing between the Mamluks and Makuria (the country that controls the small chunk of land at the very south of the image).

Dynasties:
Dynasties.png

The Bahri Mamluks have ruled the Sultanate since they deposed the Ayyubids, almost a century before the start of the game. It could maybe be a bit more accurate to depict Sultan al-Nasir Muhammad as an ibn Qalawun (‘of the lineage of Qalawun’), but the dynastical dynamics of the Mamluk rulers are not so easy to portray, so we opted for the moment to better use Bahriyya. Apart from that, you may also see the neighboring dynasties, such as the already-mentioned House of Lusignan, or the Hethumian of Cilicia.

Locations:
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Here you can see the locations of the entire region, and also closer chunks behind the ‘Spoiler’ button. The most interesting feature to talk about is that of the corridors, something that some of you might remember from ‘Imperator: Rome’, but also something new to the rest. The corridors are empty locations, with no population or resources, but that allows connection between the locations at their sides, for some mechanics that we’ve already mentioned (market access, control), and some others that we haven’t (army movement). This is the way that we’ve chosen to portray the Saharan corridors, that allow for a connection between the Maghreb and the Mashreq, and Western and Central Africa. There are also some regular locations over those corridors, with population, resources, etc., that can be controlled by countries, which portray the desert oases that made for important outposts in the different Saharan routes. Not all the connections are throughout corridors, though; outside of the image, the Nile River valley allows for regular locations all the way down from Egypt to Nubia, the last location held by the Mamluks being that of Aswan, while the first held by Makuria, not shown in the screenshot, being Qasr Ibrim. We will talk more about Nubia and Ethiopia in a future Tinto Maps.

Provinces:
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Usual provinces mapmode; please let us know of any spelling or naming suggestions that come to your mind.

Areas:
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A new mapmode that has been requested in previous Tinto Maps, and that we’re now incorporating.

Terrain:
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The climate is dominated by a mix of Mediterranean, Arid, and Cold Arid. The topography of the region is quite flat, with some hills and mountains on Mount Lebanon and Anti-Lebanon, Mount Sinai, and the verge of the Arabian plateau; and some marshland over the Nile Delta, of course. Regarding the vegetation, desert and sparse vegetation dominate most of the region, with some woods and forests over Levant, and the Nile fertile farmlands, the bread basket of the Eastern Mediterranean.

Cultures:
Cultures.png

Here starts the fun… Those countries ruling over the Middle East will face the challenge of managing several different cultural minorities. Libyan, Egyptian, Sa'idi, Bedouin, Ḥijāzī, Najidi (the green one to their right), Levantine, and Iraqi (the light blue at the top right of the picture) are all different regional cultures of Arabic-speaking people. Something interesting is that most of Bedouin pops are tribesmen, instead of peasants, portraying their traditional social organization. Coming to important minority groups, Coptic people are quite important in Egypt, accounting for about 10% of the population of the Mamlūk Sultanate. The other important minority are the Syriacs, as they also account for another 10% of the population, and are a cultural majority in a few locations. Apart from those, there are also Armenians, Kurds, and Turkomans on the divide between Anatolia, Syria, and Jazira, Alawites Shiites in Syria, Mizrahi Jews all over the region, Samaritans in Palestine, and Greeks in Crete, Cyprus, and some in Alexandria. Oh, also the Saharan cultures of the Eastern Berbers and the Toubou over some of the Saharan oases.

Religions:
Religion.png

More fun. In this region, we have:
  • Sunni Muslims
  • Miaphysite Christians
  • Orthodox Christians
  • Shia Muslims
  • Catholic Christians
  • Druzes
  • Jews
  • Nestorian Christians (the ‘label’ we’re using to depict the Church of the East)
  • Samaritans
  • Yazidi

Relating these religions to the previous cultures, we can tell you most of the Arabic-speaking cultures are Sunni Muslims, with some Shia Muslims in Syria and Lebanon. Most of the Coptic are Miaphysite, adhering to the Patriarchate of Alexandria, although some of there still follow the Orthodoxy of Constantinople. The Syriacs are also religiously divided, with some being Nestorians (the current name we have to cover the confessions related to the Church of the East), some Miaphysites, some Orthodox, and even some Catholics in Lebanon. And then we have some cultural-religious minorities, such as the Alawite Shiites, the Druzes (which are of Levantine culture), the Mizrahi Jews, the Samaritans, and the Yazidi (which are of Kurd culture).


Raw Materials:
Raw Materials.png

There are some materials that are more unique to this region, such as the Dates in the arid fringes. The Nile Valley and Delta are incredibly fertile, having plenty of different crops: Wheat, Rice, Legumes, Sugar, Cotton, Fiber Crops (=Linen), etc. Livestock, Wool, and Horses are also important resources for the people across the region. There are also some metals present in the region, such as Copper in Cyprus and around the Red Sea, Iron, Tin, some Lead, and some interesting sources of Alum.

Markets:
Markets.png

The main market centers of the region are Alexandria (yeah, it’s there! I’ve already reported its weird name-wrapping and one of our programmers is going to take a look at it) for the Mashreq, Damascus for the Syrian Levant and Mecca for the Hejaz.

Country and Location Population:
Country Population .png

Location Population 1.png

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The population of the region points to Egypt being its powerhouse, with several million people being supported being the Nile Valley and Delta. Apart from that, the Syrian Levant has a very decent population, making the Mamlūk Sultanate a dreadful rival to have in 1337. The arid fringes make for a way more difficult food production and population sustainability, making them more of strategic value, by their position, resources, etc.

And that’s all for today! Next week @Johan will show you Scandinavia, the very first map that was crafted for Project Caesar! Cheers!
 
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The map looks amazing, but here's some suggestions coming from an Egyptian:

1. Rename the "Egyptian" culture into "Masri" instead, and merge Sa'aidi into them since, as vyshan said, if Greek isn't subdivided into Cretan and Cypriot why should Sa'aidi be subdivided from "Masri" when the main differences is the accent.

2. In the Area map mode rename upper Egypt into "Al Sa'aid" or "Sa'aid Masr" and for lower Egypt it can be either "Al Wajh Al Bahri" , "Bahri" or "Reef Masr" all of these are historical names of lower Egypt.

3. In the provinces map mode Western Oases can just be simplified to "Al Wahat" and Red Sea Coast is a pretty modern name (check the current red sea governorate) a better name for it would be "Khalij As Suways" which means the Gulf of Suez, or for a more historical name you could do "Bahr Al Qulzum" although I am not too sure if Qulzum would be the name of the settlement at this point and anyone can feel free to correct me on this.


Other than that, here's some suggestions for more locations:

Sharqiya Province:
1. Tannis is a bit weird, I assume you mean San Al Hagar which is an ancient Egyptian city and currently a small village. In that case you could do Al Farma, which has since lost it's importance due to neglect from the local sultans, but it would be better than San Al Hagar

Gharbiya Province:
1. Tidah can be replaced with either Dumaynaqun (older name for Kafr El-Sheikh) or Al Faragon (older name for Sidi Salem)

2. Damietta (Dumyat) should take most of the north eastern pixels of the Mansoura location, since it's on the eastern side of the nile, and most of the pixels of of Damietta that is on the west of the Nile should be a new location called Sherbin (شربين)

I have no idea what that strip of land north of Fuwa is, and I think it should just be part of Fuwa as there isn't really any settlement of historical note in that region

Red Sea Coast Province:

Looks fine, but you could rename Suez to Qulzum like I said before in my 3 point

Cairo Province:

I would make Fayyium accessible by one location, that is called "Al Lahun" as it's on a plateau, and there's pretty much one or two ways to access it at this time period.

Upper Egypt looks great, I would just add new locations to make it longer and harder for armies to access, as it historically (for instance when Napoleon invaded Egypt) was a very tough valley to occupy. That's basically it, thank you for reading this and I hope to see another map of Egypt after it's updated.
 
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What are the woods on the edge of the Syrian desert?
That is in Jabal al-Druze. The location producing lumber is "Sakhad", although I'm pretty sure that location is actually called "Salkhad" irl so it might be a typo (by the way, I'm not even sure that location should realistically produce lumber).
 
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Is there going to be a equivalent to a 'great project' for the Temple of the Oracle of Amun in Siwa? Asking for a friend who may or may not want to vicariously live out the conquests of a certain ambitious Macedonian...
 
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I don't know much about the region, so my suggestions are pretty generic:
1. I think you should really split up the Saharan wastelands so that they look nicer when coloured-in. Right now those borders of Upper Egypt are killing me.
2. I feel like it would be more appropriate to rename "Miaphysitism" into "Oriental Orthodoxy", since that's what their religion is called; "miaphysite" just describes their preferred Bible headcanon theology. That may be confusing to players unfamiliar with history, but I don't think that's the target demographic for PDX games.
3. The raw goods' colours are still kinda awful. The biggest offenders here are fish, which is too greenish, blending in with beans/legumes, as well as dates - those sweet sweet fruits have the same colour as sand. Fish should be more light blue and dates should be red-orange-brownish more like the actual thing.

I also have two questions the answer to which might be turned into a suggestion:
1. What is the reason for the existance of Sinai as a separate area? Why is Sinai it's own area while places like Palestine or Syria are not? I think it would make sense for Sinai to be a part of Levant, unless there's some game design rationale behind it being that way.
2. Some of the oases are owned by a country called "Fezzan", but it doesn't seem like "Fezzan" was ever a separate country, just the name of the region. I assume it's a placeholder country before the Maghreb TT (since EU4 also had a country called Fezzan), but maybe I'm just stupid and couldn't find the proper information about it.
I know nothing of Fezzan, but Sinai was never considered part of the levant/Al Sham/greater Syria, while Syria and Palestine were
 
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Since we are talking about the "gate to the indian ocean trade" region, and I see that fruits are differentiated from dates as raw materials, I want to raise the question: why no differentiating different spices? I am confident the developers already tested many different solutions, so I would like to have an answer. My concern is that, if all spice-producing locations are the same, you risk having no need for reaching indonesia as a colonizer, since India produces more than enough spices already (I guess). I understand that having your burgers getting angry because you did not manage to get spices from each single market in the world reaching yours is stupid gameplay wise, nonetheless a mid-way solution might work. For example, differentiating a few spice groups based on geography (e.g. middle eastern, indian, indonesian, chinese and mesoamerican) might also give the possibility of differentiating the type of spice based on culture (persians don't really use cloves and nutmeg for example, while europeans barely know what chinese spices are). My question is genuine, since spice trade was indeed a huge deal during the time span of Project EU.... SORRY I meant Ceasar V.

As always thanks for your work. Also let me know if such discussion is really off topic here.
 
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I'm no expert but seeing upper egypt area reach up almost to the coast of the mediterranean seems really strange to me. Definitely could use a split into two areas, Western Desert and Upper Egypt proper.
 
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The only area I think definitely needs a split is probably the Levant. It is just simply extremely massive both in area, population and amount of locations compared to anything else we have seen from the map, and I don't know the gameplay implications of it, but I am afraid of its implications
 
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I don't think Damascus shouldn't be its own market since it was never the biggest city in the area of Syria until the recent civil war. Instead the market should be called Aleppo or Antioch. Damascus was a very important city in the area at the time but nobles were probably more likely to go to Aleppo because it had more key industries other then just iron
 
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The only area I think definitely needs a split is probably the Levant. It is just simply extremely massive both in area, population and amount of locations compared to anything else we have seen from the map, and I don't know the gameplay implications of it, but I am afraid of its implications
It will be great for Roman reconquest after eating the ottomans and asia minor
 
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That's kind of the point, though. Using it to represent all Copts creates inherent problems when actually playing out the game, we may not know exactly when Coptic died as a spoken language, but we know when it was living, and it was at the game's start-date. Of course, that means that the extension of Coptic culture would become something of a (bigger, because anyway pops are educated guesses) guess, but not exactly a difficult one to work out – Take the current Miaphysite pops, pick those at the rural parts of Lower Egypt, and most of those at Upper Egypt, and you have a reasonable take on what it would roughly look like.

Most importantly to my point, however, is that doing what i said:

Makes it so that the game portrays things better at a gaming level, and can be applied more generally for more accurate representation of other, similar situations. The only requirement for that to work is that Coptic speakers exist in 1337, and we know that they do, and they kept existing at least for the next four hundred years. It has been mentioned that they would be a minority of the Myaphisites, and i mean, probably (But considering how Lower Egypt/Cairo Copts got a harsh hand under the last century Mamluk rule, the proportion gap is most likely balanced by the amount of Arabized Copts that were persecuted out of Christianity), it still would be a sizable enough community to be portrayed in-game, and it would make the game work better in game terms, which i think it's way more important when dealing with this situation.

In the way that things are now, a Coptic culture pop converts to Islam while you play, and you simply may go ?????? and feel that it's gamey, because well, aren't Copts supposed to be Christian? It icks out immersion. But in a situation where the culture and the religion are clearly divided, things would make more sense: A Coptic culture pop converting to Islam is simply a Coptic-speaking Muslim, just as a Egyptian culture pop that is Christian is simply a Arabic-speaking Copt, or Melkite (there's also this, in current terms, "Coptic" culture is integrating the Orthodox christians, which shouldn't be the case).

Anyway, as i said, the current state is OK in accuracy terms, the problem is the stated conceptualization issues around ethnoreligious groups in a game where culture and religion aren't intrinsically related for pops.
I would rather have the game just be able to represent the tight connection between culture and religion rather than have stopgap measures, in fact in your example a Coptic speaker converting to Islam and his sons not immediately becoming Masri/Egyptian would be as immersion breaking.
 
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I think as more Middle Eastern dev diaries are released, we will see more of a need to add in ethnoreligion mechanics and ethnoreligious groups. Jews, Samaritans, Mandaeans, Alawites, Druzes, Yazidis, Copts...
 
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Is there going to be a equivalent to a 'great project' for the Temple of the Oracle of Amun in Siwa? Asking for a friend who may or may not want to vicariously live out the conquests of a certain ambitious Macedonian...
Doesn't make any sense, maybe if a Pagan country somehow takes possession of it.

This reminds me, the Lighthouse of Alexandria and Mausoleum of Halicarnassus are actually still standing at game start (albeit heavily damaged by earthquakes and soon dismantled so their materials can be used for other constructions). Wonder if they'll be represented somehow?
 
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IMO you should scrap the disconnected provinces in the middle of theSahara or make the lands connecting them colonize-able. They look awful, the control over the Saharan tribes by outside powers was minimal to non existent, and they had barely any population or economic output to be relevant enough to justify their inclusion. Might as well go all the way or not at all
 
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Will the Al Fadl tribe be added as a Mamluk Vassal?
The same applies to the Al Ali and Al Mira tribes.
During the Mamluk era, the Al Fadl's territory spanned the area between Homs in the west to Qal'at Ja'bar in the northeast and all along the Euphrates valley through the countryside of Basra southward to the Washm region in central Najd.[13] Mamluk patronage of the Al Fadl enabled them to dominate the other Bedouin tribes of the Syrian Desert.[14] A rival sub-branch of Al Fadl, the Al ʿAli, controlled the Ghouta region of Damascus and the northern Arabian regions of Tayma and al-Jawf, while Al Mira controlled the area of Jawlan southward to the al-Harrah hot springs in Hejaz.[13] Other branches of the Banu Tayy controlled regions within the Banu Rabi'ah's territory. Among them were the Shammar and Banu Lam in the north Arabian mountains of Jabal Ajaʾ and Jabal Salma.
Banu_Tayy_of_Syria.png
Will the Emirate of Kilis be added to the game?
Will the Ayyubid ruler of the emirate Hama Al-Afdal Muhammad be represented in any way?
Will Lebanon be filled with small principalities that are Mamluk vassals?


Countries.png
 
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1. What is the reason for the existance of Sinai as a separate area? Why is Sinai it's own area while places like Palestine or Syria are not? I think it would make sense for Sinai to be a part of Levant, unless there's some game design rationale behind it being that way.
I think it should be part of Egypt since historically the Sinai was typically part of Egypt.
 
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IMO you should scrap the disconnected provinces in the middle of theSahara or make the lands connecting them colonize-able. They look awful, the control over the Saharan tribes by outside powers was minimal to non existent, and they had barely any population or economic output to be relevant enough to justify their inclusion. Might as well go all the way or not at all
This is a terrible idea. The oases are relevant as the only fixed population centres in the desert, and military campaigns in the region historically focused on them. You are proposing to add an entirely fake and made up event to the game of Egypt colonising some random desert provinces for no reason, because of ignorant notions of what you think looks bad aesthetically on a map.
 
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