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Tinto Maps #11 - 19th of July 2024 - Scandinavia

Welcome everyone, today I’ll talk about the Scandinavian region. Part of it was the first maps we drew for Project Caesar back in early spring of 2020. Today we will look at all parts of the Scandinavian Peninsula (including Denmark & the Kola Peninsula). Greenland & Iceland will be looked at in a separate map talk.

Countries
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Scandinavia has only five location based countries at the start of the game. Denmark, who is in a bit of a crisis at the moment and their vassal Schleswig is in the south. On the peninsula proper, we have Sweden and Norway who are in a union at the moment as they share the same King. Scania was sold off to Sweden by the Danes five years before the start of the game.

There is no need to show off a Dynasty map, as Denmark does not exactly have a ruling King at the moment, and the rest is ruled by Magnus IV of the Bjälbo Dynasty.

Locations

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While Scandinavia has a lot of locations, we have to remember that this is a huge area, and together with Kola & Karelia, it is the same size as France, Spain, Portugal, Italy & Benelux together.. The size of locations are smaller in the south, particularly where the population was and still is relatively bigger.


Provinces
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We have tried to follow historical traditional province borders here, but some ended up too big like Småland, Lappland or Österbotten, which were cut into pieces, and some are just too tiny to matter.

Now I wish I had time to write up a history about each province here, but I’ll just add a few fun tidbits.

Satakunta, which is the Finnish name, is named in Finnish like the old regions of Svitjod, which were divided into “hundreds”. It was also refered to Björneborgs län, named after Björneborg (Pori in Finnish), a town founded by Johan III when Ulfsby was no longer accessible from the sea. The regiment from the area was the last Swedish Army Regiment that has ever won a battle inside Sweden, and their military march is a song I think every Finnish Citizen want to play repeatedly on TV during the Olympics..

Småland, which is divided into Tiohärad and Kalmar Län here, should really be referred to as Småländerna, as there were 12 small countries there.. Compared to the 3 other much larger countries of Svealand, Östra Götaland and Västra Götaland. And now why is Östra Götaland not containing Kinda?

Topograhy
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It's mostly flatland.. I went by the rule that if the peaks are less than 500 meters it's flatland, and you need to have over 1,000 meters and rather uneven to be a mountain. Norway is interesting there.. We do have a lot of impassable areas in Norway, making this one of the most fun parts to play in.

Vegetation
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There are some farmlands in Denmark, Scania and in Götaland, but the rest is basically a big forest.. And up north it's even worse.

Climate
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Yeah, well. There is a reason I moved to Spain..


Cultures
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Most of the north east is still Sami, and the Finnish tribes have not unified into the more modern Finnish culture. We decided to call the modern Meänkieli with their more ancient name of Kven. We still have Gutnish on Gotland, but the Norwegian, Danish and Swedish cultures have been becoming more monolithic already.

Religions
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The Finnish are mostly Catholic, but the Sami, Tavastian, Savonia, Bjarmian and Karelians are mostly still following their old pagan beliefs. There are still some Norse people in the forests of Dalarna and Västmanland..

Raw Materials
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It is mostly lumber, fish, wild game, fur and iron. We of course have the famous copper mountain as well.

Markets
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Scandinavia is divided by the rich markets of Lübeck and Riga. A strong Scandinavian country will probably want to set up their own unified market.


Population
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Not many people live up in the north..
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I liked nice round numbers as estimates, but the team I hired for content design are mad men, and wanted the distribution to feel more organic.. For the far north of Scandinavia we know that people were semi nomadic, and that some people lived there.. But if it was 100 there, or 250 there or 20 there it's just guesswork..


And let's end with a quote from the Greatest of Poets..

Jag vill, jag skall bli frisk, det får ej prutas,
Jag måste upp, om jag i graven låg.
Lyss, hör, ni hör kanonerna vid Jutas;
Där avgörs finska härens återtåg.


Next week Pavia is back with some German maps…
 
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matfer13 said:
It's really nice of you guys having so many Finno-Ugric cultures in the game considering they are all gonna di...culture converted in like 100 years:)
Click to expand...
You can still play as the Kingdom of Hungary and as a revenge culture convert everyone from Constantinople to Lapland.
 
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That... looks like a LOT of free real estate ready for the taking/colonization in the northern part of the map.
 
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I’m fine with arctic climate going so far south. Guess it will represent how cold the inland winters can be in this area, and also well represent how cold the climate became in this era from the 1350’s and also in later periods ( little ice age).

Really looking forward to some really cold weather.
 
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Theres some confusion in my opinion on the naming of the provinces in Jutland

First slesvig/sønderjylland. on the map those are two different provinces, it looks like you have chosen slesvig the city including area and the rest. However this is slightly confusion because Sønderjylland and Slesvig the Duchy is essentially the same geografical area.

A solution could be to split it at the current border. so it becomes Southern and Northern Slesvig and just call them Sønderjylland (Norhten slesvig) and Slesvig (Souther Slesvig)

Another slight adjustment i would make is that Nørrejylland shouldnt be a province. anything between limfjord and kongeå is essentially Nørrejylland. The province you have called Nørrejylland is essentially Himmerland but extended further south and including Salling.

1024px-Hertugd%C3%B8mmerne.png
1024px-S%C3%B8nderjylland_i_middelalderen.png


The part of the province "nørrejylland" which is Himmerland
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Alternatively you could change the shapes of the provinces to something further along the dioceses it seems both zealand, odense(except als), nørrejylland(viborg), vendjyssel all follow dioceses however west/east juland, and southern jutland(including slesvig) doesnt.
DanskeStifterMiddelalderen.png
 
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@Johan Sorry for asking about this in the scandinavian map talk..

In eu4 one of my favorite things to role play is randomize a new world, a what if sort of scenario. However, without any mods adding larger tiles it is almost always guaranteed that the new wold only consist of a fraction of the provinces seen in the americas. I would love for there to be a scenario where a random new wold would actually see a larger body of landmass instead of the vast pacific ocean.

When the only random option is a significantly smaller landmass then the americas there is no incentive to press the "random new world" button
 
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For the Moster Location i would maybe change fish to marble. Marble production had been going on since the 11th century and it was used primarily in limestone production. In the 1700s the marble itself was excevated to be used in the cities of Denmark Norway.

Source: geoparksunnhordland.no/geologien/
 
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Could I have the population numbers for Northern Norway? I have made a spreadsheet based on population estimates recognized internally in the country and been in touch with some historians and would like to be able to compare the relative population of the parts of the country. I will try to post some other corrections to the maps as well.
 
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With regards to the Jutlandic part of the map, I think you should reconsider at least Bølling, Silkeborg and Grindsted.

Neither Silkeborg or Grindsted were prominent places before the loss of Slesvig-Holsten.

Silkeborg was practically a village with less than a 1000 people living there before the 1860s. The landscape of Central and Western Jutland was largely poor soil quality moorland, and it was mainly after the loss of a third of the country's territory after the 2nd Schleswig War, that led to interest in agricultural exploitation of the land(Hedeopdyrkningen)

Bølling was a small shire under Ringkøbing. Bølling to this day is a village. I would suggest moving Ringkøbing to where Bølling is on the map now, and move Holstebro to where Ringkøbing is on the map. Instead of Holstebro, I would add Skive, but change the border so the peninsula belongs to Skive Location instead of Viborg.

I'll suggest using the towns with market privileges as a guideline for the locations, and as such create Horsens and Vejle instead of Silkeborg and Grindsted respectively.



Danmarks_købstæder.png


The borders for them could follow the historical borders of Loversyssel and Jellingsyssel.

View attachment Administrative_division_of_denmark_in_medieval_times.jpg
Here's a map of all the Syssels in Jutland, where the above pictures are taken from.

With regards to the Kalø location, it's true that it was an important fortress right in this period, but is there a reason the fortress was chosen as the name, rather than Ebeltoft, which was the important town in the area?


For Sjælland and Fyn, I would suggest adding Nyborg, Slagelse and Vordingborg as locations too.
 

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Considering the fact that Novgorod and Sweden just signed an agreement for the division of Karelia and Finland, is it gonna be possible for Sweden to colonize Karelia and viceversa? Or is there some kind of prevention mechanism like a truce blocking them?
 
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Will Project Caesar have a graphical terrain map like the default one in EU4? Is this planned or a work in progress?

I'm curious about this, especially when looking at the uncolored wastelands because in EU4, the basic map would sometimes show through the political map, such as wastelands, which often didn't look very good. Personally, I don't use this map in EU4 and I won't miss it.
 
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