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Tinto Maps #12 - 26th of July 2024 - Germany

Hello, and welcome to another new Tinto Maps! I’m back to duty, after the review of Italy that we posted last Thursday, and Johan taking care of Scandinavia last Friday. Today we will be taking a look at Germany! This region comprises the modern territories of Czechia, Austria, Switzerland, and Liechtenstein. However, for most of the timeline in Project Caesar, it was better known as the Holy Roman Empire. This organization once was a feudal empire elevated from the Kingdom of the Germans, but by 1337 was mostly disaggregated into a multitude of temporal and ecclesiastical jurisdictions, with only a tenuous feudal relationship with their Emperor.

Let’s start diving deep into this nightmare, then…

Countries:
Countries.png

I’m showing here a bit more of what the region is, so you can have a clear depiction of how it looks compared to the neighboring regions we’ve previously shown (and so that the Reddit guy who is patchworking the world map has an easier day ). What I can say about this when the map speaks for itself… The lands of Germany are highly fractured among different principalities, making for an extremely complex political situation. The Emperor in 1337 was Louis IV von Wittelsbach of Upper Bavaria… Because, yes, Bavaria is also divided. He is married to Margaret of Avesnes, daughter of Count William of Hainaut, Holland, and Zeleand, while his son Louis is the Margrave of Brandenburg. But probably the strongest power of the period is the Kingdom of Bohemia, whose king John also Duke Luxembourg and rules over both lands in a personal union, while also being overlord of the Margraviate of Moravia, ruler by his son Charles, and the Silesian principalities. The third contender probably is the Duchy of Austria, ruled by Albert II von Habsburg. He also rules over some lands in the formed Duchies of Swabia and Carinthia. There are also plenty of medium and small countries all over the region, with very different forms of government, which will probably make this HRE a very replayable experience…

Dynasties:
Dynasties.png

The dynastical map of the HRE gives a nice picture of the situation explained in the previous one. The von Wittelsbach, de Luxembourg (John of Bohemia is considered of French culture, therefore it uses the French toponymic article ‘de’; if he would change to the German culture, then it would be the ‘von Luxembourg’ dynasty), and von Habsburg cover much of the map; you may note that the Wittelsbach rule over five different countries (Upper Bavaria, Lower Bavaria, the Palatinate of the Rhine, and Brandenburg); while the House of Luxembourg also control the Archbishopric of Trier through Balduin, uncle of King John. Other important dynasties, although in a secondary position, are the Welfen, von Mecklenburg, and Gryf, present in multiple countries to the north; the Askanier, who happen to control half of Upper Saxony, while the rest is in the hands of the von Wettin; and the von Görz, who rule over the Duchy of Tirol and the County of Gorizia.

HRE:
HRE.png

We obviously have to repost the HRE IO map again here. The purple stripes mark the imperial territory, while the different types of members use different colors. We currently have these divisions in the IO: the Emperor (1, dark blue), Prince-Electors (4, light blue), Archbishop-Electors (3, medium blue), Free Imperial Cities (23, light green), Imperial Peasant Republics (2, orange), Imperial Prelates (44, white), and Regular Members (280, dark green). So, yeah, that make for a total of 357 countries that are part of the HRE. And before you ask: No, we won’t talk about its mechanics today, that will happen in future Tinto Talks.

Locations:
Locations.png

Locations 2.png

Locations 3.png

Locations 4.png

Locations 5.png
Germany has the highest density of locations in the world, as we wanted to portray the historical fragmentation of the HRE at the most detailed level of any Paradox GSG. There are a couple of things that we are aware of and we want to rework: the location connections (as in some places they are not obvious at all, and we want to make warfare in the HRE not impossible); and the transition between the German locations and those at their east, making it smoother (something that we will be doing in the review of Poland, Hungary and this region [e.g. for Bohemia]). A final comment: if you click on the spoiler button, you may be able to see 4 more detailed maps of the region.

Provinces:
Provinces.png

Map of provinces. As usual, suggestions are welcomed.

Areas:
Areas.png

Areas. We are currently not happy with the area borders (or at least, one of our German content designers isn't, and let me note it while preparing the DD... ;) ), as they reflect more modern areas so we will be looking into an alternative setup for them with your feedback. They also currently use their German names, which will change to English ones to be in line with other areas, as usual.

Terrain:
Climate.png

Topography.png

Vegetation.png

Terrain mapmodes. The region is quite forested, in comparison to other parts of Europe.

Culture:
Cultures.png

Let’s open the Pandora box and take a look at the cultures! The German cultures have come through a couple of reworks, until we’ve found a spot in which we’re kind of happy (or, at least, our German content designers do not complain!). The German cultures are very linguistically related, as we thought that it would be the best starting point for 1337. Please let us know about your thoughts on them.

Religion:
Religion.png

Boring religion map this week, as the region is overwhelmingly Catholic. There are Ashkenazi Jews in a bunch of places (a quick account: they’re present in 204 locations all over Central and Eastern Europe), and you may also see the Waldesians we added in the review of Italy last week.

Raw Materials:
Raw materials.png

Raw materials! Plenty of!

Markets:
Markets.png

The main market centers of the region are Cologne, Lúbeck, and Prague. We have reviewed them a couple of times, and this is the configuration that makes for a good setup historical and gameplay-wise. And you may also see Bruges, which has been reinstated as the main market of the Low Countries, after some tweaks.

Country and Location Population:
Population.png

Population 2.png

Population 3.png

Populations 4.png
The population of the HRE is… Fragmented. In that regard, Bohemia starts in a very strong position, with a strong competitor to its south (Austria) and north (Brandenburg).

And that’s it for today! I hope that we didn’t drive you into madness with this map… Next week we will take to a very different region, the Maghreb! See you then!
 
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So to expand on my previous suggestion to rename Fürth to Cadolzburg, I also looked into the placement of locations in the region since it felt like something was off.
Here are the locations with their actual cities drawn on top (+Cadolzburg since I suggested it):
citylocations.png

As you can see, the Nürnberg location doesn't actually own the city of Nürnberg. As much as I enjoy Nürnberg being part of Fürth, it's not really historically accurate.
The Erlangen location also extends far to the east of the city, while the Forchheim location, which is slightly east of Erlangen, lies mostly to the west of the Erlangen location.
I'm assuming that the Erlangen location was drawn that way because it pretty much the furthest west city of New Bohemia, but that project didn't really last that long and it became part of the Hohenzollern territory, without all this land to the east attached.

These are the Hohenzollern lands in the mid 16th century:
Markgraftuemer_1550.jpg

This was New Bohemia:
142


My suggestion for the locations here looks like this:
locationsmiddlefranconia.png

-Rename Fürth to Cadolzburg
-Split Sulzbach off of Eschenbach, because Eschenbach has a really weird shape and Nürnberg did not extend that far to the east.
 
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View attachment 1168073
Well that's not very nice...
I red it as the german definitve article in femininum.
No Thuringian culture?! We are being subsumized under saxon again. Unacceptable.
;)
Don't comlain, I have spent 11 years of my life trying to convince them Westphalian is NOT a thing,

It's so funny to me that Parma has more people than Vienna...
I think that may be accurate. Remember at this point Vienna is not the long time capital of an empire

Despite feedback for France this:

Creux-du-Van_vertical.jpg


is still a flatlands, so good luck on getting accurate Karkonosze.

While at the same time, the Chilterns are hills.

View attachment 1168174
Their problem is they seem to base topography off how many meters above sea level something is, which is the wrong way to view it. How an locaiton is compared to what's around it is what should matter.
The Topograpy in Bavaria is a mess...
Its way too flat for me as a Bavarian to not complain!
There need to be more Hills (for forts of course ;) )
And also some more Mountains in Baden and on the Chech border.
I also dont want to attach millions of reference Pictures showing that its definately not Flat where i live so maybe look up some pictures of franconia and upper bavaria and you´ll see what i mean.

Another Thing depending Culture...
I dont know how it was back then, but Austrian should be different to Bavarian and naming Tyrolian South Bavarian seems like an Insult.
At least i know that if you put a Man from Tyrol and an Upper Bavarian Person in the Same Room they dont understand Shit because the Accents are so extremely different.
I think if it wont get changed it would at least be nice that Austrian detatches from Bavarian after 100-200 Years.

Anyway Great Map
View attachment 1168192View attachment 1168194
All in all the topgraphy map is a bt to much big blobs. They don't really make good use out of the fact that they have a metric ton of locaitons to work with. There's way to much flatlands in the game right now.

always has been, Austria was settled by Bavarians, Austrian dialects are part of the bavarian dialect group.
Then again Brandenburg was settles by saxons, yet there is a separate brandenburg culture,
Hello and thank you for the opportunity to give some feedback,

I noticed some inaccuracies in the terrain mapmode in the area I live in.

1. The locations Remscheid and Altena schoud be hills instead of flatland
View attachment 1168250




2. Maastricht, Heinsberg, Rourmond, Bergheim (missleading name ;)) and arguably Düren are not on/in hilly terrain, those locations should be flatland. All of those cities/towns are on rivers in very flat terrain all around.
View attachment 1168244

I have been to those places and can provide picures/fotos if that would help, but here is also a topographic map (in German) as backup, that I can recommend


Basically from this
View attachment 1168259
to this:
View attachment 1168260

Best Wishes!
Nice with some more granularity.
Sorry I needed to remove my links because i dont post in this Forum and my post got flaged as spam.

Nice Maps!
I normally dont reply to the Tinto Maps because its not my Area of expertise. But since I live in Hamelin I think I can at least contribute to one Location on the Map.
In my Opinion the Topography of the Location of Hameln should not be Flatland but Hills (probably the Locations to the south aswell).
As you can see in this Map
View attachment 1168272
(sorry its in German) there are Hills around Hamelin that are up to 500m tall.
Every location to the north of the Weser Uplands (there is a Wikipedia article for the Weser Uplands but i cant post links:rolleyes:) should (as shown in the Topography Map) be Flatlands (since the Land was flattened when the last Glaciers receded).
Here is a nice Foto of Hamelin:
View attachment 1168226
as you can see in the Picture Hamelin is basically surrounded by Hills. Only the Areas that are next to the Weser are flat.
Here are more Pictures of my beautiful City:

View attachment 1168251
View attachment 1168253

If 400-500m tall Hills are not considered Hills in PC I think there should be a new classification for the Topogaraphy rolling and rugged Hills like its described in this Post (i would have liked to post the link to the post but i cant but its called "revising flatlands and hills a simple solution and a better methodology").

I sadly could not find a source for the Population of Hamelin an its surrounding villages. But as described here (unfortunately no link here either) the City had around 2000 Citizens in 1344 (in some other History Books about the City the founding Population in 1277 was 2000-2500 People. So the Number in 1344 is probably an underestimation) with around 5% of the population being Jewish. So the Population of 68365 in game is probably to high even if you include the surrounding villages, but maybe there is someone with more information in this Forum since i only looked at history books about Hamelin.

Thank you for reading my Post and sorry for my bad English.
The reason is they use meters above sealevel to inform topography which is why locaitons with hills close to the coast ends up being flatlands.
I disagree with "von Welf". Welf is a personal name, "von" is only used with placenames. If "Welfen" is too German, please call them "von Braunschweig" instead.
As someone who's got Welf on my grandmother's side this is seconded,
No I agree, I just wanted to point out it is not complete fantasy
Many of the specific ones are. There may have been Gaus in these locations but these specific -gau names seem to be made up.
 
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Hello, and welcome to another new Tinto Maps! I’m back to duty, after the review of Italy that we posted last Thursday, and Johan taking care of Scandinavia last Friday. Today we will be taking a look at Germany! This region comprises the modern territories of Czechia, Austria, Switzerland, and Liechtenstein. However, for most of the timeline in Project Caesar, it was better known as the Holy Roman Empire. This organization once was a feudal empire elevated from the Kingdom of the Germans, but by 1337 was mostly disaggregated into a multitude of temporal and ecclesiastical jurisdictions, with only a tenuous feudal relationship with their Emperor.

Let’s start diving deep into this nightmare, then…

Countries:
View attachment 1167612
I’m showing here a bit more of what the region is, so you can have a clear depiction of how it looks compared to the neighboring regions we’ve previously shown (and so that the Reddit guy who is patchworking the world map has an easier day ). What I can say about this when the map speaks for itself… The lands of Germany are highly fractured among different principalities, making for an extremely complex political situation. The Emperor in 1337 was Louis IV von Wittelsbach of Upper Bavaria… Because, yes, Bavaria is also divided. He is married to Margaret of Avesnes, daughter of Count William of Hainaut, Holland, and Zelland, while his son Louis is the Margrave of Brandenburg. But probably the strongest power of the period is the Kingdom of Bohemia, whose king John also Duke Luxembourg and rules over both lands in a personal union, while also being overlord of the Margraviate of Moravia, ruler by his son Charles, and the Silesian principalities. The third contender probably is the Duchy of Austria, ruled by Albert II von Habsburg. He also rules over some lands in the formed Duchies of Swabia and Carinthia. There are also plenty of medium and small countries all over the region, with very different forms of government, which will probably make this HRE a very replayable experience…

Dynasties:
View attachment 1167613
The dynastical map of the HRE gives a nice picture of the situation explained in the previous one. The von Wittelsbach, de Luxembourg (John of Bohemia is considered of French culture, therefore it uses the French toponymic article ‘de’; if he would change to the German culture, then it would be the ‘von Luxembourg’ dynasty), and von Habsburg cover much of the map; you may note that the Wittelsbach rule over five different countries (Upper Bavaria, Lower Bavaria, the Palatinate of the Rhine, and Brandenburg); while the House of Luxembourg also control the Archbishopric of Trier through Balduin, uncle of King John. Other important dynasties, although in a secondary position, are the Welfen, von Mecklenburg, and Gryf, present in multiple countries to the north; the Askanier, who happen to control half of Upper Saxony, while the rest is in the hands of the von Wettin; and the von Görz, who rule over the Duchy of Tirol and the County of Gorizia.

HRE:
View attachment 1167615
We obviously have to repost the HRE IO map again here. The purple stripes mark the imperial territory, while the different types of members use different colors. We currently have these divisions in the IO: the Emperor (1, dark blue), Prince-Electors (4, light blue), Archbishop-Electors (3, medium blue), Free Imperial Cities (23, light green), Imperial Peasant Republics (2, orange), Imperial Prelates (44, white), and Regular Members (280, dark green). So, yeah, that make for a total of 357 countries that are part of the HRE. And before you ask: No, we won’t talk about its mechanics today, that will happen in future Tinto Talks.

Locations:
View attachment 1167616
Germany has the highest density of locations in the world, as we wanted to portray the historical fragmentation of the HRE at the most detailed level of any Paradox GSG. There are a couple of things that we are aware of and we want to rework: the location connections (as in some places they are not obvious at all, and we want to make warfare in the HRE not impossible); and the transition between the German locations and those at their east, making it smoother (something that we will be doing in the review of Poland, Hungary and this region [e.g. for Bohemia]). A final comment: if you click on the spoiler button, you may be able to see 4 more detailed maps of the region.

Provinces:
View attachment 1167621
Map of provinces. As usual, suggestions are welcomed.

Areas:
View attachment 1167622
Areas. We are currently not happy with the area borders (or at least, one of our German content designers isn't, and let me note it while preparing the DD... ;) ), as they reflect more modern areas so we will be looking into an alternative setup for them with your feedback. They also currently use their German names, which will change to English ones to be in line with other areas, as usual.

Terrain:
View attachment 1167623
View attachment 1167624
View attachment 1167625
Terrain mapmodes. The region is quite forested, in comparison to other parts of Europe.

Culture:
View attachment 1167626
Let’s open the Pandora box and take a look at the cultures! The German cultures have come through a couple of reworks, until we’ve found a spot in which we’re kind of happy (or, at least, our German content designers do not complain!). The German cultures are very linguistically related, as we thought that it would be the best starting point for 1337. Please let us know about your thoughts on them.

Religion:
View attachment 1167629
Boring religion map this week, as the region is overwhelmingly Catholic. There are Ashkenazi Jews in a bunch of places (a quick account: they’re present in 204 locations all over Central and Eastern Europe), and you may also see the Waldesians we added in the review of Italy last week.

Raw Materials:
View attachment 1167630
Raw materials! Plenty of!

Markets:
View attachment 1167632
The main market centers of the region are Cologne, Lúbeck, and Prague. We have reviewed them a couple of times, and this is the configuration that makes for a good setup historical and gameplay-wise. And you may also see Bruges, which has been reinstated as the main market of the Low Countries, after some tweaks.

Country and Location Population:
View attachment 1167633
The population of the HRE is… Fragmented. In that regard, Bohemia starts in a very strong position, with a strong competitor to its south (Austria) and north (Brandenburg).

And that’s it for today! I hope that we didn’t drive you into madness with this map… Next week we will take to a very different region, the Maghreb! See you then!
Yo

So I've wanted to ask, since you've divided German into so many cultures, if you've ever considered adding Höchstalemannisch (Highest Alemannic) to the game?


There are a few big difference between Highest Alemannic and High Alemannic (which you've already added) and considering the differences between the other German cultures I think it should definitely get a consideration to make the final cut.

Edit: There would've also been some Highest Alemannic people in the Sarganserland since a good amount of them migrated there in the 13th century.
Source for the above is "Walser Volkstum" by Paul Zinsli


Loving the EU5 dev diaries, keep it up and have a good one.
 
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We think that this is the best way to portray this kind of semi-autonomous community (as let's say, one tag per location wouldn't really represent the situation, either).
Do you consider it too centralized for a bunch of smaller tags in an International Organization to be reasonable? Why? Or would that cause glitchy interactions with the HRE IO?
 
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I am pretty sure that the raw resource for Wetzlar should be iron instead of wine. I (maybe obviously) come from the town and from memory, the iron/metal production was one of the major economic factors throughout the town's history. One important part of the old town is famously called "Eisenmarkt" (iron market). While there are quite a few refrences to wine production around Wetzlar and the Lahntal, I have not found anything significant that would suggest that it should be the raw good produced there.
The wikipedia articles on both Wetzlar and the History of Wetzlar (Geschichte der Stadt Wetzlar) name the iron production in the late middle ages extensively while wine is not mentioned once.
Furthermore, there is an article by a historian from Marburg that expands on this a bit:

The passage itself refers to an article "Studien zur wirtschaftlichen Entwicklung Wetzlars im Spätmittelalter" (can't link to it) which sadly isn't available online (only in the town library).
It names wool weaving and metal processing as the major industries, with wool weaving taking principal importance in outside trade. I have found no refrences highlighting a significant production of raw wool originating within the town itself, but the opposite is true for iron production, so it seems very likely that the success of the metall industries was tightly connected to the local sourcing of iron especially.
Sturdy Grain produced in all other agricultural areas:
  • Kölner Bucht/Jülicher Börde: Mönchengladbach, Roermond, Geldern, Bonn, Heinsberg
  • Osnabrücker Land: Paderborn, Bersenbrück, Vechta
  • Dungau: Vilsbiburg, Landshut, Mallersdorf, Straubing, Regensburg, Rottenburg an der Laaber, Freising, Erding, Mühldorf
  • Erfurter Becken: Apolda, Naumburg, Sondershausen, Weißenfels
  • Magdeburger Börde: Bernburg, Calbe, Magdeburg
  • Leipziger Becken: Altenburg, Glauchau, Chemnitz, Rochlitz, Döbeln, Delitzsch, Bitterfeld, Torgau
  • Pomerania: Greifenhagen, Pyritz, Saatzig, Regenwalde, Schievelbein
  • Other sturdy grain producing locations: Husum, Oldenburg, Dinkelsbühl, Ansbach, Rothenburg, Uffenheim, Neustadt an der Aisch, Schwabach, Fritzlar, Ziegenhain, Alsfeld, Marburg, Frankenberg, Bydenkapf, Wetzlar, Hoyerswerda, Liebenwerda, Mergentheim, Crailsheim, Pfaffenhofen, Friedberg, Indersdorf

Mef's suggestion for sturdy grain does have merit considering that the town experienced a sharp downturn after going bankrupt in 1370. But that is some 30 years after the start date.
I think the two options here are to ignore those 30 years and do sturdy grain as Mef suggests, or to give it an event that turns it from iron to sturdy grain (possibly with a condition, especially when playing as the town itself). The latter might not be worth the effort though.
 
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Could you please spare us by adding Vaduz as a location by splitting it off from Feldkirch, so that we may establish Liechtenstein as a glorious tax haven.


I'm going to second this, since the map doesn't seem to reflect the 1337 situation correctly in the Liechtenstein/Vorarlberg region, and with a bit of adjustment could make it possible for players to play a proto-Liechtenstein. Firstly, it doesn't seem that the Counts of Bregenz, Feldkirch, and Werdenberg are depicted of being from the same dynasty (they are different colors on the dynasty map), when they were all from the same Monfort dynasty. Also, the County of Feldkirch was very tiny, only controling like the top 1/4 of the location on the map. The County of Werdenberg (which is the state for Bludenz location) actually ruled the whole southern swathe of the Feldkirch location, from which the County of Vaduz would be split off of near the game's start.

Karte_Werdenberger.png


(This map, although dated for the 14th/15th century, has to be around the game start, as Vaduz isn't split from Werdenberg and Feldkirch isn't part of Austria)

The green and gold are Werdenberg, purple are the core Monfort lands of Bregenz and Feldkirch. While Feldkirch is indeed a bit bigger than Vaduz, given that the later is the core from which the current nation of Liechtenstein later formed from, it's far more historically important, especially as Feldkirch ceased to be its own state in 1375.

Honestly, I'd say have Bregenz location expand a bit into the northern part of the current Feldkirch location and Bludenz location expand a bit westward into Feldkirch location as well. Rename the remainder Vaduz (you could probably make it larger than the current nation of Liechtenstein for clarity purposes, I doubt anyone would mind) and either make it part of Werdenberg, or make it its own county in a personal union with Werdenberg (which the Wikipedia article on the County of Werdenberg implies by having it show up in 1322; the rulers chart in that article shows the first independent Count of Vaduz as starting his rule in 1453, while the Wikipedia article on the County of Vaduz states the county was formed in 1342, so the whole situation is unclear and making it a personal union might be best).

Splitting Feldkirch into two locations to make a new Vaduz location could work as well. But the point is, the possibility of playing a proto-Liechtenstein as the County of Vaduz will draw far more many players to this area of the map than a having just a lot of other comparable, but lesser-known, tiny states.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/County_of_Vaduz
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/County_of_Werdenberg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counts_of_Montfort_(Swabia)
 
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What holding Hohenzollerns start with (I couldn't spot them) and will there be event for them to rise and get Brandenburg and other pockets they took (Like ones in Rhein and East Frisia)

The Hohenzollerns are on the map as rulers of Ansbach, which they just inherited a few years before the game start. Their Swabian lands appear to be too small to be depicted.
 
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Mef's suggestion for sturdy grain does have merit considering that the town experienced a sharp downturn after going bankrupt in 1370. But that is some 30 years after the start date.
I think the two options here are to ignore those 30 years and do sturdy grain as Mef suggests, or to give it an event that turns it from iron to sturdy grain (possibly with a condition, especially when playing as the town itself). The latter might not be worth the effort though.
All I can say to that is that I haven't seen Wetzlar mentioned in the course of my research on ironworking or iron mining in the time period. It was obviously done as it's easy to find sources on it, but it didn't appear to have been that important compared to the Siegerland which apparently has ores that are easier to mine.
I have nothing against placing iron on Wetzlar, though, as it's certainly a region that is relatively rich in iron and has good potential.
 
Territory of Buzet should go under province of Istria and territory of Trieste under province of Gorizia.

Maybe rename province of Carniola into Krain, and area of Slovenia into Carniola?

Province of Carniola should be a March at the game start, drastically lowering Habsburg territory control and empowering local Nobility estate.
__________________________________________________________________

From academic study of population numbers over the course of the history in what is now present day Slovenia:

''SUMMARY
A RETROGRADE CONSTRUCTION OF POPULATION TRENDS IN SLOVENIA BEFORE
THE 18 TH CENTURY
The results of the study are illustrated by the graph on page 352. The median value of the
retrogradely constructed development series of the population in the territory covering 20,273
square kilometres are as follows: year 600/135.000 inhabitants; 700/135.000–149.000; 800/
149.000; 900/149.000–194.000; 1000/194.000; 1100/249.000; 1200/331.000; 1300/
518.000; 1400/351.000; 1500/514.000; 1600/662.000; 1700/727.000 inhabitants.
The absence of numerical information sources makes it impossible to corroborate these
results. Therefore, a number of refuting tests were carried out; these cannot confirm the
retrograde construction, but they can refute it, if they show either individually are
simultaneously, that the constructed image is not consistent, or that it does not make sense.
These tests were based respectively on a comparison with population d ensity in Europe, on
possible growth rates, the logical structure and relations between the samples, and on known
historical events and conditions. The tests did not refute the retrograde construction.
Together with other sources, the retrograde construction was used for the following rough
estimates. In the entire period 13 to 15 million people were born and half of them died in
childhood. In a given period more men lived then women, because the latter died at a
younger age. The total number of adult women who participated in the creation of goods,
social and spiritual historical conditions was around 3 to 4 million.''

Link to the whole study:

_______________________________________________________

Study on area size and population numbers in European cities. In Appendix 2, you will find tables covering population numbers for all known cities and towns located in Germany, France, Italy and England for year 1300!

Cesaretti R, Lobo J, Bettencourt LM, Ortman SG, Smith ME. Population-Area Relationship for Medieval European Cities. PLoS One. 2016 Oct 5;11(10):e0162678. doi: 10.1371/journal.pone.0162678. PMID: 27706192; PMCID: PMC5051806.

________________________________________________________

And some interesting fun trivia. A tabel of debts Habsburgs owned to Cillies during 1356-1383.

Debtor - Year - Value (in Guilders) - Pledge of Property/Income - Affair
1722053399360.png


Link where I took that table from:
 
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Its good to see that olives north of the alps and outside their climate zone were changed to wine and fruit and some other things like lumber. Im enjoying see all the goods locations and this is alot to go through, will there be further improvements of certain goods that were historically able to be extracted from areas like with the gold in Echigo japan in eu4 or the finding of iron and copper in Norway through mission style events or time based events?
 
I have to say, some of the population numbers in locations look very strange to me. I don't have any sources of my own, but I do have to wonder if there are actually sources for some of the extreme examples or if the numbers are just plain wrong.
  • Feldkirch, a location that is half mountains, has 131k inhabitants. Were there really so many people packed into an Alpine valley? Neighboring Bludenz, even smaller, has 50k?
  • A similar case is Steinach, which is basically just the Brenner pass, how does it have more inhabitants than Innsbruck to the north?
  • Mittersill is another Alpine valley location with 66k population, really? Twice the population of Innsbruck and almost four times that of Salzburg?
  • Compared to these Alpine locations, Upper and Lower Austria along the Danube has quite a low population. I would expect more people to live in places like Linz or Krems than along mountain passes, but again, it's not like I have any source from the time period to come up with my own numbers. Were they not properly settled yet compared to the Alps?
  • Looking through Bavaria, the locations with the most population are... Regen, Cham and Tirschenreuth? In the mountainous forests? I'm not saying they had a low population, but I would have expected at least the same amount of people to live near major cities like Nürnberg, Augsburg or Regensburg. The city of Nürnberg is supposed to have had a population of 14k in 1300, but its location, which includes much more land than just the city, only has 15k people.
  • Köln is a similar case, it had a population of 44k in 1300, but the location, which is much bigger than just the city, only has 40k.
  • The population numbers of Essen, Recklinghausen and Dortmund really stand out. Are you sure about this distribution? The Ruhrgebiet didn't get its insane population density until the 19th century. Sure, this area didn't have a low population, but I would have expected a more even distribution. The numbers in all of Westphalia look pretty insane tbh, the Münsterland and Ostwestfalen have so much population! Are you sure they had this much density in 1337?
  • It looks like Northern Germany has a much bigger population than Southern Germany. It has plenty of locations above 100k, while Southern Germany has none outside the Palatinate, unless you count Vienna. Even locations in the Mecklenburgische Seenplatte have a higher population that almost any location in the South, that's pretty crazy. I guess it did lose a large percentage to the Black Death but I wonder if the game can portray that accurately (it's not like we even have accurate numbers for that to begin with...).
 
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LocationsR.png


A map of Russia's claims to German lands obtained by marriage with the heiresses of these lands. As well as territories that were subject to the Russian Empire. (Claims for the reason of "Defender of the Slavs" and "Heir of Rome" are not listed here).

The circled provinces are the direct control of the subjects at some point in time. Please note that some provinces have regional names, Oldenburg is divided into 3 unrelated territories, and there is no city for Delmenhorst in the game yet!

The provinces highlighted with a pink dotted line are the claims of Empresses and princesses-co-rulers who were invited from Germany. Prussia is highlighted separately in dark green (Not to be confused with black Prussia, which was directly subject to Russia). Please note that there is no city for Pyrmont in the game yet!

Dark purple hatching shows the territories in which the princesses achieved the construction of the Russian Orthodox Church and its transfer to the direct control of the Russian Empire, however, they are all very small and should not be present on the map, in addition, they historically appear only at the very end of the time frame of the game.

It is worth adding about Denmark-Norway. In Russia, the Romanovs came to power from the Holstein-Gottorp branch of the dynasty, which considered itself the heir of Denmark and Norway, so the Russian emperors had a reasonable claim to own these lands.
 
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Some things about the Area I grew up in - the Weserbergland and the surrounding area.
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First the locations borders seem to be mostly OK, but the city of Hannover isn't remotely in it's location (green) you can just extend this one a bit.
Second the Harz montains (yellow) are barely recognizable, mostly because Goslar extends too far into the flatland in the north. Goslar, Braunlage and Blankenburg drew their economic power from the Harz. All three locations should be sources of silver or copper. If this makes them too desirable keep in mind, that the Harz was nearly depopulated during the Black Death.

Now on to the red area. The Weserbergland (lit. land of the weser mountians) name implies at least hills, but there are quite large flat areas between the hills giving the area it's names so flatland should be OK. It should however be combined into a province - but I'll make a seperate post about the provinces in northern Germany - the Gau naming pattern needs to go.
The Weserbergland would become a fairly prosperous area in the time of the early game by selling goods over the Weser river and Bremen. Most notably lumber and stone, but later also grain.
Lumber in Holzminden is fine,but change the raw goods from Hameln and Minden to a well selling grain (Wheat maybe?)
The area around Bückeburg was the source of a type of stone that was knwon as "Bremen stone" (as it was exported via Bremen) that was apparently excelent to work with for monuments. In game that should be represented as marble.

Now my home town of Hameln is likely the most important crossing of the Weser river (which I don't think I can see on your maps) It had finished a 9 meter wall in the 13th century and would until the 18th century become the single most powerful fortress of the electorate of Hanover. I don't know if you would represent that with a building or if it grows naturally from being a Weser crossing or if there would need to be raw materials changed.
You also depict is as part of the Bshopric of Minden, but it would have been lost to Everstein (a country too small for the game) in 1268 but had been granted city rights from duke Albrecht II. of Braunschweig in 1277. In 1337 it propably belonged to Albrechts son Otto of Brunswick. Make it a part of Brunswick.

Speaking of Brunswick, to the south of Braunschwieg you have Wolfenbüttel (which is fine) but the name of todays biggest town in the location (Salzgitter) implies a better raw material for it: Salt. Salt production in Salzgitter began in the early 14th century so it should fit.


That's it for now. As I've said we need to talk about province names but I'll make a post about it later.
My apologies for providing all sources in German, but as you have a German Team member and Google is quite good at translating German i figured I'll leave you with the sources as are.
 
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Oh boy my home region.

Elsfleth should definitely be a marsh. It covers the entire landscape "Wesermarsch", and another marshy area south of the Jadebusen. Especially in 1337 this was an extremely wet area.

Why does Bremen have a dynasty? Should be a merchant republic. Or do burghers have dynasty names too? The bishoperic was turned into a free city in 1303, and joined the Hansa just 20 years after the startdate.

And then the coastline isn't correct. Multiple large floods reshaped the coastline over the centuries. Exact maps for 1337 are hard to find though, so I think modern coastlines is maybe fine. (The Jadebusen should be much smaller in 1337 though, it got that big when dike broke in Brake and connected the Jade and Weser making Butjadingen (the northern part of Elsfleth) an island.

The area should also be economically extremely weak as it hadn't recovered from the Stedinger Crusade in 1234 where the bishop of Bremen basically wiped out the local population (or at least reduced then enough that they failed to get water management done and turned most fields back into brakish swamps)