Tinto Maps #12 - 26th of July 2024 - Germany

[Lord_Telchar]

Regarding the Areas of Switzerland and Tyrol:
Including Vorarlberg in the Area of Tyrol, as well as calling the areas Western and Eastern Switzerland seems anachronistic.
- Vorarlberg being part of Tyrol would be centuries in the future, and makes no sense either culturally, or with the administrative divisions of the time - the region would be counted as part of the duchy of Swabia or Raetia Curiensis (in german Churrätien)
- What we now call Switzerland was only starting to form during this time period, and much of the ingame area of Eastern Switzerland would only start to be part of it in the next 200 years.

I propose the following changes:
- Change Western Switzerland to just "Switzerland" and have it include all (or most) of the core cantons already in alliance in 1337, that would mean gaining Schwyz and Zürichgau, while loosing the Oberwallis to Romandy
- Change Eastern Switzerland to Raetia Curiensis, or just Raetia, and have it include the province of Vorarlberg, consolidating the Romansch culture in one Area
Edit: The Romansch word "Currezia" might be the best choice actually

 

[Lavilledieu]

I just noticed the splotch of Nassau territory near Strassburg. Back then, this wasn't Nassau territory.

The county of Saarwerden was in the hands of the Saarwerden dynasty up until 1397. So at the start of the game, Saarwerden should be its own tag.
After that, it fell in the hands of the House of Mörs. Only starting from 1527 fell Saarwerden under the House of Nassau.

The titles of on the wiki page already tell this story.

EDIT: I also took a look at Bitsch. I don't understand why it's portrayed as a part of Lorraine. It seemed to be part of "Zweibrücken-Bitsch". The English page for Bitsch learns us that "This had long given its name to the countship of Bitsch, which was originally in the possession of the dukes of Lorraine. In 1297 it passed by marriage to Eberhard I of Zweibrücken-Bitsch, whose line became extinct in 1569."

I'll be honest, I'm not the best at understanding dynastic houses, but it appears that Bitsch should be its own tag (or in the hands of Zweibrücken). In 1385, the main cities of the county of Zweibrücken got sold (in project caesar terms, the tag stopped existing) while Bitsch would persist for while.

 

[Swiper]

Slovenian Mountain Passes and Provinces
I decided to make a short addendum to my previous post.

Here is the map with the added new provinces and a slightly reworked Celje-Maribor (now Maribor and Ptuj) border, based on the URN:NBN:SI:IMG-QCIFFSYT map.
1. Kranj is split from Ljubljana
2. Ptuj is split from Maribor
3. Koper is split from Trieste and a sliver of Rovinj
4. Slovenj Gradec is split from the northern part of Celje
5. I slightly extended the Gorizia province to connect it with Buzet (based on the above mentioned map)

The modern Slovenia-Austria border runs for the most part along the alpine ranges of the Karawanks and Kamnik-Savinja Alps. The peaks of those are, on average, 1991 ± 51 and 2337 ± 48 m tall, respectively. These peaks are connected by mountain ridges across which a sole alpinist can walk, but moving an army would be nothing short of Hannibalistic .

Historically there were few passes: Korensko Sedlo / Wurzen Pass (locations Bled and Villach), Prelaz Ljubelj / Loibl Pass (proposed locations Kranj and Klagenfurt), Jeserski Vrh / Seebergsattel (Kamnik and Völkermarkt) and Pavličevo sedlo / Paulitschsattel (Schönstein and Völkermarkt). While the latter two do not significantly impact province connections, they could at least inform the province - travel times (moving from Schönstein to Völkermarkt should take longer than moving from Windischgratz).
Due to the height of these Alpine mountain ranges, I think all of these impassable regions make sense and add another layer of depth and strategy to the Slovenia-Austria area. Directly moving an army from Kamnik (Stein) to Völkermarkt or Bled (Veldes) to Klagenfurt would be nearly impossible. Additionally, the time it takes to move from Kranj (Krainburg) to Klagenfurt or Völkermarkt, as well as Šoštanj (Schönstein) to Völkermarkt should take crossing through the passes into account.

The Slovenian Mountain Passes Map (based on the map by @Palando):

I also created a province proposal with the following historical provinces:
- Upper Carniola / Gorenjska / Oberkrain
- Lower Carniola / Dolenjska / Unterkrain
- Inner Carniola / Notranjska / Innerkrain
- Gorizia / Goriška / Görz
- Savinja March / Savinjska marka / Mark an der Sann

I also added Koper / Capo d'Istria to the map which was missing in the original map and should in my opinion be represented in the game, as I already argued in my previous post.

All of these represent historic provinces, and I think they elegantly fit into my proposed areas suggestion of Steiermark and Carniola / Kranjska / Krain and thus solve the Slovenia-Carniola-Styria dilemma.

Edit: Based on the feedback by @Inzano I revised my proposal and based it on the province map by @Palando as its higher granularity highlights the impact of the mountain passes.

 

[Pavía]

Made an account here just for this,
Also as I started writing this there are already 19 pages of comments so some of the things I put here may have already been said; and of course not an expert so I'll probably miss a lot of things with some areas.

DYNASTIES
'Welfen' to 'von Welf'
'von Mark' to 'von der Mark'
'von Baden' to 'von Zähringen'

SOME LOCATIONS
Saxony & Thuringia
Liebenwerda (while acceptable, Mühlberg could be an alternative given an actual battle was fought there in 1547)
Schweinitz (seems Annaburg was a more relevant settlement)
Ilmenau (looking at maps its closer to directly south of Arnstadt, might be better to replace with Suhl which historically had a gunsmithing industry)
Sonneberg (Saalfeld or Rudolstadt are more relevant as capitals of lordships though not at start date)

Rhineland-Brunswick
Schotten (seems Nidda was a more relevant settlement)
Korbach (Waldeck was a lordship around there)
Hofgeismar (Schöneberg was a lordship around here)
Buren (should have an umlaut on the u, Büren)
Hamm (seems Werl was a more relevant settlement to the Duchy of Berg)
Don't know enough about the Duchies of Brunswick/Cleves/Berg to sweep more on the location relevance there, but it's probably worth checking. In terms of how I've determined 'relevance' for the above name recommendations, it goes down to checking which of these towns' historical polities either had capitals on or named governing districts (i.e. kreis) after.

AREAS
As admitted by you guys, setup looks very modern so lots of changes needed.
For Saxony try to at least follow the borders of the Electorate of Saxony because all of that area in Brandenburg only ever became a part of Prussia in 1815.
For Lower Saxony, perhaps areas can be based off the Duchy of Brunswick–Lüneburg.
For the Northern part of the Rhine, probably some merger of the Duchies of Jülich, Cleves, and Berg along with another area for the polities around the Prince-Bishopric of Münster
For the Rhineland-Palatinate, very fragmented historically without any real major territory it was partitioned from, so perhaps just naming it the Upper Rhine (after the Imperial Circle is possible)
For Oberrhein, see Rheinish Franconia
For Pomerania, consider separating Mecklenburg

Should hopefully result in similarly-sized areas? Not fully sure what size you're going for here.

Dynasties (I'm leaving the locations and areas for the proper map review):
1. Just discussed it with one of our German content designers, we're renaming them to 'von Welf' (FYI too @ibvfteh , as you reported it first).
2. Just renamed it, and it also has its French variant 'de la Marck'.
3. We've also discussed this, and we think that 'von Baden' is more appropriate, as the main branch of the 'von Zähringen' died long ago.

 

[aki-chan desu]

Areas based on the unaltered locations. Don't take it too seriously.

1: Lorraine
2: Upper Rhine
3: Swabia
4: Bavaria
5: East Franconia
6: Rhine Franconia
7: Moselle Franconia
8: Wallonie
9: Brabant
10: Holland
10.5: Oversticht
11: Low Franconia
12: Ripuaria
13: West Franconia
14: Thuringia
15: Upper Saxony
16: Lusatia (maybe combine with Silesia)
17: Brandenburg
18: Eastphalia
19: Angria
20: Westphalia
21: Frisia
22: Billunger March
23: Pomerania

 

[aki-chan desu]

Dynasties (I'm leaving the locations and areas for the proper map review):
1. Just discussed it with one of our German content designers, we're renaming them to 'von Welf' (FYI too @ibvfteh , as you reported it first).
2. Just renamed it, and it also has its French variant 'de la Marck'.
3. We've also discussed this, and we think that 'von Baden' is more appropriate, as the main branch of the 'von Zähringen' died long ago.

Please, I beg you, do not use "von Welf". It makes no sense. They called themselves "von Braunschweig" throughout the timeframe. Welf is a personal name, they are referred to as Welfen because Welf was a common name in the family during the early middle ages. You cannot use "von" with a name. "von Welf" would mean that they come from a place called Welf, which doesn't exist.

 

[Pavía]

pardon if this has alredy been asked, but what is that "lusatia" in the map, I'm not aware of any principality with that name, so what does it represent?

The Margraviate of Lusatia. But I think that in 1337 it should be incorporated into Brandenburg, and just be kept as a revolter tag, though; I'll double-check with the team.

 

[Pavía]

Firstly love the map, but Pavia is ‘Zelland’ the way the cool kids reference Zeeland at Paradox Interactive or did you make a tipo?

As one of the advocates for the addition of Bentheim, I'm overjoyed by its inclusion. However, I disagree with the choice of marble as it’s resource. In a previous post, I argued that Bentheim should feature stone as its resource, specifically Bentheimer sandstone, also known as Bentheimer gold. This regional specialty was used in numerous buildings, such as the Martinitoren in Groningen, Bentheim castle and the palace of Amsterdam. Alternatively, sand could be considered since Bentheimer sandstone is essentially sand-based. While the current resource in PC is marble, the legacy of Bentheimer gold in regional architecture far outweighs that of marble; also I could not find any reference to bentheim marble.

Hi! Where do you see Zelland? Because we don't have any instance of that word in the game files...

 

[Pavía]

On that note:

• On the maps the country is called Kleve, the location is called Cleve. Both should have the same first letter.

This is WAD, the location being in German 'Kleve', as its ruling dynasty, with the country being named 'Cleves', as we use the English standard for country names.

 

[Pavía]

Could we get a rename of Gelre to Guelders? Since Guelders is the English name for it and Gelre is Dutch.

As per consistency with my previous answer, just renamed Gelre to Guelders.

 

[ArVass]

Jindřich ze Skalice easter egg character when?

 

[qwertzlbry]

I don't know what your threshold size is when it comes to displaying lakes on the map. But in the Swiss area you could add some more fairly large lakes like Lake Lucerne and Lake Zurich, which would probably add to the strategic gameplay in the region. Of lesser strategic importance, you could also add Lake Thun and Lake Brienz in the Bern region.

 

[Pavía]

Raw Materials

Here's my map for suggested raw materials in the borders of modern Germany (mostly, I added some more of Pomerania because it was cut off in the Poland thread):
View attachment 1168375
While I focused on modern Germany, I'm also going to list a handful of rare resources in Austria and Czechia.
I didn’t bother with citing all the sources in this section, as a lot of it comes from random German websites talking about the history of their town, but these should be googled easily, at least in German.

Let’s start with metals. There is a great source on metal production in the period, the first article in this collection of papers (in German, it has an English summary in there too).
Nuremberg was the most important metalworking city in Germany. They had a mechanical method for copper wire drawing that they kept a closely guarded secret, and also produced basically all metalware you can think of, especially made of brass.
The source lists all the places that Nuremberg got its raw materials from and specifically talks about important German mining towns of the period. Much of the metal-related stuff below comes from this document.

I also want to mention something that will come up: silver, copper and lead often show up together in ores. So for example, North Tyrol produced silver and copper, while South Tyrol produced silver and lead. This can be a problem for assigning a good to a location - which one do you choose? Obviously, silver was the more valuable metal, since it was used for currency - silver was worth 300-350 times as much as copper in the 15th century. But in order to represent both metals that were produced in really important mines, I would suggest using a neighboring location that doesn’t have a special resource in order to have both metals in the province. On rich ore deposits, there were always many mines that were opened in a cluster or belt, so it’s not a stretch to spread out the production area a bit.
It is also worth mentioning that in order to make use of silver+copper ore, you need the Saiger process (perfected in Nuremberg by 1450, a similar process was also developed in Korea in the 16th century) which uses lead to split silver from copper. This was an important technological innovation and started the Central European silver mining boom in the second half of the 15th century. Many of the rich mines mentioned here were only opened after this process was invented.


Silver

Spoiler

Silver mines typically had huge booms followed by rapid decline. A good example of this is the Bohemian city of Frankenthal. It became famous for its silver rush, grew to be the second biggest city in Bohemia and the big silver coins it minted are where we get the words Thaler and dollar from. This prosperity didn’t even last a full 100 years, however, since it declined rapidly after 1570 when they had to dig deeper and deeper to find any silver.
At the same time, large discoveries of silver in Bolivia and Mexico led to a flooding of European markets with silver, which basically made most European silver mines irrelevant.
In Potosí and Mexican mines, millions of slave workers died to exhaustion or mercury poisoning, A completely different scale than the mining in Central Europe.

This begs the question: are silver rushes represented by events that add silver to locations, like in the Ore Mountains, especially in relation to the Saiger Process? Is depletion represented? It was said in a comment that there is an event that will spawn silver in Schwaz, so I’m assuming the Saiger Process will be represented in some way.

• Tyrol silver mines: Super famous and rich, especially Schwaz, but it required the Saiger process so didn’t produce that much before 1450. Ideally there should be one silver and copper in North Tyrol, and one silver and lead in South Tyrol. Silver locations: Schwaz, Sterzing (no change). Since Schwaz will be added later, it could potentially start with copper instead.
• Goslar and surrounding Harz locations: Very well known mining area in the Middle Ages and exported a lot of experienced miners to Saxony, but lost its importance later on. Still makes sense for Goslar to start with silver mining, it was rich and important at the start of the game. Location: Goslar
• The Ore Mountain silver mining towns: not a lot to say here, info about the Ore Mountain silver rushes (Berggeschrey) is readily available. Famous towns are Freiberg (1168), Schneeberg (1470), Annaberg (1491), Marienberg ( 1520), Joachimstal/Jáchymov (1516). Locations: Freiberg (no change), Jachymov (I guess this will be added at a later date as well)
• Kuttenberg/Kutná Hora produced silver and copper from 1260 but, starting in 1547, depletion became a problem. Its lifetime silver production was comparable to Schwaz. Location: Kutná Hora
• In Moravia, silver was mined in Bruntál/Freudenthal as well as Iglau/Jihlava since 799, its town rights were used as a base for newly established mining towns. Locations: Bruntál (no change), Jihlava

Honorable mentions:
I already suggested this in the France thread, here is a region in the Elsass which is literally called the Silver Valley where plenty of silver mining happened from the middle ages, peaking in the 16th century. This was implemented, so no change is needed!
Friesach in the territory of Salzburg, a rich town that minted currency used all over Austria, was plundered multiple times and burnt down, so had no importance anymore after 1292. Maybe this is what the silver in the Murau location next to Friesach is supposed to represent?

Statistics for average yearly silver production from this German WIkipedia article sourced from a book that I unfortunately couldn’t find any free access for.
1500: North Tyrol 18.3t, Rest of Europe 28.7t
1550: North Tyrol 11.7t, Rest of Europe 50.7t, Spanish Colonies 246.1t
1600: North Tyrol 3.6t, Rest of Europe 37.7t, Spanish Colonies 374.6t

You can see the insane production in the colonies and how fast output could drop in specific European mines.

Iron

Spoiler

• Oberpfalz: One of the most important iron mining regions in Central Europe (probably the most important one in the Late Middle Ages), especially the towns of Amberg, Sulzbach and Auerbach which produced bar iron from Fichtelgebirge ore deposits and sold it to trading centers like Nuremberg and Regensburg. Locations: Amberg, Eschenbach
• Schleiden: Iron produced in the Schleiden valley located in the Northern Eifel was exported to metalworking cities like Liège, Aachen or Cologne.
• Schmalkalden: Known by history for the league of protestants named after the town - one of the capitals of Hesse - but it was also a center of iron production. Local iron ores and rich wood supply from the Thuringian Forest made it an ideal location for iron production, first documented in 1340.
• Iron production on the right bank of the Rhine: The Siegerland, Sauerland and Bergisches Land all produced many different iron goods which were centrally sold in Cologne and exported from there. Towns mentioned as famous for metal goods are Altena, Iserlohn, Lüdenscheid, Balve, Solingen (world famous for knives), Elberfeld, Cronenberg, Lennep, Remscheid, Essen, Hattingen, Bergneustadt, Drolshagen, Olpe, Much, Homburg, Bierenberg, Morsbach, Plettenberg, Siegen.It’s safe to say there was a lot of ironworking done here, and the supplying mines were local, mostly located in the Siegerland and Sauerland. (Note: during the Industrial Revolution, iron and steel production moved towards coal fields, so the Siegerland and Sauerland lost its industrial importance to the Ruhr area where all the coal is located) Suggested locations: Siegen (no change), Olpe, Altena, Korbach, Remscheid
• Edit: As mentioned in other posts her, Wetzlar probably deserves iron as well!

Tin

Spoiler

Here’s an assumption I’m going to make: Brass (copper+zinc) clearly isn’t in the game, but it was just as important as bronze (copper+tin) and most field cannons were made from an alloy called gunmetal which is basically a mix of brass and bronze with maybe some lead added. If brass can be abstracted as bronze, an important zinc mine could be abstracted as a tin mine.
Remember when I wrote about the city of Plombières (German name ‘lead mountain’) in the Limbourg location? It turns out that they didn’t just mine lead here, the area between Plombières and Aachen was actually the most important European source of zinc, or specifically a mineral called calamine. Most brass made in Western Europe in this period probably had some calamine from Aachen in it.
So my suggestion for tin (alternatively lead) is Aachen.

Now for actual tin in the Ore Mountains. All the tin producers that I’ll list here pale in comparison to the production of Cornwall and Devon, which probably deserve a special modifier.
The Ore Mountains have several towns that were known for their tin deposits: Zinnwald (tin forest), Altenberg (the most important), Ehrenfriedersdorf, Sadisdorf, Eger/Cheb, Kaiserwald/Slavkovský les/Císařský les, Schlaggenwald/Horní Slavkov, Schönfeld/Krásno. Locations: Pirna, Cheb

Copper

Spoiler

Copper is in an interesting place because so many famous silver mines also produced a lot of copper. So while there aren’t many dedicated copper mines mentioned, it wasn’t a super rare metal.

• The most important source of copper in Germany (and the main source for Nuremberg) was Eisleben in the Mansfeld region. Location: Eisleben
• Another historic copper mining town is Neubulach in the Northern Black Forest. Location: Calw
• The Archbishop of Mainz set up copper mines in Sommerkahl near Aschaffenburg in 1542; it has mining tools in its coat of arms. Location: Aschaffenburg
• Goslar, Schwaz and Kuttenberg (obvious silver locations) were also important producers of copper, so I suggest adding copper in neighbor locations: Braunlage, Zell am Ziller, Caslav

Lead

Spoiler

• It is documented that the Elector of the Palatinate purchased the lead mine “Grube Marie in der Kohlbach” in 1291. The entire Odenwald region, between Darmstadt and Heidelberg had plenty of mines producing all sorts of minerals, but lead, zinc and vitriol were the most important. Location: Darmstadt
• Rammelsberg in the Harz produced a lot of lead from the Middle Ages. Since the Goslar location should have silver, I'm suggesting the neighboring Alfeld instead.
• Freiberg in the Ore Mountains also produced lead with its silver. On the Bohemian side, there is the town Bleistadt/Oloví which has rich lead deposits. Locations: Schwarzenberg, Loket
• The Siegerland mines that were mentioned for iron, especially Müsen, also produced some lead. The location for this is Altenkirchen.
• The lead mountain near Mechernich was mined since 1394, it’s closer to the Schleiden location but Schleiden itself produced iron, so a good location for this lead is: Daun
• The Sauerland produced lead since Roman times, location: Brilon (no change)
• Pleyberg (today Bad Bleiberg) mined lead that was used for the Saiger process in the Fuggerau. Location: Villach
• The mines in South Tryol (Passeier) produced silver and lead, so one lead can be added here. Location: Meran
• Honorable mentions:
  Pribram produced silver and lead in different periods. It was temporarily closed in the 17th century but opened again in the 18th century. Location would be Beroun but this is better served with mercury since there are already plenty of lead locations.
  The Gurgltal in North Tyrol produced some lead and zinc but not enough to be worth adding, in my opinion.

Gold

Spoiler

None of this gold production can really compare with Upper Hungary/Slovakia at the start of the game, but it did exist.

• Goldkronach in the Fichtelgebirge has a long history of producing gold and is obviously named after it. Location: Bayreuth
• On the Bohemian side of the mountains, there is Bergreichenstein (literally ‘rich stone mountain’) or Kašperské Hory which produced gold from 1337 to 1654. Location: Klatovy
• Eule/Jílové near Prague produced gold from the Middle Ages and financed the University of Prague. Location: Benesov (no change)

Honorable mention: In the 16th century, new gold deposits were mined in the territory of Salzburg, like in Böckstein which now has a mining museum.

Mercury

Spoiler

I read in my sources that mercury producing towns were famous for their hordes of young widows. Mercury poisoning killed miners before they could grow old. I’m not sure if game mechanics allow for a mortality modifier or something like that.

• Stahlberg, despite being named Steel Mountain, was famous for mercury. The town’s coat of arms literally has the alchemical symbol for mercury in it.
  
  Other nearby locations in the Northern Palatinate also produced mercury, towns mentioned are Mörsfeld, Moschel-Landsberg (there is a mercury containing mineral called Moschellandsbergite), and Kirchheimbolanden. Man, German is really not beating the allegations with these place names. Locations: Kreuznach, Leiningen
• West of Prague, mercury was produced in Bohemia, in the towns of Beraun/Beroun and Horowitz/Hořovice. Location: Beroun

Coal:

Spoiler

Germany obviously has very rich coal deposits.
This German source talks about early use of coal (which often has been called coal digging, but it was more than that) and how it became more prevalent to satisfy proto-industrial fuel demand in Germany.
Here are some important coal producing areas with documented production/tolls/taxes on coal:

• Saarland (1371): Saarbrücken, Merzig
• Ruhr (1370): Essen, Dortmund
• Osnabrück (15th/16th century): Osnabrück (fiber if no coal from the start)
• 17th and 18th century expansion of coal production: Hamm, Recklinghausen, Roermond (Netherlands), Zwickau

Salt:

Spoiler

Salt, the white gold. Due to this moniker, some people think that salt was expensive, but it was quite affordable for everyone. The reason you could get so rich trading in salt was that there was basically unlimited demand for it. Not much different from today’s ‘black gold’.
Germany has a lot of important salt producing areas, many towns are named after it (‘salz’, ‘hall’ or ‘Bad’ referring to mineral springs), however some towns are named after salt trade passing through them rather than local deposits, so don’t blindly give every location with Salz in its name salt!

• Lüneburg, famous for its exports to the baltic which lacked salt: Lüneburg, Uelzen
• Salzgitter: Braunschweig
• Halle and its Saale river: Halle an der Saale, Merseburg
• Bad Salzungen, Bad Sooden-Allendorf: Eisenach
• Bad Reichenhall and surroundings: Salzburg, Hallein, Berchtesgaden, Laufen (no change here)
• Bad Gandersheim: Gronau
• Greifswald
• Schwäbisch Hall
• The famous salt road(Hellweg): Soest, Hamm, Lippstadt

Honorable mention: Budweis was famous for its salt stores, but it didn’t produce salt itself, rather it was an important market on the salt road from the Alps to Bohemia which didn’t produce its own salt

Spices:

Spoiler

Saffron was grown all over Austria from the 12th century (German source) and it was allegedly known as the highest quality saffron in Europe. Most of the production happened in Lower Austria and the center of the saffron trade was Krems.
It was also grown in Germany but I didn’t find any source regarding important centers of production.
Location: Krems

Gems:

The two towns Idar and Oberstein (now fused) had rich agate mines and became big producers of jewelry, a lot of goldsmiths settled here. Location: St. Wendel (no change)


Pearls:

Spoiler

While we don’t think of Germany as a pearl producing country today, pearl harvesting in rivers was actually something that was done during the time period. The relevant species of mussel (Margaritifera margaritifera) is very sensitive to pollution and is almost extinct in European rivers nowadays, but they were thriving before industrialization. Their pearls were smaller than the ones from the Persian Gulf, but still highly prized and you can see them in many portraits of bishops or nobles.
Bavaria was the prominent producer and at times restricted pearl ‘hunting’ as a monopoly for nobles.
Adorf in the Vogtland was another center for pearl production, supported by Venetian settlers, and has a pearl museum today.
Suggested locations for pearls: Neuburg an der Donau, Plauen

Amber:

While nothing beats the output of the East Prussian Sambia Peninsula when it comes to amber, it can also be found on the German Baltic coast. Suggested locations: Wolgast, Stralsund (no change)


Marble:

Spoiler

• Auerbach(Bensheim): One of the few actual marble deposits in Germany, it was relevant throughout the period. Bensheim
• Limburg/Lahn, Diez: The so-called Lahn marble was used in the St. Petersburg Hermitage, the entrance of the Empire State Building, the Kreml and several cathedrals built in the time period. It’s not technically marble but a very unique and prized type of stone. Locations: Diez, Usingen

Alum:

Spoiler

As usual, alum here was only prospected for in the 16th century. I’m just going to list the locations in Germany that did end up producing alum:

• Feengrotten: Alum mining started between 1530 and 1544 Location: Sonneberg
• Lignite layers west of Cologne were mined to make dye (van Dyke brown) and alum, starting in the 16th century. Location: Bergheim (wheat if not alum)
• Plauen: An alum mine opened in 1542, I already mentioned it as a pearls location though, so I’ll put Alum in the neighboring Zwickau location

Saltpeter:

Spoiler

There are no natural saltpeter deposits in Germany that I could find.
In Germany, as in many places around the world, saltpeter was mostly produced from manure and feces, so this was done decentralized, all over the place and there weren’t specific locations that would produce and export it. It was also collected in dark places like basements or mines. In some cities, saltpeter collectors were hated because they would come into your basement and destroy things while collecting saltpeter that built up there - this practice was sanctioned because it was an important resource.
One relevant quote I found is that Nuremberg was renowned for its high quality blackpowder andit’s documented how they made saltpeter in big copper cauldrons.
If that counts, then: saltpeter for Nuremberg?, but it’s not really a natural deposit.

Clay:

Spoiler

• Großalmerode near Kassel: Long history of ceramics and clay production, it has big high quality clay deposits. Locations: Kassel, Eschwege
• Siegburg was a producer of earthenware that was widely exported. ‘Siegburger Steinzeug’ is still important today to date archaeological finds from all over Europe to the Late Middle Ages and Early Modern Period.
• Saxony was a center for ceramics production, especially cities like Bautzen and Dippoldiswalde. Locations: Bautzen, Dresden, Meißen
• Schleswig-Holstein was famous for its brick production using local clay. Locations: Slesvig, Eckernforde, Rendsburg
• The Fläming region has large clay, sand and stone deposits left by glaciers. Location: Zerbst, Burg
• Lüneburg was famous for two natural resources it sits on: salt and clay. Obviously salt is the more important one, but clay can be given to a neighboring location: Dannenberg
• The Nuremberg forest produced clay used for molds used by Nuremberg metalworkers. Nearby location: Neumarkt

Stone & Sand:

Spoiler

• The Nuremberg forest was famous for its sandstone and sand production. It supplied most of the stone used for construction in Nuremberg, as well as sand for hourglasses that Nuremberg was a famous producer of.
• The Vogelsberg is the biggest contiguous basalt massif in Europe. There were (and still are) many quarries that produce stone here.
• The Schurwald near Stuttgart produced stone and quartz sand for the city.
• The hills of the Frankenalb also produced stones and exported them through the Main.
• The Bayrischer Wald was rich in quartz sand and wood which allowed it to become a glass producing area.
• The Solling hills have fine quartz sand that was mined for glass production.
• There are certain sandstone regions in Germany that are used for classifying types: Elbe (around Dresden and Northern Bohemia), Ibbenbüren, Ruhr(Dortmund, Mülheim), Obernkirchen, Bentheim, Posta, Baumberge near Münster, Lindlar, Weserbergland and Bremen, Seeberg near Gotha.
• The Fläming region has large clay, sand and stone deposits left by glaciers.
• 
  
• Stone Locations: Bentheim, Steinfurt, Coesfeld, Gummersbach, Erlangen, Fulda, Lauterbach, Parsberg, Bamberg, Diepholz, Wittenberg, Schweinitz, Jüterbog, Göppingen
• Sand Locations: Nürnberg, Recklinghausen, Welzheim, Holzminden, Einbeck, Belzig, Greifenberg, Grimmen, Grevesmühlen, Lingen

Medicaments:

Spoiler

Americans like to call mineral water ‘Seltzer’, which comes from the German town of Selters. It got its name from the Roman name for its mineral water, aqua saltare (dancing water). The scholar Tabernaemontanus ascribed miraculous healing capabilities to the water in 1584, after which it became famous. In the late 17th century, bottling plants were built to export the water.
Another famous spring is located at Bad Adelholzen, which was a popular spa town and people started bottling water in the 17th century as well.
(Both Selters and Adelholzener are of course still well-known brands today)
While the actual export of water only happened later in the time period, I believe that these famous springs with healing water are interesting locations for the medicaments good.
Locations: Wiesbaden, Traunstein
In addition, I suggest adding medicaments to a few abbeys, which would have grown many different herbs in their gardens and preserved medical knowledge.

• Prüm
• Ellwangen: Aalen
• Kempten

Wild Game:

Spoiler

Thanks to my research on the history of forests, I know which forests were used as hunting grounds during the period!

• Schorfheide: Freienwalde, Herzfelde, Templin
• Rüthnicker Heide: Ruppin
• Gelbensande: Ribnitz
• Fichtelgebirge: Vohenstrauß
• Spessart: Lohr am Main
• Untermainebene: Offenbach
• Ebersberger Forst: Ebersberg
• Montabaur: Montabaur

Fur:

Not sure if there should even be any. Obviously furs were produced and traded, but not as famously as the furs imported from afar. I’m suggesting a few fur locations in undeveloped, forested locations: Angermünde, Königsberg in der Neumarkt


Dyes:

Spoiler

There were three main native dyes used in Europe: dyer’s woad (blue), dyer’s weld (yellow) and madder (red). Madder is also the source of the famous Turkey red used to color a fez.
While these are plants that can technically be grown anywhere, there were actually regions that specialized in it, like Languedoc.
In Germany, there was Jülich(Düren), and most famously the Thuringian woad towns Erfurt, Gotha, Tennstedt, Arnstadt, Langensalza: Erfurt, Langensalza, Arnstadt

Fiber Crops:

Spoiler

I’d like to mention this German source about textile trade in and around the Hansa which was very informative!
Fiber crops were mostly flax. Very important in Northern Germany which produced a lot of linen and some canvas. Raw materials were imported from the Baltic, but there was also plenty of local flax production.
Important linen producers that are mentioned: Westphalia(Herford, Bielefeld, Münsterland), Göttingen, Osnabrück, Tecklenburg, and Altmark (Saxon) production, especially in Salzwedel.
In order to support them with local production of flax, I propose the following locations: Tecklenburg, Münster, Lüdinghausen, Beckum, Warendorf, Arnsberg, Lübbecke, Bielefeld, Göttingen, Hannover, Salzwedel, Rostock, Stendal.
Also Osnabrück if no coal at the start there
Southern Germany focused on fustian production, which they essentially had a monopoly on during the Late Middle Ages. Fustian was mostly made from imported cotton, but unlike Asians, Europeans weren’t able to make suitable cotton warp yarns until the textile revolution in the 18th century, so they used flax yarns. Some flax can be placed here: Augsburg, Ulm

Wine:

Spoiler

Germany has several wine regions which produced wine throughout the time period. There is a lot of overlap with fruit, as regions that produced wine usually also produced a lot of fruit, so to avoid entire unbroken chains of just wine producing locations, I’ll also suggest some of them for fruit production instead.

• Mosel and Middle Rhine: Wine is produced along the Mosel and the nearby Middle Rhine slopes. The electorate of Trier was very agricultural throughout the period and wine was pretty much the only valuable product they had. Locations: Mayen, Cochem, Wittlich, Bernkastel, Trier
• Upper Rhine Valley: Wine is produced there on both sides of the Rhine, it’s the warmest region in Germany. Locations: Freiburg, Offenburg, Müllheim
• Palatinate, Rheinhessen and Rheingau: A long strip of wine production all the way from the Southern Palatinate to the slopes on the right side of the Rhine. Locations: Rüdesheim, Mainz, Worms, Speyer
• Rems and Neckar: Plenty of wine and fruit production in this fertile region. Locations: Heidelberg, Mosbach, Heilbronn, Urach, Buchen
• Franconia: Another traditional wine region along the Main near Würzburg. Locations: Würzburg, Schweinfurt (Edit: this could also be extended south to Mergentheim and Öhringen but I'm not sure if that would be too much wine)

There are other small wine producing regions today, like near Lake Constance or in Saxony, but I’m not sure if they were important in the period and there are already a lot of locations I listed.

Fruit:

Spoiler

The Northern Frankenalb is the biggest producer of cherries in Germany today and they have a long history of producing cherries, going back to Medieval monks that planted the trees. Locations: Pegnitz, Ebermannstadt
The Altes Land south of the Elbe is today the biggest fruit producing region in Europe. Fruit production was first documented in Stade in 1312. Locations: Stade, Harburg
Here are the wine region locations that I’m suggesting fruit for: Mayen(actually Koblenz), Karlstadt, Tauberbischofsheim, Bruchsal, Stuttgart, Germersheim

Legumes:

Spoiler

What I found is that legumes were traditionally grown in marshy areas, so I’m focusing on these. I’m also using a German Empire map from 1900 that has some vegetable producing areas marked. Not a great source, but at least it was from before modern agriculture with crazy artificial fertilizers, so it’ll be closer to the time period than anything modern.
Suggested locations for legumes: Neuss, Moers, Emden, Aurich, Winsen, Hildesheim, Blankenburg, Leipzig, Berlin, Potsdam, Brandenburg

Horses:

I found a few sources for horse breeding regions, and it also makes sense to place horses near population centers:
Düsseldorf, Pirmasens, Detmold, Hameln, Halberstadt, Aschersleben, Sangerhausen, Steinburg, Segeberg, München


Wheat & Sturdy Grains:

Spoiler

The predominant grain type in Germany was sturdy grains (mostly rye), but warmer and more fertile regions are able to grow wheat. I also placed some wheat in beer producing regions.
Concentrated wheat producing regions are:

• Kraichgau/Neckar: Vaihingen, Böblingen, Backnang, Horb, Durlach, Baden, Sinsheim, Öhringen
• Wetterau: Frankfurt, Gießen, Büdingen, Schotten
• Other wheat locations: Köln, Buren, Erbach, Miltenberg, Pfarrkirchen, Landau, Eggenfelden, Fürth, Forchheim, Weimar, Grimma, Hamburg, Stettin, Bremen, Hoya, Donauwörth

Sturdy Grain produced in all other agricultural areas:

• Kölner Bucht/Jülicher Börde: Mönchengladbach, Roermond, Geldern, Bonn, Heinsberg
• Osnabrücker Land: Paderborn, Bersenbrück, Vechta
• Dungau: Vilsbiburg, Landshut, Mallersdorf, Straubing, Regensburg, Rottenburg an der Laaber, Freising, Erding, Mühldorf
• Erfurter Becken: Apolda, Naumburg, Sondershausen, Weißenfels
• Magdeburger Börde: Bernburg, Calbe, Magdeburg
• Leipziger Becken: Altenburg, Glauchau, Chemnitz, Rochlitz, Döbeln, Delitzsch, Bitterfeld, Torgau
• Pomerania: Greifenhagen, Pyritz, Saatzig, Regenwalde, Schievelbein
• Other sturdy grain producing locations: Husum, Oldenburg, Dinkelsbühl, Ansbach, Rothenburg, Uffenheim, Neustadt an der Aisch, Schwabach, Fritzlar, Ziegenhain, Alsfeld, Marburg, Frankenberg, Bydenkapf, Wetzlar, Hoyerswerda, Liebenwerda, Mergentheim, Crailsheim, Pfaffenhofen, Friedberg, Indersdorf

Lumber:

Spoiler

There shouldn’t be too much wood in Germany (they imported), especially in the North, but of course there was local production that fueled industries.

• Frankenwald - trees from here were exported through the Main and Rhine all the way to the Netherlands. Locations: Kulmbach, Lichtenfels, Kronach, Coburg, Schleiz, Wunsiedel
• Thüringer Holzland - produced a lot of lumber since its soils aren’t fertile: Eisenberg, Gera
• Wood production in other forests, especially near metal producing areas: Bitburg, Ahrweiler, Dillenburg, Berleburg, Meschede, Kaiserslautern, Zweibrücken, Hanau, Hünfeld, Dermbach, Meiningen, Oberkirch, Friberg, Balingen, Münsingen, Cham, Roding, Burglengenfeld, Tölz, Miesbach, Teltow, Beeskow, Lübben, Lebus, Guben, Zwickau, Ingolstadt, Eichstätt, Heidenheim, Dillingen, Hersfeld, Rotenburg, Regen, Grafenau, Passau, Coblenz(which shouldn’t be named after Koblenz)

Wool & Livestock:

Spoiler

Wool would have been naturally produced in regions that had a lot of livestock, especially in areas where forests had been cleared but the soils weren’t good enough for crops. Examples that I found sources for include parts of Thuringia, the Frankenalb as well as Southern Württemberg. The town of Mölln near Lübeck was a center of wool cloth production.
Both the very south and the north of Germany are mostly focused on livestock, as the soil there isn’t that good for crops - one of the main reasons these regions have historically not been densely populated.

• Suggested locations for wool: Meppen, Lübeck, Stormarn, Ratzeburg, Lauenburg, Waldshut, Villingen, Konstanz, Tuttlingen, Hof, Beilngries, Weißenburg, Ilmenau, Hildburghausen, Prenzlau, Neubrandenburg, Mühlhausen, Nordhausen
• Suggested locations for livestock: Kleve, Rees, Borken, Ahaus, Cloppenburg, Westerstede, Oberndorf, Günzburg, Biberach, Waldsee, Riedlingen, Überlingen, Ravensburg, Wangen, Kempten, Oberdorf, Schongau, Weilheim, Garmisch, Andechs, Landsberg, Kaufbeuren, Memmingen, Rosenheim, Wasserburg, Höxter, Warburg, Hofgeismar, Duderstadt, Osterholz, Zeven, Soltau, Celle, Gifhorn, Helmstedt, Haldensleben, Wolmirstedt, Wolfenbüttel, Burgdorf, Neustadt am Rübenberge, Bückeburg, Minden, Nienburg, Verden, Fallingbostel, Hagenow, Schwerin, Wismar, Gustrow, Parchim, Grabow, Havelberg, Osterburg, Wittstock, Genthin, Strelitz, Waren, Malchin, Demmin, Anclem, Luckau, Calau, Cottbus, Spremberg, Hassfurt, Königshofen, Mellrichstadt, Brückenau

Fish:

Spoiler

Well, this one is pretty simple. Fish was super important for the coastal provinces. Of course, fish from rivers and lakes was also important but not sure it would make sense to represent that, other than Tirschenreuth.
Basically, any North Sea and Baltic Sea location that doesn’t have a reason to have another good should have fish, so:
Leer, Jever, Elsfleth, Ritzebüttel, Neuhaus, Heide, Eutin, Doberan, Rügen, Kammin, Ueckermünde

And that's it! I can't claim that it's an exhaustive list (I don't think that's possible), but it's everything I found in my research so far. Some of the livestock areas are maybe a bit too extensive, but these are less populated regions that really don't have much else going on

Great feedback, as usual, thank you!

 

[Lavilledieu]

Does the Neufchâteau location (the Belgium Neufchâteau) actually have the city? It seems kinda unlikely, Neufchâteau is more northerly located than Bouillon but the location doesn't go more northerly than Bouillon. This would explain why this region felt a bit confusing to me. It seems more natural to me to turn the location into Chiny or Florenville. Chiny would probably be better, at it's also the name of the county of Chiny (Florenville was also part of Chiny).
This would also mean the location should be in the hands of Chiny and not Luxembourg.

I noticed Orchimont, never heard of it, looked it up and was pleasantly surprised to read this tiny village was once quite important! The wiki page didn't mention who actually owned it, but the nearby Bièvre did seem to be part of Luxembourg.

EDIT:
Found this page on Chiny. It contains a nice map of the county: https://www.tintigny.be/loisirs/culture/histoire-de-la-commune/moyen-age/chiny-et-son-domaine-comtal

 

[Pavía]

Further, I have a few questions. Currently, most of the Swiss minors seem to be of a feudal organization. However, some of them were democratic, such as the Waldstätte (Uri, Schwyz, Unterwalden). Others were ruled by city councils, monasteries, and some even just around the starting year, got rid of their city councils based on low nobility and merchants, and the guilds took power (have a look at the "Mordnacht von Zürich"). Will there be any representation of such things in the game or even events around guilds taking power? As far as I remember, this sort of thing happened in many Reichsstädte around this time.

hls-dhs-dss.ch/de/articles/007946/2012-03-30/

This is the current list of Swiss tags, per type:

Monarchies
1. Genève
2. Neuchâtel
3. Langenthal
4. Turn
5. Werdenberg

Republics
1. Solothurn
2. Bienne
3. Lucerne
4. Obwalden
5. Schwyz
6. Uri
7. St. Gallen
8. Como

Cities
1. Bern
2. Zürich

Bishoprics
1. Lausanne
2. Bassel
3. Sion
4. Glarus
5. Chur

Any suggestions regarding them are pretty welcomed, of course.

 

[Pavía]

As a more general sort of question, are the current rulers of Theocracies always shown in the dynasties map mode? Because some of them like Cologne and Hildesheim are labeled with a dynasty but then others like Mainz or Salzburg are not.

Those with a dynasty appear on it, while those not having one (either lowborn, or random/unknown ones) doesn't appear.

 

[Pavía]

@Pavía is Fehmarn island one of the situations similar to Elba island?

For what I've read the island became a Danish fief of the Counts of Holstein in 1326. The only source i find with dates was German Wikipedia

Fehmarn – Wikipedia

de.wikipedia.org

Currently yes, it's part of the Eutin location.

 

[Sharky4152]

1. Noted your input about Hamburg.
2. They're two different tags: Eutin belongs to the 'Bishopric of Lubeca', and Lübeck to the 'Free City of Lübeck'.
3. It's the 'Bishopric of Brema', which is different to the 'Free City of Bremen'.

I think I may give a longer explanation about the last two. We noticed after some time that we had an issue with some German tags: they were named the same, and only their government type differentiated them. Thus, the 'Bishopric of Lübeck' and the 'Free City of Lübeck', etc. The problem that it caused was that if for any gameplay reason, those two countries would become of the same type (let's say, monarchies), they could be named the same exact way in the UI; e.g., 'County of Lübeck' for both tags (which 'under the hood of the script', would be two different: LUB and LBB). One of our QAs came up with a kind of elegant solution to be able to keep all those 'duplicated tags', as it was kind of important to portray correctly the HRE: Why not rename the bishoprics to their Latin version, which was, after all, the 'official name' for the Church? Therefore, we have Bishoprics such as Lubeca, Brema, Riga Lettoniae, Augusta Vindelicorum, etc.

*This is something that only happens in the German world, as the collapse of the HRE as a functional state after the fall of the Hohenstaufen dynasty and the Great Interregnum led to the patchwork of jurisdictions that the HRE is in 1337, with the city council and the bishopric of a certain location having jurisdiction over different places; in the rest of Western Europe this usually doesn't happen (I'm tempted to say 'this doesn't happen at all', but it may be an obscure example here and there, so let's use a safer wording...), as either the city or the bishopric have won the 'jurisdictional race' over the other (as in, let's say, Italy), or they have a sovereign over them applying his own royal jurisdiction over their own lordly jurisdiction (as in France, England, the Iberian kingdoms, etc.).

Should these Bishoprics convert to a non-Papal-adherent faith, would they revert to using their default names instead? Or would Lubeca remain Lubeca, even as a Protestant?

 

[Pavía]

Country: I assume that the two Mindens refer to the Hochstift Minden (ecclesiastical territory) that emerged in the 12th century and the Principality of Minden, which was secularized in 1648. Both locations are part of the modern German district of Minden-Lübbecke. Until the secularization, both locations should be part of the Hochstift Minden.

Yes, one portrays the city (Minden), and the other the Prince-Bishopric (Minda), following the design I explained this morning.

 

[ArVass]

This is the current list of Swiss tags, per type:

Monarchies
1. Genève
2. Neuchâtel
3. Langenthal
4. Turn
5. Werdenberg

Republics
1. Solothurn
2. Bienne
3. Lucerne
4. Obwalden
5. Schwyz
6. Uri
7. St. Gallen
8. Como

Cities
1. Bern
2. Zürich

Bishoprics
1. Lausanne
2. Bassel
3. Sion
4. Glarus
5. Chur

Any suggestions regarding them are pretty welcomed, of course.

What are the key differences between free cities and republics?

Also, how many of these (and which) are part of the Swiss Confederation, and how did you name the IO? Eidgenossenschaft?