Tinto Maps #12 - 26th of July 2024 - Germany

[Inzano]

Austro-Bavarian encompasses all three branches: northern, middle / Danube and southern. He doesn't want to exclude his fellow Carinthians, Southern Styrians and Tyrolese from being called Austrian, does he ?

Or do we just divide the cultures into federal states? For each village, its own culture!. xD

 

[klingonadmiral]

The areas of much of Germany in 1337 being named after mostly artificial post-1945 German federal states looks incredibly odd.

 

[NJay]

Absolutely hyped!
A few things I noticed: Hamburg looks way too big. It looks like you somewhat went with the modern borders, which are the result of the 1937 Greater Hamburg Acts, where Hamburg received a few surrounding towns from the Prussian province of Schleswig-Holstein (most notably including Altona, the biggest city in SH at the time). As this happened relatively recently, the game should probably reflect the pre-1937 borders. Since Hamburg seems to be one of the bigger locations, shrinking it a little shouldn't be too dramatic of a change.

Is the tag in Eutin separate from Lübeck? Or are there two Lübecks?

Also, is "Brema" supposed to be Bremen?

 

[Tavolo87]

Is it not enough with the HRE and the Catholic Church, that you already want even more wonky institutions in Germany?

I don't think we have any more IOs for the first two ages, but then things may spice up when the Age of Reformation and certain Saxonian priest appear...

isn't the black plague an IO as well?

also, don't temporary IO prop up from crusades / coalitions / etc etc?

also also, can't IO be a diplomatic version to form a country / federation? (like forming Northern and Southern Germany, Westphalia, so on so forth with a lot of other formables)

what about the Hansa? How will it be portrayed? A total unique different system? If I play eg as Lübeck and I manage to centralize the Hansa enough, do I get to form my own IO?

Like, the cool thing about IOs when they were first announced was that a country could have been in multiple of them at the same time, thus being a very powerful instrument to represent all the tomfoolery in this historical time. Will we see them just... being used less now? Or will many many IOs eventually prop out as the game progresses?

 

[ArVass]

I think the Bohemian basin around Prague could get some farmlands, maybe?

Also, I sort of wish there could be some mountains along Bohemia's borders

 

[Inzano]

Area Names and Borders: (a bit more medival than modern)
View attachment 1168210
The "von Mark" dynasty, which later had a french cadet branch knwon as "de la Marck" should be called "von der Mark"

Why not Lausitz?

 

[TheTeaFactory]

So Austria is bavarian culture? interesting.
and i'm impatient to restore the natural borders of France... i mean up to the rhine at least , hope theprovinces will be rather nice for that one goal.

always has been, Austria was settled by Bavarians, Austrian dialects are part of the bavarian dialect group.

 

[Daverix]

We think that this is the best way to portray this kind of semi-autonomous community (as let's say, one tag per location wouldn't really represent the situation, either).

Frisian Freedom - I hope there will be then quite the high autonomy/controll-debuff for them. Otherwhise that would be quite the powerful tag, punching quite higher then what it actually could do historical.

 

[eruntano22]

No interest in getting into the madness that is Central European map corrections, but one suggestion on the HRE mapmode itself.
The stripes make me dizzy.
I get that communicating what provinces are in or out of the Empire is important, but this is a bit too much. Telling us a country that is already shaded in an HRE color is also fully in the HRE seems unnecessary, Maybe have stripes on provinces that are in the Empire but not controlled by princes and then different colored stripes for provinces controlled by princes but not in the Empire would make it easier on the eyes. This is just too much.

That aside, lovely stuff here. Excited to see some German Empire borders by 1500 attempts in this behemoth.

 

[Orangechrisy]

What's the Leeuwardenstra dynasty in the Frisian Freedom? The name comes up with 0 results on google so feels odd if its just a fake dynastic name anyways, but is there a way to make the Frisian Freedom not have a dynasty since yeah, no nobility like that. A bunch of other states there seem to be lacking dynasties, is that just from not having put anything there yet or is that intentional?

 

[slupie]

I definitely think it makes sense to split Carinthia, Carniola, and Styria from Austria - all three would later become Inner Austria under the Leopoldine branch, and Carniola and Carinthia in particular have only been ruled by a Habsburg for two years in 1337.

Also, are there ways for German dynasties to split their lands between sons while retaining their close ties? I'm thinking of the Habsburgs until Maximilian I, and the Wittelsbachs and Wettins basically always.

 

[caeppers]

One suggestion, add iron in Amberg. The Upper Palatinate was a significant producer of iron at the time, especially the areas around Amberg and Sulzbach.

An overview: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bergbau_in_der_Oberpfalz
And in a bit more detail: https://www.historisches-lexikon-ba...h-_und_Hochmittelalter#Erzvorkommen_in_Bayern

 

[Dsingis]

I think the pink stripes on this mapmode make it very difficult to read the map properly. Could be something to reconsider. I assume there won't be a specific HRE mapmode, if an IO mapmode like this already exists, so somehow re-designing this into something more readable would be good? Do we really need the pink stripes to indicate the extend, if all members are already highlighted?

 

[Palando]

The areas of much of Germany in 1337 being named after mostly artificial post-1945 German federal states looks incredibly odd.

I agree and think that the best way would be to use the Imperial Circles as base and split if there are too big areas:

So maybe like this:

Styria should also include the "Mark an der Sann" so basically Cilli. Upper and Lower Austria could be combined to the Archduchy.

Tyrol should just be called Tyrol, as the addition of Trentino is also from the 20th century. It was all the County of Tyrol and nothing else.

 

[Dewit]

Hello and thank you for the opportunity to give some feedback,

I noticed some inaccuracies in the terrain mapmode in the area I live in.

1. The locations Remscheid and Altena schoud be hills instead of flatland

2. Maastricht, Heinsberg, Rourmond, Bergheim (missleading name ) and arguably Düren are not on/in hilly terrain, those locations should be flatland. All of those cities/towns are on rivers in very flat terrain all around.

I have been to those places and can provide picures/fotos if that would help, but here is also a topographic map (in German) as backup, that I can recommend

Topografische Karte Deutschland, Höhe, Relief

Durchschnittliche Höhe: 237 m • Deutschland • Deutschland präsentiert eine vielfältige Topografie, die sich von den flachen Ebenen im Norden bis zu den majestätischen Alpen im Süden erstreckt. Im Norden dominiert das Norddeutsche Tiefland mit weiten, flachen Landschaften, die von zahlreichen...

de-de.topographic-map.com

Basically from this

to this:

Best Wishes!

 

[ArVass]

I definitely think it makes sense to split Carinthia, Carniola, and Styria from Austria - all three would later become Inner Austria under the Leopoldine branch, and Carniola and Carinthia in particular have only been ruled by a Habsburg for two years in 1337.

As PUs?

 

[Mid Ocean Ridge Basalt]

I’m happy that modern-day Germany has been mapped in such detail, but the contrast in location and particularly province density with Bohemia is a little jarring. The difference versus Hungarian locations is even more severe.

It makes sense for the fragmented Germany areas to be denser, but would it be possible for locations be added/shuffled around at least smooth the transition to create a more visually appealing map?

 

[Dualninja]

May I please ask why the County Of Zollern is absent, as far as I could tell it was very much present as an independent county in 1337, ruled at the time by count Fritzli the 2nd, though he would die in 1339. I think it's an important inclusion, especially seeing as they were an independent prince in the empire, the county is the ancestral home of the Hohenzollern dynasty and the Swabian branch which ruled the county at the time would eventually become kings of Romania. Also to make the borders work Hechingen (the capital of the county) will have to be split off as a location from parts of Horb, Urach and Balingen, to encompass the lands of the County of Zollern. As currently the county doesn't Ben have it's own location.

 

[TalusOfDixie]

I have to stop and say, these are great maps! I think most of i would have to say has been said already, so i'll just show my love for the work of you developers and all the community contributing feedback to it.

One nitpick, though, in the same way "Austrian" is under the "Bavarian" umbrella (correctly so, IMO), shouldn't the "Saxon" culture be "Thuringian", while "Lower Saxon" be just "Saxon"? I can't help but think that, at least as far as the start-date is concerned, it would be more accurate, since the concept of Saxony as primarily Upper Saxony (as opposed to its traditional, "older" Lower Saxony) didn't near existence yet, and Germans in Upper Saxony were still aware of their proximity to Thuringia (well, most settlers came from there, as the culture map shows by having Thuringian be "Saxon" – It doesn't quite make sense, if one has to take the name, it should be Thuringian, since it's the common denominator).

Just wanted to correct little thing, Tábor in Bohemia was established in 1420 by Hussites

Correct, and not only that, but there is a very good replacement for the location's name – Kotnov, after the castle built by Ottokar II. It could also be Hradište, after the town that was supposed to be protected by the castle, but it seems that after it was destroyed in 1273, its rebuilding wasn't actually taken, but the castle remained (and in 1370 was documented as under the ownership of the Lords of Ustí).

It would be actually quite neat, assuming that the devs want to have the Hussite...Events to be possibly portrayed in-game, if there were an actual event where, let's say, Kotnov location gets renamed as Tábor once 1. it gets seized by rebels or 2. the majority of the location converts to the Hussite preaching – Something like that, it would be one of those small things that add a particular life to the game.

 

[Janpi97]

What a beautiful sight this is. It looks amazing. Even my little hometown Ilmenau has its own location. But instead of Iron, i would suggest Copper or Silver. Since around the 13th century, Copper Shale was mined here. It contained mostly Copper, but also Silver (enough that sometimes Coins were being minted since the 15th Century).

Schmalkalden (the location north to Ilmenau) had on the other hand high quality Iron ore, which was used for medieval Arms production in the middle ages. So for Schmalkalden, i would suggest Iron instead of Stone. (if possible game balance wise).

Oh and by the way, as already mentioned in the comments, its a shame that we are called Saxons and not Thuringians (given that the Saxons were mostly Thuringian Settlers which settled that area from the 11th to 13th century (but i cant deny that Saxons is the more recognizable term, no worries)

Overall its just a piece of Art. Beautiful work so far. Thanks for sharing every step with the Community so far. Love you guys!

Edit: I saw someone mention that the Location Ilmenau could be renamed to Suhl, given the position on the map looks a bit off at first glance. But if we assume that the town is located on the right side inside of the location, its stil quite accurate now. And obviously im biased, but it would be sad to lose the location, given that with Eisenach, its the only Location North of the Thuringian Forest, while Schmalkalden, Meiningen, Hildburghausen and Sonneberg represent the South Side of the Thuringian Forest.
I would rather argue, that Ilmenau should have a border with Sonneberg instead of Arnstadt with Hildburghausen. Ilmenau was the last point before going through the Thuringian Forest if you wanted to follow the Kupferstraße (a trade route starting in Denmark and going all the way to Italy) down south. So you couldn't skip the Thuringian Forest if you would want to walk from Arnstadt down to Hildburghausen.
Sorry for my nitpicking. Its obviously amazing work, i just wanted to give my local insights


Edit 2: Just wanted to add some sources, but while trying to save this edit i found out that i cant add links because i dont have enough posts. But both Schmalkalkdens and Ilmenaus offical websites have these points mentioned or its easy to google in general. Sorry for the inconvenience