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Tinto Maps #13 - 2nd of August 2024 - Maghreb

Hello, and welcome one more week to another Tinto Maps, where we assemble several maps for the shake of it (well, also to gather feedback, I guess). After the nightmarish maps of last week, we’re showing a much less fragmented region this week, the Maghreb. Let’s take a look at it, then.

Countries:
Countries 1.jpg

Countries 2.jpg

This week I’m showing two versions of the country map, one without colored wastelands, and another with them colored (please take into account that some work still needs to be done regarding the coloring of the corridors). Only four new countries are to be shown this week (as Fezzan already appeared some weeks ago). First is first, there are dynamic keys for them similar to the Mamluks, so their full name in the game are ‘Marinid Sultanate of Morocco’, ‘Zayyanid Sultanate of Tlemcen, and ‘Hafsid Sultanate of Tunis’ (Tripoli starts with a random ruler, as we weren’t able to find which was the reigning dynasty in 1337). The main power in this period is the Marinid dynasty, ruling from Fās, after grabbing the power from the Almohads almost a century ago. They start at war with the Zayyanids of Tlemcen, and its capital is close to falling to the mighty Sultan Abu al-Hasan ‘Ali. They also have a foothold in Iberia, around Algeciras and Ronda, which may lead to future campaigns about the control of the Strait of Gibraltar.

Diplomacy.jpg

And this is the starting diplomatic situation between Morocco and Tlemcen, with the capital of the latter almost surrounded by the former...

Dynasties:
Dynasties.png

Here we have the three main dynasties of the Maghreb in 1337, the Marinids, the Zayyanids, and the Hafsids. Apart from those, the dynasties of Tripoli and Fezzan are randomly generated, as we don’t know who was ruling in those places at that specific time.

Locations:
Locations.png

Locations 2.png

Locations 3.png
Here are the maps of the locations. In the first, you may see the corridors (the non-named locations) connecting the Maghreb with the Saharan inner lands and oases. Regarding the location density, we might want to increase it in a few places (that Siṭṭāt location is too big compared to its neighbors, for instance).

Provinces:
Provinces.png

We’re open to suggestions for the provinces, as usual.

Areas:
Areas.png

The areas of the Maghreb correspond to their historical division (al-Aqṣā, al-Awsat, al-Adna, and Tripoli). The northern section of the Sahara is split in two areas, the Western Sahara, and the Sahara Oases.

Terrain:
Climate.png

Topography.png

Vegetation.png

Better late than never!

Cultures:
Cultures.png

The cultural division of the region is very, very interesting, we think. The first thing that I want to stress is that we’ve divided the most Arabized zones from the more traditionally Berber ones. The more Arabized cultures are the Moroccan, Algerian, Tunisian, Lybian, and the Hassaniya tribe, in the western Sahara. Meanwhile, the Berber-speaking peoples are divided into Masmuda, and Sanhaja in al-Maġrib al-Aqṣā; the Zenati in al-Maġrib al-Awsat; the Kabylian, Chaoui, and Mozabite in al-Maġrib al-Adna; and the Eastern Berber (a name that we will probably change, given the feedback already received in the Egyptian Tinto Maps) in Tripoli. The Berber-speaking Tuareg and the Saharan-speaking Toubou inhabit the central Saharan Oases.

Religions:
Religions.png

Most of the region’s population practices Sunni Islam, with a very important zone where Ibadism is the majority, more or less corresponding with Mozabite and Eastern Berbers. Although it’s not shown on the map, there are two religious minorities present, the Mustaʿravi Jews, in a bunch of urban centers across the region, and some native Christians spread through al-Maġrib al-Adna.

Raw Materials:
Raw Materials.png

The Maghreb is very rich in different materials, especially Morocco (which was used a long time ago as a ‘RGO-gameplay’ testing ground by our QAs). The Saharan corridor is way less productive, but it’s somehow important for the next map…

Markets:
Markets.png

The market centers of the region are placed in Fās and Al-Jazā'ir, which makes for good market access and distribution for the start of the game, in general terms. You might notice that trading happens across the corridors, which makes for a real connection between the markets to the north and south of the Sahara in 1337. This means that we can effectively simulate the trading of Saharan and sub-Saharan goods (salt, alum, gold, ivory) to the north until maybe some European countries decide to explore down the African coast and make direct trading in the Gulf of Guinea, avoiding the Maghrebi intermediaries.

Population:
Population.png

Population 2.png

Population 3.png
The population of the region is around 5,5M, with an interesting distribution: al-Maġrib al-Aqṣā and al-Maġrib al-Adna have more or less a similar population, with al-Maġrib al-Awsat having half of them, and Tripoli and Saharan Oases being way less populated.

And that’s all for this week! The next one we will travel across the Sahara, and take a look at the region of Western Africa. See you!
 
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Do the Christian minorities in the region have the same culture as their surroundings or do they possess their own culture descended from Afro-Roman?
 
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Hello, I have a question regarding saltpeter, because I noticed that Maghreb is another region where no location has saltpeter as its raw good. So far, in all Tinto Maps released at the moment, from what I saw there are only seven locations that can produce it: 1 in Anatolia, 1 in Low Countries/Germany, 2 in Italy and 3 in Iberia. Will there be other ways to get it besides trading? It seems to be rather crucial good for production of firearms, and its scarcity is worrying me a little.
There are other sources of saltpeter in the game, maybe @Johan will show it on a Saturday. ;)
 
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In a comment on one of the early Tinto Maps you mentioned that you were doing Europe in a random order. Since you are now done with Europe save the North Atlantic Islands etc. Will you now be doing Africa in a random order, taking one continent after another?
Maybe, we'll see. :cool:
 
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First i want to thank paradox for this great amazing job ur doing its very fascinating and impressive well done guys, and to add to very good place for all amazighs cultures me myslef chaoui from constantine algeria thats exactly how it is in real life, the only thing i want to talk about is that constantine needs a coastline its would be perfect to add gigal, al millia and al coll to constantine province to make it more realistic and accurate cuz annaba stretching from ver yeast + those province is inncacurate and again thanks for ur great job
 
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like Fezzan and iserholn corridors ?
Fezzan is a good example of a country controlling the locations in between several corridors, indeed.
 
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Thank you for the clarification! Sorry if my message sounded pointy, I understand there will be minor issues here and there during the development process. I didn't intend to nitpick, just shared what I noticed. Thank you for working so hard on this game we're all so eagerly waiting for <3
It's fine, I just wanted to make my point clear. Thanks for your kind words. :)
 
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Wait, we still have a bit of Europe left.

Or is that poor guy researching cultural minorities of Golden Horde still working on it?
He's not even there yet, our fellow @Aldaron has just finished the Caucasian minorities today. :D
 
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An idea for dynamic naming!

It was common for turks to name a city after the sultan its builder or its conqueror.
For example Ala'iye=Alaeddiniye after Sultan Alaeddin. Because he built the city.
Mesudiye
Kemaliye

Other names are
osman gazi, after Osman
Orhangazi, after Orhan
Hüdavendigar, after Murad I
etc may be difficult but maybe it's possible to rename a location after a conquest or an upgrade to a town status after the king or general or pasha?

I am not familiar if other cultures have got this feature as well. Alexandria, alexandretta are one example.
 
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View attachment 1170941

Lookin at the locations map Laghouat looks like a location that is under control of Tlemcen at game start, it is fine, I think that the region could be represented as having low control and the possibility for a separatist state appear here should exist.

However, Tugurt starts the game uncolonized, a fast Google research informs that Tuggurt Sultanate probably appeared at the start of the XV century, so, the decision to not have it at game start in 1337 is reasonable. However, this country should appear at game through a dynamic history events and when it appears there should exist a possibility for the player tag switch to Tuggurt even in ironman.

Africa between XIV-XVIII century is a continent and a timeline full of cases where regions without a central government (in game represented by tagless locations) organized themselves in states for the first time. There should be a historical mechanic that enables the historical outcomes of tribal people founding a state for themselves (in game terms, locations without any tag spawning a tag) and the player should have the capacity to tag switch even in ironman. Otherwise countries (some of them, important regional players) as Ashanti, Dahomey, Loango, Kasanje, Lunda and Luba in Africa would be unplayable.
1. Laghouat is a location with a beautiful 0% control by Tlemcen currently, indeed (as usual, take them as WIP numbers).
2. We will talk more about the challenges of portraying Africa in the starting date of Project Caesar during this month, both in Tinto Maps and Tinto Talks.
 
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Good DD. Can you block trade in the Saharan corridor?
 
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I assume that until the Europeans starts to sail down to the coast of sub-Saharan Africa the North African states will grow rich on being a conduit for the trade flowing from this area to Europe. However, what happens when the Europeans do discover sub-Saharan Africa, will the trade switch overnight to being seaborne, will it be a gradual erosion of the North African states dominance in this trade as the Europeans build up their trade posts and colonies in the region?

Also, could we potentially get some insights into how the mechanics of this reorientation of trade occurs?
We expect it to be more gradual than overnight, as the Europeans may need to set up some outposts, build some trading infrastructure, etc., as it happened historically.
 
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Does Djerba have a large Jewish minority? The community is there since before the Romans.
It's 5% of the population there, which could be considered kind of large, compared to other Jewish communities.
 
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Does terrain of the corridors matter, or is it part of the bug mentioned earlier?

(Aka, no hills in today's southern Algeria?)
It's taken into consideration for battles and attrition, for instance.

We might reconsider the terrain of the Tademait Plateau, which is the huge wasteland in the middle.
 
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There are other sources of saltpeter in the game, maybe @Johan will show it on a Saturday. ;)
Potassium nitrate was produced in a nitrary or "saltpetre works". The process involved burial of excrements (human or animal) in a field beside the nitraries, watering them and waiting until leaching allowed saltpeter to migrate to the surface by efflorescence. Operators then gathered the resulting powder and transported it to be concentrated by ebullition in the boiler plant.

A nitre bed is a similar process used to produce nitrate from excrement. Unlike the leaching-based process of the nitrary, however, one mixes the excrements with soil and waits for soil microbes to convert amino-nitrogen into nitrates by nitrification. The nitrates are extracted from soil with water and then purified into saltpeter by adding wood ash. The process was discovered in the early 15th century and was very widely used until the Chilean mineral deposits were found.
 
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Religions:
Although it’s not shown on the map, there are two religious minorities present, the Mustaʿravi Jews, in a bunch of urban centers across the region, and some native Christians spread through al-Maġrib al-Adna.[/I]

Any chance we could get a look at these minorities?

I assume there’s some way to see minority populations that are too small to show on the normal map mode, right? Not a question I’ve thought about until now. Something like highlighting said religion to show where it is in the world, regardless of how prevalent they are in any one spot.
 
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I understand the location concerns here, but Algeirs being the market center over Tunis at the start seems very ahistorical - at the very least, Tunis should get its own market as one of the largest cities in the Islamic world, if not the entire world. Just compare the two paragraphs on Algiers and Tunis in the 14th and 15th centuries:View attachment 1170979View attachment 1170980
To be honest, take it a bit as a placeholder. We wanted a second market center in Maghreb, as one was obviously not enough, and we initially set it up in Tunis; however, with the old calculations, it was getting most of the trade in Sicily and Sardinia, over Naples and Genoa, so we changed to Algiers, which worked much better for gameplay balance. We may give it another try in the map review, as the calculations have changed since we did that (you may have an example of this happening some Tinto Maps ago, with the market center of the Low Countries).
 
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