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Tinto Maps #13 - 2nd of August 2024 - Maghreb

Hello, and welcome one more week to another Tinto Maps, where we assemble several maps for the shake of it (well, also to gather feedback, I guess). After the nightmarish maps of last week, we’re showing a much less fragmented region this week, the Maghreb. Let’s take a look at it, then.

Countries:
Countries 1.jpg

Countries 2.jpg

This week I’m showing two versions of the country map, one without colored wastelands, and another with them colored (please take into account that some work still needs to be done regarding the coloring of the corridors). Only four new countries are to be shown this week (as Fezzan already appeared some weeks ago). First is first, there are dynamic keys for them similar to the Mamluks, so their full name in the game are ‘Marinid Sultanate of Morocco’, ‘Zayyanid Sultanate of Tlemcen, and ‘Hafsid Sultanate of Tunis’ (Tripoli starts with a random ruler, as we weren’t able to find which was the reigning dynasty in 1337). The main power in this period is the Marinid dynasty, ruling from Fās, after grabbing the power from the Almohads almost a century ago. They start at war with the Zayyanids of Tlemcen, and its capital is close to falling to the mighty Sultan Abu al-Hasan ‘Ali. They also have a foothold in Iberia, around Algeciras and Ronda, which may lead to future campaigns about the control of the Strait of Gibraltar.

Diplomacy.jpg

And this is the starting diplomatic situation between Morocco and Tlemcen, with the capital of the latter almost surrounded by the former...

Dynasties:
Dynasties.png

Here we have the three main dynasties of the Maghreb in 1337, the Marinids, the Zayyanids, and the Hafsids. Apart from those, the dynasties of Tripoli and Fezzan are randomly generated, as we don’t know who was ruling in those places at that specific time.

Locations:
Locations.png

Locations 2.png

Locations 3.png
Here are the maps of the locations. In the first, you may see the corridors (the non-named locations) connecting the Maghreb with the Saharan inner lands and oases. Regarding the location density, we might want to increase it in a few places (that Siṭṭāt location is too big compared to its neighbors, for instance).

Provinces:
Provinces.png

We’re open to suggestions for the provinces, as usual.

Areas:
Areas.png

The areas of the Maghreb correspond to their historical division (al-Aqṣā, al-Awsat, al-Adna, and Tripoli). The northern section of the Sahara is split in two areas, the Western Sahara, and the Sahara Oases.

Terrain:
Climate.png

Topography.png

Vegetation.png

Better late than never!

Cultures:
Cultures.png

The cultural division of the region is very, very interesting, we think. The first thing that I want to stress is that we’ve divided the most Arabized zones from the more traditionally Berber ones. The more Arabized cultures are the Moroccan, Algerian, Tunisian, Lybian, and the Hassaniya tribe, in the western Sahara. Meanwhile, the Berber-speaking peoples are divided into Masmuda, and Sanhaja in al-Maġrib al-Aqṣā; the Zenati in al-Maġrib al-Awsat; the Kabylian, Chaoui, and Mozabite in al-Maġrib al-Adna; and the Eastern Berber (a name that we will probably change, given the feedback already received in the Egyptian Tinto Maps) in Tripoli. The Berber-speaking Tuareg and the Saharan-speaking Toubou inhabit the central Saharan Oases.

Religions:
Religions.png

Most of the region’s population practices Sunni Islam, with a very important zone where Ibadism is the majority, more or less corresponding with Mozabite and Eastern Berbers. Although it’s not shown on the map, there are two religious minorities present, the Mustaʿravi Jews, in a bunch of urban centers across the region, and some native Christians spread through al-Maġrib al-Adna.

Raw Materials:
Raw Materials.png

The Maghreb is very rich in different materials, especially Morocco (which was used a long time ago as a ‘RGO-gameplay’ testing ground by our QAs). The Saharan corridor is way less productive, but it’s somehow important for the next map…

Markets:
Markets.png

The market centers of the region are placed in Fās and Al-Jazā'ir, which makes for good market access and distribution for the start of the game, in general terms. You might notice that trading happens across the corridors, which makes for a real connection between the markets to the north and south of the Sahara in 1337. This means that we can effectively simulate the trading of Saharan and sub-Saharan goods (salt, alum, gold, ivory) to the north until maybe some European countries decide to explore down the African coast and make direct trading in the Gulf of Guinea, avoiding the Maghrebi intermediaries.

Population:
Population.png

Population 2.png

Population 3.png
The population of the region is around 5,5M, with an interesting distribution: al-Maġrib al-Aqṣā and al-Maġrib al-Adna have more or less a similar population, with al-Maġrib al-Awsat having half of them, and Tripoli and Saharan Oases being way less populated.

And that’s all for this week! The next one we will travel across the Sahara, and take a look at the region of Western Africa. See you!
 
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A completely different matter, but I can see an issue with culture conversion occuring for the Saharan corridors. If I remember correctly, culture conversion is basically a flat amount per month, right? And the idea is that because population growth is exponential, there is a "threshold" beyond which cultures will retain their existence, or in other words, depopulated provinces (potentially with lots of immigration) will be converted quickly. Now, I'm sure the Saharan corridors are not exactly immigration targets, but the population numbers should be very low, so I fear that culture conversion will, in this case, "arabise" the corridors before the urban centers. And I'm sure this is subject to rebalancing anyway, but it seems to me that culture conversion should be greatly increased for urban pops compared to rural and especially tribal pops, and it should also scale with control of a location, representing the idea that a centralised state will tend to impose its culture more than a decentralised one. (France comes to mind here.)
 
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The market centers of the region are placed in Fās and Al-Jazā'ir, which makes for good market access and distribution for the start of the game, in general terms. You might notice that trading happens across the corridors, which makes for a real connection between the markets to the north and south of the Sahara in 1337. This means that we can effectively simulate the trading of Saharan and sub-Saharan goods (salt, alum, gold, ivory) to the north until maybe some European countries decide to explore down the African coast and make direct trading in the Gulf of Guinea, avoiding the Maghrebi intermediaries.

I assume that until the Europeans starts to sail down to the coast of sub-Saharan Africa the North African states will grow rich on being a conduit for the trade flowing from this area to Europe. However, what happens when the Europeans do discover sub-Saharan Africa, will the trade switch overnight to being seaborne, will it be a gradual erosion of the North African states dominance in this trade as the Europeans build up their trade posts and colonies in the region?

Also, could we potentially get some insights into how the mechanics of this reorientation of trade occurs?
 
not yet . as a descendent of such diaspora myself i say that wouldnt be considered a massive migration till the 1600s
This is not true, there would have a large Andalusian diaspora in the Maghreb. For exemple in the Hafsid Sultanate certain estimates put the population of Andalusians in Ifriqiya at around 8-10%. Source: The Making of a Meditteranean Emirate: Ifriqiya and it's Andalusis, 1200-1400.

Just as in the Maghreb was a space known for inter-kingdom migration Andalusia was a part of it as well, famously Ibn Khaldoun immigrated into Andalusia and many intellectuals did the same, many Mosques in Bejaia were of an Andalusian style as well, so it's a little silly to say immigration would have only majorly happened one way until the 17th century.

1722608478524.png
 
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Here you have the Terrain maps, and I'll also just upload them to the main post (along with the 'fixed' Dynasty map); sorry for the delay:

Climate.png

Topography.png

Vegetation.png
 
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"Algerian" culture in the hodna region seems so off, the culture was not something until up the arrival of the Ottomans when they consolidated the central part of the maghreb into one eyalet. If you want to represent arabic cultures, Hilali (arabic tribes that migrated to the maghreb) is better for such thing
 
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Something that I will like to note is that Marinid control in Iberia in 1337 did not reach very inwards, as they only controlled two noteworthy locations Algeciras and Gibraltar as they had sent an army from Algeciras to capture Gibraltar in 1333 (which they successfully did). Ronda was given to Granada by the Marinids in the late 13th century and would remain in Granadese hands (unlike Algeciras) until it's fall to the Spaniards in 1485.

A brief overview of why the Marinids abandoned their holdings in Iberia.
View attachment 1170892
View attachment 1170893

Why the Marinid expedition took place after the fall of Gibraltar.
View attachment 1170899
View attachment 1170902

The last expedition of the Marinids in iberia with Algeciras loss to the Castilians after it's defeat. And the final abandonment of Marinids Iberian possessions, as Gibraltar would come under control of Granada shortly after.
View attachment 1170914

Basically the locations of Ronda and Marbela should be under the control of Granada in 1337 while Morocco should only hold Algeciras and Gibraltar after their successful jihad for Gibraltar 4 years earlier. With black stripes should be the new Granadese Morocco border.
View attachment 1170916
I would also recommend to give that red salient area to the Ronda location, since that salient apart from looking awkward it's almost about to cut the Granadese holdings in half.

I know that this Tinto maps is for the Maghreb region but since technically this area is controlled by Morocco who is in the Maghreb it should also count (I hope).

Ronda was directly ruled by the Marinid sultan's son (a common practice in the Marinid state) Abu Malik Abd al-Wahid, and was even the capital city of his holdings in al-Andalus, it's likely accurate as it is

edit to add:
Screenshot_20240802-154333.png
 
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At the time the ruling dynasty of Tripoli was the 'Ammarid dynasty. Founded by Banu Thabit ibn 'Ammar in 1327. Banu Thabit died in 1327, having been assassinated by the son of the previous ruler.(Take a guess as to how Banu Thabit came to power). The throne was left to Muhammad ibn Thabit. Muhammad was assassinated as well, in 1348. As his son ruled immediatly after Muhammad, it is safe to say he would have been born before the start date, and been at least 5 years old, probably older.
This would give the following family tree: the current ruler Muhammad ibn Thabit, his dead father Banu Thabit, and his son; Thabit ibn Muhammad.

Source: The Encylcopaedia of Islam, 2nd edition, volume I, page 448.
 
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Even if they are muslims should't Tlemcen be officially a kingdom? Everywhere I look on the internet I only read about the Kingdom of Tlemecen and not the Sultanate even if they where ruled by a Sultan and I know why, can someone explain this to me?
wasnt even a kingdom , it had an emir , so it was an emirate and thats like a Dutchy , it was morocco who had a Sultan in the period there and almost conquered all of north africa if not for a defeat in tunis
 
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I understand the location concerns here, but Algeirs being the market center over Tunis at the start seems very ahistorical - at the very least, Tunis should get its own market as one of the largest cities in the Islamic world, if not the entire world. Just compare the two paragraphs on Algiers and Tunis in the 14th and 15th centuries:
Screenshot_20240802_162856_Wikipedia.png
Screenshot_20240802_162958_Wikipedia.png
 
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Will these names change if these countries get a different dynasty? I've been meaning to ask about dynastic tags.
We have a system allowing for dynamic country name changes depending on the ruling dynasty, but for now these countries specifically don't have it hooked to them, and use a custom name. But yes, potentially we could the 'Wattasid', 'Saadi' or 'Alaouite' Sultanates appearing
 
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It was an emirate, the title of king was very rare in muslim countries at the time for religious reasons. Their "kings" held the title of Amir Al-Mu'min. Wikipedia is simply wrong. It happens
wasnt even a kingdom , it had an emir , so it was an emirate and thats like a Dutchy , it was morocco who had a Sultan in the period there and almost conquered all of north africa if not for a defeat in tunis
 
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So how does location density translate into balancing? Particularly does it make europe stronger as it has more locations or is this purely based on pops. Would it be hard to take a lot of individual locations without getting too much AE? And how much are you able to "play tall" without access to certain goods?