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Tinto Maps #15 - 23rd of August 2024 - Horn of Africa

Hello, and welcome one more week to Tinto Maps! After a short break, we’re back to the duty of sharing more maps! Today the region we will look at is the Horn of Africa! So let’s take a look at it, without further ado:

Countries:
Countries.PNG

Here we have the countries around Nubia, Ethiopia, and Somalia. The first ones are organized around the ancient kingdoms of Makuria and Alodia, which control the Upper Nile region. In the second area, the Empire of Ethiopia stands as the main power, with some smaller countries around it. Finally, the two Islamic sultanates of Ifat and Ajuraan stand as the main powers in the Horn and Somalia. Finally, around the African Great Lakes, there is a country that can be considered a ‘settled’ one, Kitara.

Dynasties:
Dynasties.PNG

The dynasties of the Horn. There are some historical ones, while others are randomly generated. The most famous one is probably the Ethiopian House of Solomon, from where all their Negus come. The Walshma ruler over both Ifat and Ajuraan and we have some others, such as the Medri of Medri Bahri, the Umar of Mogadishu, the Banu Kanz of Makuria, or the Baranzi of Kitara.

Societies of Pops:
Pop-Based.PNG

A new map has popped up! Here you can see the countries that we consider as ‘Societies of Pops’, as they were presented in the last Tinto Talks. We have the famous Oromo people in the lands between Ethiopia, Ifat and Ajuraan; the Kunama, Gumuz, and Berta in the lands between Ethiopia; and Alodia, and the Zaghwa to the north of Wadai; there are a few more to the west, but I’ll share that picture in the Western Africa thread, as it’s more appropriate there. There are more Stateless Societies of this kind that we would like to add in the future, if it is possible due to our schedule.

Locations:
Locations.PNG

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Locations! You might notice that the density is quite unequal. Unfortunately, the archaeological findings for the period are scarce, specially out of the most known areas and a lack of urbanization in most of the territory has made the finding of proper non-anachronistic settlements quite a challenge. Keep this in mind when making suggestions. ;) It has been that dramatic in some areas that we had to use names of tribes and rivers, a bit contradicting our own rules, but the areas had to be represented as they were active parts in the development of the region.
One thing: a big chunk of the Arabian peninsula can be seen in today’s Tinto Maps; but, please, reserve the feedback for its future DD, when we’ll show all of the peninsula. Apart from that, you can see more detailed maps if you click on the spoiler button, as usual.


Provinces:
Provinces.png


Areas:
Areas.png


Terrain:
Climate.png

Vegetation.png

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The terrain types of the region are quite interesting and diverse. It is marked by the Rift Valley, which creates different biomes, such as the Ethiopian Highlands and Plateau, or the African Great Lakes. That also marks a divide between Arid, Tropical, and Oceanic climates. The vegetation of the region also ranges from desertic and sparse, to jungle forests. And one more note: you may also note that 'Marshes' have been renamed into 'Wetlands', as we could put some work into that suggestion the last week.

Natural Harbors:
Natural Harbors.png


Cultures:
Cultures.png

Another interesting map this week… You might notice that the lands of Ethiopia have a very mixed cultural situation. While more to the west and south, we are representing ‘tribal lands’ in a more homogeneous way, with kind of fixed boundaries to represent the different groupings. This doesn’t mean that there wouldn’t be a mixing of cultures, but this was one of the first areas to receive a minority's review and the scope was limited mostly to Ethiopia.

Religion:
Religion.png

Another interesting map! Miaphysite and Sunni are the more widespread religions in the region (while not all areas have their mixed populations, such as Nubia as you might notice, they eventually will as we cover more of the map in our sprints). Animism is completely placeholder, as usual, and you might see some pockets here and there (If you have specific suggestions, please do them). You may also notice a purple minority inside Ethiopia… That is representing the Beta Israel Judaism in the provinces of Semien, of course!

Raw Materials:
Raw Materials.png

The raw materials of this week! A big chunk of the region has livestock as its main raw material, while also having some agricultural goods as Wheat or Sturdy Grains here and there. The most unique good in the region is Coffee, which is cultivated in the Ethiopian highlands. And there are also some precious resources spread here and there, such as Gold, Ivory, Gems, and Incense.

Markets:
Markets.png

The main market centers of the region are Axum and Mogadishu, with ‘Adan/Aden being the main one controlling the access to the Red Sea. There are some weird calculations ongoing on the Somalian inner lands, that are already reported, and we’ll take a look at why is that happening.

Population:
Population.png

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The population of the region! There are approximately 12.3M people in the Eastern African subcontinent; although take into account that it also comprises the regions of the Southern Great Lakes and the Swahili Coast, which we haven’t shown today, so we probably have to discount around 4M people from it (Swahili Coast accounts for 1.7M, and the Great Lakes for 4M, although that region is divided between today’s and next week’s Tinto Maps), for a total of around 8M.

That’s all for today! Speaking of next week’s Tinto Maps, it will be meaty, as it will cover Central, Eastern, and Southern Africa! See you!
 
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Any interesting situation of I.O. in the region?
The Autocephalous Patriarchate of Alexandria (as the Church of Ethiopia is still attached to it).
 
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Question: Who are the Baranzi dynasty of Kitara? Wikipedia says that Kitara would have been ruled by the Chwezi dynasty in this time period. All I could find on the Baranzi is that they are a traditional clan of the Baruuli people which aren't even represented on the culture map - so why do they rule over Kitara?
 
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Societies of Pops:

Not a comment on the map but I think it would be more accurate and less of a mouthful to call these Stateless Societies instead of Societies of Pops. Even settled societies under a state are 'societies of Pops'. What you're describing are societies without a state / peoples who are not governed by a state.
 
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Wtf is this location sizes lol it seems granularity approach of PC only meant for Europe
There are areas in this regions which are akin to Europe (Ethiopia), and from there, the location density needs to be augmented, as other areas need to have bigger locations to make them fit. As we've already said, it doesn't make sense for us to have the same location in the whole world as in the Holy Roman Empire.
 
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looks very good! a couple of notes:

- definitely feels like there should be more societies of pops around the Berta/Gumuz, the Dinka for sure would seem to qualify and you'd probably want the Nuer as one too so you could maybe model their migration and conflict with the Dinka later on, though that might be too far from the start date
- similarly and much closer in timeframe, the southern Nilotes (particularly the Luo, but this includes groups like the Maasai as well iirc) who I'm not sure were that far south this early, should definitely have a way to migrate from the South Sudan area into their modern locations. I'd imagine there's probably some content for the Oromo migrations (or mechanics?), I think they would be a good fit for something similar to them as well
- lastly, while the Ethiopian empire was more centralized around the start date I think it's probably too unified here. the core Ethiopian provinces are probably fine like this and can get broken up later naturally, but for the south it's probably better to have a few vassals/tributaries for the non-Christian areas. the Kingdom of Kaffa for example wouldn't quite exist for a few more decades at this point but there was probably a pre-existing state there according to oral tradition. having studied the region a lot of sources purposely over represent Ethiopian control over the south for political reasons, and unfortunately the lack of native sources makes it hard to judge exactly what the political situation there was at many points as I'm sure you guys know. will try and find some solid sources on this later but to be on the safe side there should probably be at least a few native principalities/minor kingdoms that aren't directly incorporated into the state in the south
 
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So not all stateless peoples are covered by "Societies of Pops"? Interesting choice.
I don't know if the Beta ʾƏsrāʾel are their own separate culture and you just forgot the mention them in the culture map, but if they are not, they really should be, as even converted Beta ʾƏsrāʾel were not really accepted into mainstream Ethiopian society, similar to the conversos of Iberia. I'm glad you guys made Jews their own cultures because it allows for the representation of crypto-Jewish communities like this, rather than having a separate religion like in CK3.
Speaking of Beta ʾƏsrāʾel and Societies of Pops, I see you guys decided to not include the (admitedly probably mythical) Kingdom of Simien, which would be the closest thing to a playable Jewish country at game start (well, probably not since we now know banking dynasties are playable hehe) but given that Ethiopia's Jews lived in relative isolation from the crown, they (and perhaps other tribal groups under nominal Ethiopian sovereignty now that I think about it) could be Societies of Pops? Or do you guys have a policy of not having Societies of Pops representing nations whose homelands fall squarely under the control of settled countries.
Also, "Ethiopia" at this time actually refers to Subsaharan Africa in general, and Nubia more broadly, at least in the West, so I'd suggest Northern/Central/Southern Ethiopia areas be renamed to "Abyssinia". The country of Ethiopia should still be called Ethiopia though, as that was their self-designation.
Finally is there a reason why you went with "Sudanese Arab" and not just "Sudanese"?

btw did you guys get rid of the "jungle" vegetation type? The Congo Basin is just "Forest".
Yes, 'Beyte Yisrael' is a separate culture. And regarding your question, those pops would fall under our criterion in the category of 'minority pops', not that of 'society of pops', as they're part of the Ethiopian state (while the Oromo people wouldn't be considered part of it, even it there are some Oromo pops inhabiting some of the southern provinces of Ethiopia).
 
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There are areas in this regions which are akin to Europe (Ethiopia), and from there, the location density needs to be augmented, as other areas need to have bigger locations to make them fit. As we've already said, it doesn't make sense for us to have the same location in the whole world as in the Holy Roman Empire.
Of course but at least not the 100x area of hre locations bruh
 
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There are areas in this regions which are akin to Europe (Ethiopia), and from there, the location density needs to be augmented, as other areas need to have bigger locations to make them fit. As we've already said, it doesn't make sense for us to have the same location in the whole world as in the Holy Roman Empire.
It's still off-putting when the dunes of arabia are 3 times as dense as all of somalia.
 
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We're doing the final touches to the region, so very, very likely next week.

PS: That's why we are reluctant to promise review dates; sometimes it has been quite fast, but with #4, we had a lot of feedback and work to address.
Are you working on the other Feedbacks at the same time???
 
@Pavía The Adan market seems to be skipping over the Axum market and creating an exclave between Mogadishu and Axum. Is that supposed to happen or is it a mistake in the data? Or does Yemen have a unique "Flying Merchant" technology? :oops:

View attachment 1178478
Some weird market calculations behavior. I already reported it, and one of our Internal QAs has created a ticket to solve it properly.
 
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@Pavia

First of all, great work, as always.

Two questions, one regarding non-tag cultures, are they going to represent corresponding part of population of the location once it's colonized?

And second question is, not that I mind the change, is there any other reason for renaming marshes to wetlands, or is it strictly more precise terminology?
 
As an Ethiopian who is learning secondary school grade history i would like to thank you for the research you have done to develop a game I am keen to play but there were some inaccuracies I found
1, The existence of the sultanate of Dahalak. Maybe I didn't see clearly but there should be a sultanate on those islands
2, The religion of the people in the Oromo and other tribes and cultures in the outskirts of the Ethiopian empire had almost a monotheistic religions the most notable being Waaqeffanna as it still has some believers in the modern day.
3,
Around the southern part of modern day Ethiopia there was the chiefdom of Kafa (yes it only has one f), so even if it is not a land based nation it should be a pop based one like the Oromo shown in the map
4, the port of Zelia was an important sea port not only to Ethiopian history but to the history of the entire horn of Africa as the control of the port caused many wars like the wars between the empire of Ethiopia and the Shewa, Ifat, and Adal sultanates and emirates so it should have its own market.
5,The Ethiopians should have at about 1.05 million people since today Ethiopia has around 125 million.
6, the dynasty for Medri bahri should be no be medri since it means land. P.S. Merdi bahri means land near the sea.

if any of this information helps you out then I will be very happy. Thanks for developing this game with the help of the community
 
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@Pavía, are you really sure about doing the rest of Africa in a single TM? Also, will Madagascar be included in this?
As you could see last week (and in this thread so far) number of people on this forum who can give constructive feedback to the maps of sub-Saharan Africa in the XIV century isn't that high, so it's unlikely they will be overwhelmed by it.

In fact the one issue everyone agrees should be improved received so far no constructive feedback at all that I've seen - everybody wants to see animism broken up, no one knows how.
 
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The Dynasty map shows a lot of empty land which is not covered by any Societies in the respective mapmode. Does it mean that land has zero pops, or that they're so unorganized they couldn't even form a Society of Pops?
There are wastelands to the north (Sahara) and west (the Congolian rainforests). We also have the only region of the world that is not yet mapped, the current lands of the Central African Republic, which we will most likely finish while addressing either the Western African or the Eastern African map review.
 
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@Pavía The Adan market seems to be skipping over the Axum market and creating an exclave between Mogadishu and Axum. Is that supposed to happen or is it a mistake in the data? Or does Yemen have a unique "Flying Merchant" technology? :oops:

View attachment 1178478
Do some people just not read the text in the dev diaries/Tinto maps posts? Sure feels like it sometimes.
 
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