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Tinto Maps #2 - 17th of May 2024 - Iberia

Hello everybody, and welcome to the second post of Tinto Maps! We’re really pleased about the great reception that the first one had last week, and also about the great feedback that we received. Just so you know, we have more than 70 action points from it that we will be implementing soon in the game.

Today we will be unveiling the map of Iberia in this super-secret project! So let’s start showing maps without further ado:

Countries:
Countries.jpg

The situation in 1337 shows a strong Crown of Castile under the rule of Alfonso XI, who has overcome the problems of his troublesome minority. To the east, we have the Crown of Aragon (it’s named that way, even if it currently doesn’t appear like that on the map), which is fighting for hegemony over the Mediterranean. An offspring of it is the Kingdom of Mallorca, ruled by a cadet branch of Aragon since half a century ago, that also has a couple of northern possessions centered on Perpignan and Montpellier. To the north, the Kingdom of Navarra is ruled by a French dynasty, its titular queen Jeanne, a member of the Capetian dynasty, being married to Philippe, Lord of Évreux. To the west, Portugal has a tense relationship with Castile, with a war being fought during 1336. To the south, the Nasrid dynasty holds power in Granada, backed by the Marinids of Morocco, who have a foothold in the peninsula centered around Algeciras and Ronda. And yes, Andorra is a starting country.

Locations:
Locations.jpg

Note: We are aware that there are some locations that could be added here and there, as this was one of the first maps that we created, and we weren’t completely sure about the location density we would like to have in the game. Some examples of possible locations that we’d like to add during a review would be Alicante, Tarifa, Alcobaça, Tordesillas, Monzón, or Montblanc. Also, you might notice that Zaragoza is named 'Saragossa'; this is not final, it's because we're using it as our testing location for the dynamic location naming system, as it has different names in Spanish (Zaragoza), Catalan (Saragossa), English (Saragossa), French (Saragosse), or Arabic (Saraqusṭa).

Provinces:
Provinces.jpg

Although it looks a bit like the modern provincial borders, take into account that those are based on the provincial reform of Francisco Javier de Burgos, which were also inspired by the cities/provinces that were accountable for the ‘Servicio de Millones’ during the reign of Philip II. Also, please, don't focus on the province names, the language inconsistency is because we were also using them as a testing ground.

Terrain:
Climate.jpg

Topograhpy.jpg

Vegetation.jpg

Iberia has one of the most complex terrain feature distributions in the entire world. We've also discussed this week that we're not very happy about the Vegetation distribution, which we'll be reworking, so feedback on this topic is especially very well received.

Cultures:
Cultures.jpg

Quite standard cultural distribution here, based on the different languages of Iberia (Asturleonese was still a language back in that time, although close to being opaqued by Castilian, after one century of joint ruling). The Andalusi represent not only the Muslim inhabitants of Granada and the Strait of Gibraltar but also the Mudéjar communities spread throughout much of the territory.

Religions:
Religion.jpg

The Sunni populations present here match the Andalusi pops of the previous map. Although it’s not shown in the map mode, there’s another important religious community in Iberia, the Sephardic Jews, who inhabit several cities and towns.

Raw Goods:
Raw Goods.jpg

This is also a map mode that we'll be revisiting next week, and feedback is also very welcomed. A curiosity: for the first time in a Paradox GSG, there is the Mercury resource in Almadén.

Markets:
Markets.jpg

This is the current distribution of markets, please take into account that it is based on the current gameplay status of the system and that it won’t necessarily be its final status. We tested in previous iterations having market centers in Lisbon and Burgos, but they weren’t working as we wanted; thus why we only have market centers in Sevilla and Barcelona. As the markets are dynamic, it might be possible to create new market centers, so a Portugal player might want to create a new market in Lisbon after some years (although having access to the market of Sevilla is juicy if you get enough merchant capacity on it).

Pops:
Pops.jpg


And that’s all for today! Next week we will be traveling to France! See you then!
 
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Someone must have said this already, but... why is the fish resource colored yellow and livestock blue? :D
I'm going to guess it's because if fish, usually located next to blue water tiles, was blue it might be too visually confusing.
 
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Yes, Iberian feudalism was different from French feudalism.
Feudalism in the Iberian Peninsula was different to the one of France and England, yes, but neither exist an "Iberian feudalism".

As for Portugal hardly anyone could support differenciate the vassals, it would not be the same for Castille (who had "Adelantados Mayores"), and much probably Aragón with its "Virreyes" and Consuls (for some areas).

In the case of Castille would be arguably much more accurate represent the "Adelantados" (some time local nobles, some times individuals from the royal family) as a sort of vassal than integrated territories (that they weren't all with the exceptions of those belonging to Castille before the Concordia of Benavente (1230)).
As well for Castille since the rise of the House of Trastamara the feudal model become much more similar to the French one.

I cannot speak as much for the case of Aragón as I do not know it very well.
 
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So:

Originally there was Saffron here, IIRC, which was converted into Spices. We have to test a bit more if this works, or if we need to make Spices a bit more scarce in Europe.
Well, Rosemary was indeed an spice widely produced so it makes senses, to the point that is one of the most used spice in Western Andalucia.
 
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As we can see in the maps, the distribution of cultures and religions are highly related, speaking of Andalusi. This topic has been discussed in several threads before, and hope that their would be some mechanics making this relationship meaningful in convertion and assimilation.
 
Feudalism in the Iberian Peninsula was different to the one of France and England, yes, but neither exist an "Iberian feudalism".
As for Portuguese hardly any one could support differenciate the vassals, it would not be the same for Castille (who had "Adelantados Mayores"), and much probably Aragón with its "Virreyes" and Consuls (for some areas).

In the case of Castille would be arguably much more accurate represent the "Adelantados" as a sort of vassal than integrated territories (that they weren't at all with the exceptions of those belonging to Castille before the Concordia of Benavente (1230)).

I cannot speak as much for the case of Aragón as I do not know it very well.
Adelantados were not succesory nobility like dukes, they were named by the king to rule in his name. In any case Alfonso X had already centralized Castile a lot, and then Alfonso XI spent the beginning of his rule (before game start) further centralizing Castile. There is 0 reason to have Castile with vassals.

Edit: It's the same for viceroys, they were appointes by the king. Aragon could be represented divided by 3, but not Castile.
 
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It's Perpinyà, not Perpignan.

Valencia names are wrong too, they are in Spanish (Xàtiva, València, etc.).

And so some in the Franja (border between Aragon and Catalonia), ex. Casp not Caspe.

Aragonese names are wrong too, they don't use the Aragonese language but Spanish. In Aragonese is Uesca, not Huesca; Belchit, not Belchite.

Palma is not Palma de Mallorca. This last name came after the centralization of Spain. Not Ibiza, but Eivissa, etc.


Hyped for the workc!
 
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Adelantados were not succesory nobility like dukes, they were named by the king to rule in his name. In any case Alfonso X had already centralizef Castile a lot, and the Alfonso XI spent the beginning of his rule (befoe game start) further centralizing Castile. There is 0 reason to have Castile with vassals.
1) Yes adelantados were (generally) not herditary. That could be easily represented as a type of vassal.
2) The weren't always strightly designated by the king but follow several other power dinamics depending on the region of the "Adelantamiento" (from the church to local nobility), some adelantados were even not ratified or recognised by some kings (the Castro family, Pai Gomes Charinho are good samples regarding recognition after and during political uprisings).
3) While Castilian territories before 1230 were pretty much integrated (maybe with some exceptions up to the north with complex local dynamics (Hermandad de las Marinas, Basque lordships)), it was not the case for the areas under previous Galicia-Leon kingship. After Afonso X there was an uprising both in Galicia and Leon claiming Juan I as a privative king. Galicia remained rebel until 1305 with the Galician defeat of the 1st Battle of Porto de Bois. And after that u have the case of the "desnaturalization" of Galicia durign the reign of Pedro I, as well the Guerras Fernandinas, Jhon of Gaunt and Constanza, and the conflicts between the Hansa and Castille and the castillian fleet sanking Hansa ships in the coast of A Coruña where they were trading (which speak poorly of the land control of the king in some areas).
So, saying that they were centralized is pretty much wrong for some of the areas of the Crown.
 
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If the both the owner and the province is catalan, the city of ''Valencia'' should be named València, which is the correct catalan name, since ''Valencia'' without the è is the spanish version of the name. Plz correct<3
 
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Viana del Bollo? Orense? Ginzo de Limia? Is it possible to consider using the official toponymy in these towns?
Funnily enough we haven't seen yet "Niño del Aguila" or "Mellid".
Jokes aside right now Galicia in the map is quite a mess from an historical, human and cultural point of view. I hope they will improve it (and no just the toponymy).
 
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1) Yes adelantados were (generally) not herditary. That could be easily represented as a type of vassal.
2) The weren't always strightly designated by the king but follow several other power dinamics depending on the region of the "Adelantamiento" (from the church to local nobility), some adelantados were even not ratified or recognised by some kings (the Castro family, Pai Gomes Charinho are good samples regarding recognition after and during political uprisings).
3) While Castilian territories before 1230 were pretty much integrated (maybe with some exceptions up to the north with complex local dynamics (Hermandad de las Marinas, Basque lordships)), it was not the case for the areas under previous Galicia-Leon kingship. After Afonso X there was an uprising both in Galicia and Leon claiming Juan I as a privative king. Galicia remained rebel until 1305 with the Galician defeat of the 1st Battle of Porto de Bois. And After that u have the case of the "desnaturalization" of Galicia durign the reign of Pedro I, as well the Guerras Fernandinas, Jhon of Gaunt and Constanza, and the conflicts between the Hansa and Castille and the castillian fleet sanking Hansa ships in the coast of A Coruña where they were trading (which speak poorly of the land control of the king in some areas).
So, saying that they were centralized is pretty much wrong for some of the areas of the Crown.
The problem with that is that all those rebellions were because a succession candidate that was in a certain region gained support from local nobility, but there wasn't a "duke of Galicia" that could be made playable as a vassal, which is a necessity if you want to have one part of the Crown as a vassal.

Edit: a successor candidate gaining support from the nobility in a certain part of the country is not a sign of decentralisation, it's just the nature of a Civil War.
 
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So it appears that what the map labels as "cold arid" corresponds to the Köppen climate ""cold semi-arid". I for one think that that is a better named, but I am from a rather dry area, so I may be biased.
As a point of comparison for people who don't know what this climate is, the other name for it is "steppe climate", as it is found across central Asia and the American Great Plains, as well as dry plateaus like central Iberia, Anatolia, and America's Great Basin.
I really hope we get to North America sooner rather than later, I am so jealous of everyone who has gotten to see their home towns.
Also we are all fake map nerds, we don't even have the Köppen climates memorized.
Edit: due to climate change, I think my hometown is BSk (cold semi arid) now.
 
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You should really add some other layer of information to the location population mapmode because it's very hard to look at it and quickly figure at a glance where most of your people live. Maybe colour the location depending on their population? You know, like you've had in vicky 2 or even eu 4 (with its development) Or even colour the numbers themselves?
 
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The problem with that is that all those rebellions were because a succession candidate that was in a certain region gained support from local nobility, but there wasn't a "duke of Galicia" that could be made playable as a vassal, which is a necessity if you want to have one part of the Crown as a vassal.
But no one is speaking of any "duke of Galicia". We are speaking of the lack of centralization and the pertinence of creating vassals (for the case "adelantamientos" and maybe other models for "La Hermandad de las Marismas" and other types of lordships). And adelantamientos would be perfectly playable (in fact it would add a layer of political conflict and flavour regarding revogations, change of "adelantado", etc.).

And in some way there actually was a "duke of Galicia", not in name but recognised as such by their contempraries and pairs. U have the count of Lemos Pedro Álvares Osorio that was regarded as "Cabeza y Luz de los Señores de Galicia" (or something alike, I do not remember exactly the phrase). Others as Fernando Ruis de Castro were regarded as the head of all Galicia (and not just because the title of "Adiantado Mor", in fact the title is partly consecuence of their status as head of that region).

As well those conflicts are partly because of royal candidates, yes, but is not that those candidates win appreciation over a place (towns, nobles, etc.) but more like that place see them useful to improve their "conditions"/"stand". That's clearly the case in the 14th century for Galicia. U have a place linked to England, Flanes, Hansa and Portugal (through trade and culture and family links for the last one) and an European conflict with a dynasty aligning with the France and its allies (Trastamara), that will make the case for Galician towns and nobles to find any other candidate to preserve their economy and links (Pedro I, Fernando I de Portugal, Jhon of Gaunt, etc.).

And in that sense I really think that for some areas we cannot speak seriously of a centralized reality or integration until Isabelle I. Not even near seing the huge list of conflicts in that regard and the lack of agency of the castillian kings to face them.

Edit/PS. As well u must take in account some of those candidates (Juan I) were proposed before any Civil War was happening. So it is not an stable argument.
 
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