Tinto Maps #27 - 22nd of November 2024 - Oceania

[Kotyk-durkotyk]

Already done:
View attachment 1221345

I have noticed, thanks a lot!

I just think we have latinised Volhynia nearby, then Halicia would look more consistent, as well as Halicia-Volhynia, byt Halych or Halych-Volhynia are OK too

 

[Pavía]

for North America will English names be shown as well? I really want to see if Keswick is a location right above Toronto-

On that note, single location minor Keswick Empire with super modern technology?

I think that all the locations of NA have a native name. We may want to add the English dynamic loc at some point, but well, it will take some time...

 

[Pavía]

Am I missing something or are some location maps missing? like we don't have a close-up for palau, micronesia, guam and mariana islands, marshall islands, kiribati, nauru, tuvalu, french polynesia, tokelau, niue, american samoa and cook, pitcairn and easter islands.

It's non-trivial to add some dozens of maps to the post (multiply each region per the type of map). But we can do something: If you guys have an agreement over which wide regions should I show, and which maps are more important (probably culture and raw materials, as the others are either more straightforward or WIP), I may be able to show additional maps.

Which is also something to take into consideration: we're already planning to either enlarge or to make wastelands the islands, so it's much more clear which are playable, and which aren't.

 

[Pavía]

I was very surprised about the one big language 2/3rds of Australia.

The South Australian (state, not region) museum mentions 46 languages in south Australia.

Aboriginal Living Languages South Australia

www.samuseum.sa.gov.au

This article repeats the 46, and mentions that each tribe had its own language, but that they were related.

Aboriginal Languages of South Australia - History Hub

More than 50 Aboriginal groups occupied what became known as South Australia in 1836, each having a distinctive language and defined territory.

sahistoryhub.history.sa.gov.au

The wiki thread on the Pama-Nyugan language group (which seems to be what that language represents)

Pama–Nyungan languages - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

mentions that it comprises 306 languages, some of which are hard to group together, others are as similar as to near-dialects on par with the differences between the Scandinavian languages. That suggests grouping them together is only valid if you group Swedish and Danish together...

If you want a breakdown of where those languages should go I'd suggest contacting this person. From the header they appear to have such a list, but you would need to discuss how you were intending to use it - https://anggarrgoon.wordpress.com/2...ages-were-spoken-in-australia/#comment-136716. They are the source referenced in wikipedia.


They were small, but very historically and economically significant. As the only location that nutmeg and mace grew the VOC used them to monopolise the trade in a single spice. That was the same tactic they later used on cloves, but doing it with nutmeg and mace so early gave the VOC a boost that allowed their domination of Indonesian trade.

VOC – United Dutch East India Company | Western Australian Museum

museum.wa.gov.au

The Dark History of Nutmeg: How the Dutch East India Company Waged War for Profit

The dark history of the nutmeg trade: how the VOC committed atrocities in pursuit of profit on the Banda Islands.

medium.com

Swedish and Danish are grouped, in the Scandinavian 'language', which is part of the Germanic 'family'. Then, both of them are 'dialects', so we can add location and character name flavor to them. So those are the levels to take into account for any language rework suggestion.

 

[Pavía]

For religions, has the dreamtime ended?

Yes, it's a good time in Spain to get up from a siesta.

Jokes aside, we plan to make some religious groups, so we're not entirely sure how we'll make 'the religion previously known as Dreamtime'.

 

[Pavía]

after how many DLCs do you think you'll release the Terrain Test Island?

How much money are you willing to pay for it?

 

[Thorum]

Sure, but it's not a ridiculous difference, especially considering that 73% is the current number which would have been higher during the game's timeframe.

Looking forward to your Tasmania proposal with 73% wasteland

 

[Pavía]

A general comment after the feedback we've received in this Tinto Maps, and also a foreword for the next ones (the Americas). One of the aspects of the game that we want to work on and make a bit more homogeneous in the next few months is the setup of Societies of Pops/Stateless Societies/whatever. This is disconnected from its playability, as they require completely different inputs (scripting vs programming).

Making it synthetic, it's relatively difficult to set strict categories for so very different societies, as some were agrarian, others were based on hunting-gathering, others based on aquaculture, some were settled, others were nomadic, some had chiefly structures, while others were horizontal, with so many different combinations possible... And to be clear, we're considering the situation existing in 1337, which makes the task even harder.

With that said, we'll do our best to try to have the SoPs look consistent over the different continents. And we'll also consider your feedback, regarding what could be played as a 'land-based' country, to try to address your expectations. We'll also ask for some patience and understanding, as in some cases, we will have to stick to the general criteria, to try to make a great, cohesive, and balanced game.

 

[Fawr]

- Local Market
With Oceania having plyable countries, the region needs to have a market center, in my opinion the most accurate location would be Tonga, because Tonga was the central component of a complex network of exchange activities in Western Polynesia [1].

Did any of your sources cover the local market?

The in-game effects of such a market would be things like stone and wood from one island being used for buildings in multiple other islands. If only the lightest jewellery or luxury items were occasionally traded I wouldn't think it met the benchmark.

 

[korandder]

After looking at location sizes for Australia (~8000 sq km per location for the main island of Tasmania) and the location sizes for a lot the Pacific islands (< 1000 sq km), I feel like many coastal locations in Australia should be smaller and most of the Pacific Island locations should be larger.

 

[Zjarr]

As someone with a bit of a background in pacific archaeology and linguistics I have a couple comments: potential playable tags for Tonga (Tu'i Tonga) and Samoa (remnants of Tu'i manua) and potentially Pohnpei in Micronesia would all make sense as these were at least partially centralized states in 1337, especially Tonga. Hawaii had fairly centralized states under a ruling king for each island as well, but they didn't project power in the same way Tonga did at this phase in history. There is also the potential for more centralized states in and around the Manokwari (birds head) peninsula in New Guinea, specifically Yapen and Biak islands which both had paramount chiefs or 'kings' and Fakfak/Kaimana on the peninsula itself, but the historical sources are pretty thin- I just think if we are representing Ternate and Tidore as playable tags in 1337 its not too far of a stretch to make other papuan trading kingdoms playable as well.

 

[King of Zoot]

I feel like it should be pointed out that The Great Dividing Range wasn't named as such for the sake of poetic flair. It was impossible for preindustrial armies to traverse large stretches of the mountain range.

 

[tomaltachpaulson]

I’ve had a go at redrawing the North Island of New Zealand (Te Ika-a-Māui) to address where names were off and realign boundaries along the main mountain ranges. In particular, I suggest adding more mountain wasteland (marked in brown) along the Tararua, Ruahine, Kaimanawa etc ranges, while leaving the appropriate gaps at places such as the Hutt Valley and Manawatū Gorge. I’ve also suggested paring back the wasteland around Taupōmoana, and where possible basing locations around key rivers such as the Waikato, Whanganui, and Manawatū.

Here is the list of suggested location names:

1. Waitangi (after the historically-significant locality)
2. Whangārei (after the town and harbour)
3. Tāmaki Makaurau (te reo Māori name for Auckland region)
4. Hauraki (after the adjacent gulf and the Hauraki Plains at the southern end)
5. Tauranga (after the town and harbour)
6. Whakatāne (after the town and river)
7. Taupō (after the town and the lake [lake name: Taupōmoana])
8. Waikato (after the river)
9. Kāwhia (after the harbour, landing place of the Tainui)
10. Taranaki (after the mountain)
11. Whanganui (after the river)
12. Manawatū (after the river)
13. Te Whanganui-a-Tara (te reo Māori name of Wellington Harbour / Port Nicholson)
14. Wairarapa (after the lake and associated district)
15. Tararua (after the mountain range and associated district)
16. Heretaunga (after the Heretaunga Plains)
17. Wairoa (after the river)
18. Te Tairāwhiti (te reo Māori name of the area)

This keeps to the same 18 location density as in the original map. In yellow, I’ve marked up some larger locations that could be split in half to increase location density if desired (ie Whangārei, Waikato, Whanganui, and Manawatū) as well as Te Onetapu, an area of the central volcanic wasteland that could become a location. However, I don’t think most of these splits are really necessary, as they tend to break up areas that sit well together anyway. I’m also unconvinced that Te Onetapu should move out of the wasteland category—after all, it isn’t classified as a desert for nothing, despite being traversable. It might be better as a narrow north–south wasteland corridor wedged in-between Ruapehu and the Kaimanawa mountains on either side, but that might be straying into excessive detail.

 

[KitChaos]

Can't wait for terrain testing island WC

 

[KitChaos]

I would argue that the hawaiians were a country, at least at some point in their history. Maybe not in 1337, but they should definitely be able to reform (as should most SOP's)

 

[SerpentsFang]

I don't know if anyone has written an essay on Papua yet, but the mountainous regions are the temperate most populous part of the island and should not be wasteland, the jungles on the other hand are sparsely populated. Similar populate spread to Colombia, Peru, and Ethiopia.

 

[FFLS]

A general comment after the feedback we've received in this Tinto Maps, and also a foreword for the next ones (the Americas). One of the aspects of the game that we want to work on and make a bit more homogeneous in the next few months is the setup of Societies of Pops/Stateless Societies/whatever. This is disconnected from its playability, as they require completely different inputs (scripting vs programming).

Making it synthetic, it's relatively difficult to set strict categories for so very different societies, as some were agrarian, others were based on hunting-gathering, others based on aquaculture, some were settled, others were nomadic, some had chiefly structures, while others were horizontal, with so many different combinations possible... And to be clear, we're considering the situation existing in 1337, which makes the task even harder.

With that said, we'll do our best to try to have the SoPs look consistent over the different continents. And we'll also consider your feedback, regarding what could be played as a 'land-based' country, to try to address your expectations. We'll also ask for some patience and understanding, as in some cases, we will have to stick to the general criteria, to try to make a great, cohesive, and balanced game.

Why are you ignoring the Tu'i Tonga empire and the Saudeleur dynasty?

 

[Big_birdy]

rice should be an rgo in northern and eastern Australia

Spoiler: distribution of wild Orzya species

Spoiler: distribution of Swamp Rice Grass

Spoiler: distribution of Hastings River Reed

 

[Big_birdy]

every map I have of aboriginal Australia

Spoiler: dust storms

View attachment 1220322

Spoiler: run off and ground water

View attachment 1220324

Spoiler: rainfall

View attachment 1220325

Spoiler: climate

View attachment 1220327

Spoiler: temprature

View attachment 1220328

Spoiler: vegetation

View attachment 1220329
View attachment 1220332

Spoiler: specialized economies

View attachment 1220330
View attachment 1220331
View attachment 1220343
View attachment 1220352

Spoiler: popualtion density

View attachment 1220333

Spoiler: trade routes

View attachment 1220334

Spoiler: tindale groups

View attachment 1220341

Spoiler: habitability map

View attachment 1220342

Spoiler: use of fishing hooks

View attachment 1220344

Spoiler: use of water craft

View attachment 1220346

Spoiler: distribution of bush tobacco

View attachment 1220347

Spoiler: European land exploration

View attachment 1220348

i forgot to mention Gambay is a great resource for indigenous groupings and placenames

 

[2neutrons]

I’ve had a go at redrawing the North Island of New Zealand (Te Ika-a-Māui) to address where names were off and realign boundaries along the main mountain ranges. In particular, I suggest adding more mountain wasteland (marked in brown) along the Tararua, Ruahine, Kaimanawa etc ranges, while leaving the appropriate gaps at places such as the Hutt Valley and Manawatū Gorge. I’ve also suggested paring back the wasteland around Taupōmoana, and where possible basing locations around key rivers such as the Waikato, Whanganui, and Manawatū.

View attachment 1221727

Here is the list of suggested location names:

1. Waitangi (after the historically-significant locality)
2. Whangārei (after the town and harbour)
3. Tāmaki Makaurau (te reo Māori name for Auckland region)
4. Hauraki (after the adjacent gulf and the Hauraki Plains at the southern end)
5. Tauranga (after the town and harbour)
6. Whakatāne (after the town and river)
7. Taupō (after the town and the lake [lake name: Taupōmoana])
8. Waikato (after the river)
9. Kāwhia (after the harbour, landing place of the Tainui)
10. Taranaki (after the mountain)
11. Whanganui (after the river)
12. Manawatū (after the river)
13. Te Whanganui-a-Tara (te reo Māori name of Wellington Harbour / Port Nicholson)
14. Wairarapa (after the lake and associated district)
15. Tararua (after the mountain range and associated district)
16. Heretaunga (after the Heretaunga Plains)
17. Wairoa (after the river)
18. Te Tairāwhiti (te reo Māori name of the area)

This keeps to the same 18 location density as in the original map. In yellow, I’ve marked up some larger locations that could be split in half to increase location density if desired (ie Whangārei, Waikato, Whanganui, and Manawatū) as well as Te Onetapu, an area of the central volcanic wasteland that could become a location. However, I don’t think most of these splits are really necessary, as they tend to break up areas that sit well together anyway. I’m also unconvinced that Te Onetapu should move out of the wasteland category—after all, it isn’t classified as a desert for nothing, despite being traversable. It might be better as a narrow north–south wasteland corridor wedged in-between Ruapehu and the Kaimanawa mountains on either side, but that might be straying into excessive detail.

this is way better than the paradox one, i cant help but want more density though