Tinto Maps #27 - 22nd of November 2024 - Oceania

[korandder]

After looking at various language and tribal maps of Tasmania (mostly those on the Tasmanian Languages Wikipedia page but supported by maps @Big_birdy posted) I think there is a good argument for splitting the Toogee location in two with the western half retaining the name Toogee. For the eastern half, which includes the western side of the River Derwent estuary (the location of the centre of today's Hobart), Bruny Island and the Huon river valley, I would propose the name Nuenonne following the AIATSIS map (which looks to be where most of the other Tasmania location names are from). Linguistically, the language spoken in Nuenonne looks to be related to those spoken to the north and east in Lairmairrener and Paredarerme and unrelated to that spoken to the west in Toogee. Related to this, Lairmairrener looks to share a langauge with Toogee in this Tinto Maps yet the scholarship mentioned in the Wikipedia article all supports Lairmairrener and Paredarerme being the most closely related areas in Tasmania lingustically.

This also provides a split on vegetation type, with much of Toogee being grassland and Nuenonne being forested. In terms of white settlement, Toogee is and was sparsely settled while Nuenonne hosted the first and largest settlement (Hobart). In terms of PC terrain types, I would call Nuenonne hills and Toogee mountains.

Another location change I would consider in Tasmania is splitting Paredarerme into a northern half and a southern half given that it is the largest location of the more populous north and east coasts. Both of these would be hills and woods.

Please find attached my crayoning of new locations in Tasmania.

 

[Maxipuchi]

Pacific Expanded (Part 2)
Back again with the 2nd part of my proposal. Glad to have seen a positive reaction to the first.
Other parts: Part 1, Part 3,

Part 2: Eastern Polynesia

Today we will be covering the rest of eastern polynesia.

As last time, a few notes to begin with:

• As with my Greenland Proposal, I have opted for a maximalist approach. That is, I have included every island that I felt was large or important enough to include, and many that I felt weren't, I am giving as much information on these as I can and the devs can decide wether to take any of these suggestions or not. I doubt most of my additions will make it in.
• I will put my references at the bottom of the post.
• Wherever I have written 2 names for a location, the Native/Older name will come first, with the more common name second. On a couple cases I have picked a different native name than what is commonly used to distinguish the locations better.
• Marae are ceremonial stone buildings, in some of the outlying islands they're some of the only surviving architectural remains as houses were made of more perishable materials.
• Many of these islands are really small, if the devs want to add them many of them will have to be "augmented".
• Because I used a heightmap for these islands, the atolls show up as outlines with the lagoons being blank, wherever you see a location that looks like an outline it's because it's an atoll.
• Using Gall Stereographic projection.
• Some things I will not cover in these posts are:
  
  • I will not cover religion, as I do not consider myself knowledgable enough on the topic.
  • I will not Cover Australia or New Zealand, as I am sure there will be plenty of other people to cover those areas.
  • I will (probably) not cover mainland New Guinea.

Group 4: Austral Islands & Southern Cook Islands

Locations:

Spoiler: Areas

Name	Description	Terrain	Vegetation	Climate	Raw Material	Culture	Language
Rapa	Archaeological work has revealed large fortified villages as well as intensive irrigated taro fields. Rapa is fairly unique in it's settlement pattern of fortified ridge-top villages, with 25 hill forts occupying defensive positions on the island's circular volcanic crater rim. Some of these forts have been dated to the 14th century, though most of them were built after the 16th. Furthermore, archaeological chronology has indicated a presence as early as 1020, with the main colonisation phase likely taking place in the 12th century. There are to the east of Rapa 4 volcanic rocks protruding from the sea, they are called Marotiri and due to their tiny size and uninhabitability I have not included them in my map.	Hills	Forest	Subtropical	Fruit	Rapa	Tahitic - Rapa
Raivavae	Raivavae has numerous Marae, colossal statues, and roads, indicating a dense pre-contact population. Archaeological work in the early 90s found over 800 prehistoric structures between Raivavae and Tubuai.	Hills	Grassland	Subtropical	Stone	Austral	Tahitic - Austral
Tubuai	Tubuai has been in habited since the early 13th century at the latest, there are many Marae on the island, and other structures which together with the ones on Raivave add up to over 800 archaeological remains, suggesting a dense population.	Flatlands	Forest	Tropical	Fruit	Austral	Tahitic - Austral
Rurutu	According to oral tradition, Rurutu was settled by Tongan navigators between the 10th and 13th century. There was then an attempted takeover by settlers from Raivavae in the mid 13th century, this attempt was fought off but some of the Raivavaeans remained on the island. In the 15th century more settlers from Tubuai and Raivavae settled on Rurutu and Rimatara as well. Archaeological work has found sites dated as far back as the 11th century, suggesting a dense population.	Flatlands	Forest	Subtropical	Stone / Fishing / Fiber crops	Austral	Tahitic - Austral
Rimatara	Rimatara is mentioned in oral history as being a populated place, though it likely had a small population.	Flatlands	Forest	Tropical	Fruit	Austral	Tahitic - Austral
Maria Islands	It is unknown whether the Maria islands were permanently inhabited, they are mentioned in oral history as being a place of exile, or a stopover. Due to their small size I have left them as wasteland.	Atoll	Jungle	Tropical	n/a	n/a	n/a
Mangaia	Mangaia has a long history of habitation, with some paleoenvironmental evidence indicating human activity in the southern Cook Islands as far back as between the 5th and 1st centuries BC. The presence of materials not native to the island also hint at its participation within a large trade network, a trade network which seems to have mostly collapsed by the 16th century, which according to oral history corresponds to a time of inter-island conflicts as chiefs tried to assert their authorities beyond their shores. Mangaia is also home to many irrigated fields and cultivation pits that are still used to the modern day. Mangaia would become densely populated leading to inter-tribal conflict as well.	Flatlands	Grassland	Tropical	Fruit	Cook Island Māori	Tahitic - Te reo Ipukarea
Rarotonga	Rarotonga was settled likely around the same time as Mangaia, likely around 200BC, though some archaeologists have posited a settlement as early as 700BC based on some contentious radiocarbon dates. More accepted radiocarbon dates show the island to have been inhabited since at least the 10th century. By the time of discovery there were 3 tribes on the island, divided into dozens of clans, suggesting a dense population.	Hills	Jungle	Tropical	Stone / Fruit	Cook Island Māori	Tahitic - Te reo Ipukarea
Atiu / Nga-pu-toru	The island of Atiu was likely settled in the 10th century, possibly the 9th. The island of Ma'uke was settled in the 10th century. After being unified in the 18th century, the people of Atiu would invade and conquer the nearby islands of Ma'uke and Mitiaro. The small island of Takutea to the north was used for coconut farming also. I have placed all three of this islands since I could find little information on Mitiaro and Ma'uke, and the two would come to be dominated by Atiu in the future. The traditional name of these three islands is Nga-pu-toru.	Flatlands	Forest	Tropical	Fruit	Cook Island Māori	Tahitic - Te reo Ipukarea
Manuae	Manuae is an atoll which was, according to oral tradition, settled from Atiu.	Atoll	Jungle	Tropical	Fruit	Cook Island Māori	Tahitic - Te reo Ipukarea
Aitutaki	Aitutaki is an atoll that was settled in the early 13th to 15th century, as attested by multiple adze heads found on the island originating from Samoa and the Society Islands.	Atoll	Jungle	Tropical	Fishing	Cook Island Māori	Tahitic - Te reo Ipukarea

Group 5: Marquesas & Society Islands

Locations:

Spoiler: Areas

Name	Description	Terrain	Vegetation	Climate	Raw Material	Culture	Language
Hiva 'Oa	The Marquesas islands were one of the first to be settled in eastern Polynesia, being colonised between 100BC and 300AD. Rock shelters in Hiva Oa have been dated to dates from the 2nd century to the 8th century AD.	Hills	Jungle	Tropical	Fruit	Marquesan	Marquesic - Marquesan
Tahuata	Archaeological evidence points to Tahuata being settled as early as the 3rd century AD or as late as the 11th century AD. The people of Tahuata were considered subordinates of the Nuku province of Hiva Oa. Nearby Moho Tani was inhabited as well, though due to its small size and proximity to Tahuata I have included them both in this location.	Mountains	Jungle	Tropical	Fruit	Marquesan	Marquesic - Marquesan
Fatu Iva	Fatu Iva is a large island, and though I could find little archaeological analysis, the island was certainly inhabited as is attested by petroglyphs, stone terraces, and the remains of villages.	Mountains	Jungle	Tropical	Fishing	Marquesan	Marquesic - Marquesan
Ua Pou	Rock shelters in Ua Pou have been dated as far back as the 1st century BC. The island was populous, as shown by many archaeological remains of stone terraces and villages. The people of Ua Pou were often at war with one another, but they would join forces with the tribe of Te I'i on the western side of Nuku Hiva against their enemies on the eastern side.	Mountains	Jungle	Tropical	Fishing	Marquesan	Marquesic - Marquesan
Ua Huka	Archaeological work on Ua Huka suggests it has been settled as far back as the 2nd century AD, or as late as the 11th century AD. Ua Huka is rather unique in that a portion of the island has semi-arid climate and sparse vegetation.	Hills	Forest	Tropical	Fishing	Marquesan	Marquesic - Marquesan
Nuku Hiva	Nuku Hiva was one of the first islands in the Marquesas to be settled, being colonised between 100BC and 300AD. Around the 12th to 14th century there was rapid population growth along with an intensification of agriculture to make up for depleting wild game.	Hills	Jungle	Tropical	Fruit	Marquesan	Marquesic - Marquesan
'Eiao	'Eiao was settled by Marquesans in the 11th century at the latest, and was an important source of basalt stone for large swathes of Polynesia, with tools made from 'Eiao stone being found as far away as the Line Islands over 2,400km away, dated to the 11th to 13th century. 'Eiao is also very unique in that the island consists of a desert plateau.	Plateau	Sparse	Arid	Stone	Marquesan	Marquesic - Marquesan
Mehetia	Mehetia was an island of religious significance, and it seems to have been inhabited as some imported stone tools in the society islands have Mehetian origin. However, due to its small size I have left it as a wasteland.	Hills	Forest	Tropical	n/a	n/a	n/a
Faʻaʻā	Tahiti was first settled between the 6th century BC and the 3rd century AD. The island was divided into territories each ruled by a single clan under a chief, who commanded over sub-chiefs in a feudal government style. It is estimated that the pre-contact population was between 50,000 and 200,000 people. The village of Faʻaʻā was likely established in the 8th century on the north of Tahiti Nui, the larger north-western portion of Tahiti. It would be from this location that the Pomare dynasty would emerge in the 18th century to conquer Tahiti and the nearby islands.	Mountains	Jungle	Tropical	Fruit	Māʼohi	Tahitic - Tahitian
Papeari	The most important clan in pre-contact Tahiti was the Teva clan, which controlled Tahiti Iti and the south of Tahiti Nui. Papeari is said to be the oldest village in Tahiti, placed on the isthmus between Tahiti Nui and Tahiti Iti.	Mountains	Jungle	Tropical	Fruit	Māʼohi	Tahitic - Tahitian
Moʻorea	Moʻorea was likely settled around the 3rd century AD, the archaeological evidence indicates it had already been settled in the 7th to 9th century. It's families were linked to those of Tahiti by marriage and kinship. Prior to the 11th century there was extensive clearing and cultivation of the valleys of Moʻorea, leading to erosion. On and after the 11th century the society on Moʻorea stratified and started building artificial terraces for cultivation and stone houses.	Hills	Jungle	Tropical	Fruit	Māʼohi	Tahitic - Tahitian
Maiʻao	Maiʻao is an inhabited island, though little archaeological work has been carried out on it. This island was historically subordinate to the island of Huahine to the north. However, due to it's small size and lack of archaeological work I have decided to leave it as a wasteland.	Flatlands	Jungle	Tropical	n/a	n/a	n/a
Tetiʻaroa	Tetiʻaroa was a rest and relaxation retreat for the chiefs of northern Tahiti Nui.	Atoll	Jungle	Tropical	Fishing	Māʼohi	Tahitic - Tahitian
Huahine	Huahine was settled from at least the 9th century AD, and it has a large concentration of archaeological remains. Huahine was a kingdom since at least the 17th century, which it remained until being annexed by France in the 19th century.	Flatlands	Jungle	Tropical	Fruit	Māʼohi	Tahitic - Tahitian
Raʻiātea / Havai'i Nui	Raiatea was likely settled about the same time as the rest of the society islands. The Taputaputa Marae on Raʻiatea dates as far back as the 10th century AD, and according to oral history the Tainui and Te Arawa Maori in New Zealand originated from the island of Raiatea. Raiatea may have been called Havai'i Nui in ancient times.	Hills	Jungle	Tropical	Pearls / Fruit	Māʼohi	Tahitic - Tahitian
Tahaʻa / Uporu	Tahaʻa was apparently named Uporu at some point in the past. It would certainly have been settled around the same time as Raʻiātea.	Flatlands	Jungle	Tropical	Pearls	Māʼohi	Tahitic - Tahitian
Pora Pora	Pora Pora (Bora Bora) was settled around the same time as the rest of the society islands, and would be marked by a rivalry between 2 major clans. The remains of over 40 Marae, as well as complex mountain forts hint at a dense and warlike population. This island would give rise to the kingdom of Bora Bora in the 18th century, which would compete with the kingdom of Raʻiātea for military and religious control over the leeward society islands. The nearby atoll of Tupai to the north is included in the same location as I could find little information about it.	Hills	Jungle	Tropical	Fruit	Māʼohi	Tahitic - Tahitian
Maupiti	Maupiti has been inhabited since at least the 9th century AD, and archaeological work has identified over 30 Marae and at least one fort on the island.	Flatlands	Jungle	Tropical	Fishing	Māʼohi	Tahitic - Tahitian
Maupihaʻa	Maupihaʻa has been since pre-contact times, probably around the same time as the rest of the Society Islands. It would come under the control of the Kingdom of Bora Bora in the 18th century.	Atoll	Jungle	Tropical	Fruit	Māʼohi	Tahitic - Tahitian
Manuaʻe	Manuaʻe is the westernmost atoll of the Society Islands. There is currently no evidence that Manuaʻe was inhabited in pre-contact times.	Atoll	Forest	Tropical	Pearls / Fishing	Māʼohi	Tahitic - Tahitian
Motu One	Motu One is a small atoll which was known to the Polynesians, and according to oral history temporarily inhabited. Due to its small size and alleged temporary settlement I have left it as wasteland.	Atoll	Jungle	Tropical	n/a	n/a	n/a

Group 6: Southern Line Islands, Northern Cook Islands, Niue, Palmerston

Locations:

Spoiler: Areas

Name	Description	Terrain	Vegetation	Climate	Raw Material	Culture	Language
Niuē	Niuē was settled as far back as the 1st century AD. Despite Niuē being very decentralised and not having a large population, I believe it should be included due to its strategic location in the middle of Samoa, Tonga, and the Cook Islands.	Flatlands	Jungle	Tropical	Fruit	Niuean	Tongic - Niuean
Palmerston	Palmerston is a small atoll which was uninhabited when discovered by Europeans, however graves were found on the island indicating a pre-contact population.	Atoll	Forest	Tropical	Fishing	Cook Island Māori	Tahitic - Te reo Ipukarea
Tongareva / Penrhyn	Tongareva is an atoll which was likely settled in the 10th century AD. It was one of the most densely inhabited atolls in the region, with a pre-contact population of about 2000 despite its small size.	Atoll	Forest	Tropical	Pearls	Cook Island Māori	Tahitic - Te reo Ipukarea
Manihiki	Manihiki is an atoll which was likely settled in the 10th century AD. The atoll of Rakahanga to the north was inhabited by the same group of people who lived on Manihiki, every few years the entire population would relocate to the other atoll and give the vacant one time to restore, and despite being divided into tribes there is no record of warring. For this reason and their small individual size I have included both these atolls in one location.	Atoll	Forest	Tropical	Pearls / Fruit	Cook Island Māori	Tahitic - Te reo Ipukarea
Te Ulu-o-Te-Watu / Pukapuka	Pukapuka is the westernmost atoll of the northern Cook Islands. It is unusual in that archaeological work has found sites dated as far back as the 3rd century BC, which would place the settlement of this atoll over 1000 years before the rest of the Cook Islands. Pukapuka was a point of connection between western and eastern Polynesia, and its people speak a Samoic language, setting them apart from the Tahitic speaking Cook Islanders. The pre-contact population may have been over 1000 people. The nearby island of Nassau shares a culture and language with Pukapuka and given its small size I have included it in this location.	Atoll	Jungle	Tropical	Fishing	Pukapukan	Samoic - Te Leo Wale
Suwarrow	Suwarrow was an inhabited atoll in prehistoric times, though it was found deserted when discovered by Europeans.	Atoll	Forest	Tropical	Fishing	Cook Island Māori	Tahitic - Te reo Ipukarea
Malden	Malden island is an arid atoll with an enclosed super-saline lagoon, making it fairly unique. While it was uninhabited by the time of discovery, extensive archaeological remains indicate that it was populated in prehistoric times.	Atoll / Wetlands	Grassland	Arid	Fishing	I-Kiribati	Micronesian - Kiribati
Starbuck	Starbuck island is a dry coral island with hyper-saline lagoons on its eastern side. No archaeological remains have been found on this island, but I have still included it because of its unique geography.	Wetlands	Sparse	Arid	Fishing	I-Kiribati	Micronesian - Kiribati
Caroline	Archaeological remains point to this island being known and possibly inhabited by ancient polynesians, yet its unspoilt nature suggests that they may not have settled permanently. The atoll was uninhabited by time of European discovery, and is one of the most unspoilt natural landscapes in the entire world.	Atoll	Jungle	Oceanic	Fishing	I-Kiribati	Micronesian - Kiribati
Flint	Flint is a small island with no evidence of habitation, as such I have left it as a wasteland.	Flatlands	Jungle	Tropical	n/a	n/a	n/a

Final thoughts.

• Faʻaʻā and Nuku Hiva should be centres of trade.
• Faʻaʻā, Papeari, Raʻiātea, and Pora Pora should have SOPs (multiple SOPs per culture are allowed)
• Cook Island Maori and Marquesans should have SOPs also.

Thank you for reading! Next time we'll be covering Vanuatu, New Caledonia, and the islands around New Zealand!

----------------------------------------
References:

• On the Road of the Winds - An Archaeological History of the Pacific Islands before European Contact - Patrick Vinton Kirch
• The prehistory of Rapa Island - Atholl Anderson et al. - link
• Easter Island and East Polynesian Prehistory - Patricia Vargas Casanova - link
• Peva: The archaeology of a valley on Rurutu, Austral Islands, East Polynesia - Robert J Bollt - link
• Human settlement of East Polynesia earlier, incremental, and coincident with prolonged South Pacific drought - David A. Sear et al. - link
• Cook Island artifact geochemistry demonstrates spatial and temporal extent of pre-European interarchipelago voyaging in East Polynesia - Marshall I. Weisler et al. - link
• Marquesan Colonisation Chronologies and Postcolonisation Interaction: Implications for Hawaiian origins and the ‘Marquesan Homeland’ hypothesis - Melinda S. Allen - link
• Eastern Polynesian Burials at Maupiti - Kenneth P. Emory and Yosihiko H. Sinoto - link
• Stone Remains in the Society Islands - Kenneth P. Emory - link
• Islands of Inquiry: Colonisation, seafaring and the archaeology of maritime landscapes (TA29) : Colonisation, seafaring and the archaeology of maritime landscapes (Ch. 6 & 7) - Douglas J. Kennett, Bruce Winterhalder, Tim Thomas - link
• Development of Coral Reefs and Human Settlement: Archaeological Research in the Northern Cook Islands and Rarotonga - Masashi Chikamori - download
• Archaeology of the Pacific equatorial islands - Kenneth P. Emory - link
• The Lagoon at Caroline/Millennium Atoll, Republic of Kiribati: Natural History of a Nearly Pristine Ecosystem - Katie L. Barott et al. - link

 

[Big_birdy]

just found this map of tasmanian tribes as recorded by George Augustus Robinson

Spoiler: Map + group names

1: Leterremairrener
2: Peeberrangner
3: Leenerreretar
4: Leemoonnerkanner/Pinterrairer
5: Parerebeenne
6: Pyemmairrener Pairrener
7: Plangermairreenner
8: Leenethmairrener
9: Plangenmairrerwanener
10: Plairrymerreenner
11: Leenneratteminnener
12: Plangummairrenener
13: Loontitetermairrelehoinner
14: Mayerlower Mairrerner Pairrerner
15: Marwemairrener
16: Peenrymairmener
17: Tareernotemmeter
18: Rolemairre
19: Pyendaymairremener
20: Panneneveernokeer
21: Laremairremener
22: Poticweladedy
23: Pyedarererme
24: Moomairremener
25: Mouheneenner
26: Melukerdee
27: Neunonny
28: Lyluequonny
29: Pangherninghe
30: Lairbrnhurnme
31: Kumtemairrener
32: Pelangver
33: Lueberkoyerrunny
34: Leenowwenne
35: Braylwunyer
36: Braylerme
37: Brayhelukequonne
38: Nareerlukequonne
39: Parloingermairhetohe
40: Panninher
41: Torererpunmairinnerpairener
42: Luggermairrer Nerpairrer
43: Lairmairrener Pairrener
44: Needwonne
45: Ninene
46: Lowreenner
47: Toogee
48: Loomindewitherreoke
49: Nongor
50: Manegin
51: Pannerbukeer
52: Nongineher
53: Waddekinerrokeher
54: Mimemeginer
55: Beelar
56: Pairrekehillerplue
57: Parnillerpanner

ive also added tindales groupings in tasmania as well as Rhys Jones's grouping

Spoiler: tindale groups in tasmania

Spoiler: Rhys Jones's groupings and structure of Tasmanian society

 

[King of Zoot]

So after some research I think that with the current level of granularity the Turrubal province/culture/religion should be renamed to Jagera as the Jagera were more widespread and the Turrubal language is possibly a dialect of Jagera.

 

[gestr]

The Peloponnese/Morea has 26 locations and starts with 5 different countries owning land, and is in between the two biggest Eastern Mediterranean rivals Venice and (eventually) the Ottomans.

Tasmania has 8 locations but is on nearly the end of the map, with no countries owning land in 1337, with colonisers only getting there probably in in the 1600/1700s.

I'm being standoff-ish but seriously what is the obsession with adding more locations? So you can specialise each town on an island at the very edge of the map that as a whole is probably going to have the same population as a singular location in Europe by the end of the game?

There should be consistency across the whole world, no matter how isolated from humans the land is. How do you know I'm not planning to play as a colonial island-nation of Tasmania? Why am I limited by 8 locations in a fertile temperate island nearly the size of Ireland? Why is the clear natural harbor that's right by Hobart in real life not in the game? There are valid problems.

 

[gestr]

I hate this place 1 has X locations while place 2 has Y locations, I think instead of complaining people should just research the area and propose more locations

What is there to research? 2000 people lived there before colonization. Create brand new locations with borders based on geography.

 

[gestr]

I absolutely love Tasmania and want my passion region to be represented properly in the game. Here is the locations map that I created based mostly on geographical features. Should be easy to put different terrain on these locations as well. Tasmania is a truly fertile island that is excellent for humans to settle.

I spent a lot of time researching it so please consider some of these adjustments.

 

[Romancommander95]

This looks good but my main questions about Australia, is shouldn’t there be more raw materials such as gold, iron, copper and coal for the late game , Australia is a major mining country that exports a lot of stuff . Also for religion in Australia shouldn’t it be similar to the one in a paradox game named Europa Universalis IV since they wouldn’t be animist , they more connected to the natural landscape and structure such as a big rock for example or anything that was made during the Dreamtime when world was created. Otherwise I’m no expert on other areas but i do believe that there should be less arid in the eastern part of the state now known as New South Wales, where there’s rivers today there’s lots of farmland , it gets hot and dry however it’s no desert but you wouldn’t have to shrink the arid bit too much. Is arid considered impassable terrain or is it just heavy attrition ?

 

[korandder]

The Arid and Cold Arid climate types in PC seem to include both the desert (BWh and BWk) and semi-arid (BSh and BSk) Köppen climate types. You do see crops grown today in semi-arid climate regions in Australia (and elsewhere in the world).

 

[korandder]

I absolutely love Tasmania and want my passion region to be represented properly in the game. Here is the locations map that I created based mostly on geographical features. Should be easy to put different terrain on these locations as well. Tasmania is a truly fertile island that is excellent for humans to settle.

View attachment 1223441View attachment 1223442View attachment 1223444View attachment 1223445
View attachment 1223447I spent a lot of time researching it so please consider some of these adjustments.

On the topic of vegetation, a bunch of the west coast of Tasmania is grassland or moorland, not forest. Also, while there are and were significant rain forests in Tasmania, my understanding is that to claim all of western Tasmania is rain forest is likely an overstatement.

On natural harbours, your Dunally location should be one (Port Arthur and Norfolk Bay). After a bit of reading I am starting to question whether Macquarie Harbour should be considered a good natural harbour given how challenging the entrance is - the narrow and shallow channel was dubbed Hells Gates. On the north coast one place that has not been mentioned is Devonport which today is the busiest port in Tasmania.

 

[gestr]

On the topic of vegetation, a bunch of the west coast of Tasmania is grassland or moorland, not forest. Also, while there are and were significant rain forests in Tasmania, my understanding is that to claim all of western Tasmania is rain forest is likely an overstatement.

On natural harbours, your Dunally location should be one (Port Arthur and Norfolk Bay). After a bit of reading I am starting to question whether Macquarie Harbour should be considered a good natural harbour given how challenging the entrance is - the narrow and shallow channel was dubbed Hells Gates. On the north coast one place that has not been mentioned is Devonport which today is the busiest port in Tasmania.

Honestly Tassie is filled with so many harbours that it's hard not to paint every location purple. But I would say the most important and accessible ones (talking about an uncolonised empty land) would be Hobart and Georgetown locations.

West Tassie gets A LOT of rain. It's not actually a true jungle, it should be a temperate rainforest, but I'm not sure if that vegetation is in the game. I believe the barren location in the middle and the other ones being woods is accurate for the time. Uncleared land and all.

 

[vonFischmarkt]

Bit disappointed about lack of population. I've been doing some research and been in contact with some academics in the field of the Maori settlement of New Zealand, what the population numbers might be like across different areas and was looking forward to see if your maps needed critiquing.

The issue is that the Maori got to the island at about this time. We aren’t talking about the Maori of 1780

 

[Skash]

Hello, and welcome to another Friday devoted to map worship! You may remember me, Pavía, from previous Tinto Maps, as @Roger Corominas has been dutifully taking care of the last 6 dev diaries. Now he’s focusing on some other tasks, and I’ll be in charge of the last 4, as it’s planned that the war Tinto Maps will be over by Christmas. This doesn’t mean that we will be done with the maps of Project Caesar, though - we will continue posting Tinto Maps Feedback posts in the next few months. And the next one will be a very much anticipated one - the Balkans, next week! But let’s focus now on today’s region: Oceania!

Countries
View attachment 1219913
A bit different map today, as there are no regular countries in the entire region… All of them are Societies of Pops! Also, down to the right, that is not ‘Linear Atlantis’, but our ‘3D Material Testing Island’, where our (great) 3D artists test how the different combinations of terrains look in-game.

It may be relevant to repeat our guidelines for how to categorize countries and societies, by the way:


Societies of Pops

View attachment 1219914
View attachment 1219915
View attachment 1219916
There are a few Societies of Pops in Oceania, in three main hubs: Hawaii, Fiji-Samoa-Tonga, and New Zealand. We’d be interested in listening to your feedback on this matter, nonetheless.

Locations

Spoiler: Detailed Locations Maps

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Plenty of different maps today, to be able to show as many different regions as possible. This is very highly WIP, and some of the islands may end up dying because of their size and being unimportant. By the way, you may notice that some of the islands are weirdly rounded up - that’s because they have a different type of terrain, ‘Atoll’, which is the last one that we were able to add to the game in due time during the development process.

Provinces
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Areas
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Terrain
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Now you may fully notice the purpose of Terrain Testing Island!

Development
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Not a very developed region in 1337…

Natural Harbors
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There are some very good natural harbors in the region, including a very infamous one in O’ahu…

Cultures
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Tons of different cultures today!

Languages
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Papua is not the most homogeneous place in the world, language-related…

Religions
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As mentioned last week, we’ve split Animism into several ‘cultural confessions’, which we want now to recombine into broader families; so, again, any suggestions are welcome!

Raw Materials

Spoiler: Detailed Raw Materials Maps

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Resources are, in general terms, quite basic, food-oriented ones; although Australia is more varied, obviously, and there are some areas very rich in Pearls.

Markets
View attachment 1219954
Ternate is the main market of the western part of the region, although you may notice that there’s very little access in most of the locations.

Population
There are some issues with the Population distribution map of the region this week, but I’m letting you know that the total population is 1.885M.

And that is all for today! If you want a more detailed map of a given area, just let me know, as I’m aware that the scale of the region shown doesn’t fit well with

Hello, and welcome to another Friday devoted to map worship! You may remember me, Pavía, from previous Tinto Maps, as @Roger Corominas has been dutifully taking care of the last 6 dev diaries. Now he’s focusing on some other tasks, and I’ll be in charge of the last 4, as it’s planned that the war Tinto Maps will be over by Christmas. This doesn’t mean that we will be done with the maps of Project Caesar, though - we will continue posting Tinto Maps Feedback posts in the next few months. And the next one will be a very much anticipated one - the Balkans, next week! But let’s focus now on today’s region: Oceania!

Countries
View attachment 1219913
A bit different map today, as there are no regular countries in the entire region… All of them are Societies of Pops! Also, down to the right, that is not ‘Linear Atlantis’, but our ‘3D Material Testing Island’, where our (great) 3D artists test how the different combinations of terrains look in-game.

It may be relevant to repeat our guidelines for how to categorize countries and societies, by the way:


Societies of Pops

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There are a few Societies of Pops in Oceania, in three main hubs: Hawaii, Fiji-Samoa-Tonga, and New Zealand. We’d be interested in listening to your feedback on this matter, nonetheless.

Locations

Spoiler: Detailed Locations Maps

View attachment 1219917
View attachment 1219918
View attachment 1219919
View attachment 1219920
View attachment 1219922
View attachment 1219923
View attachment 1219924
View attachment 1219925
View attachment 1219926

Plenty of different maps today, to be able to show as many different regions as possible. This is very highly WIP, and some of the islands may end up dying because of their size and being unimportant. By the way, you may notice that some of the islands are weirdly rounded up - that’s because they have a different type of terrain, ‘Atoll’, which is the last one that we were able to add to the game in due time during the development process.

Provinces
View attachment 1219927
View attachment 1219928
View attachment 1219929

Areas
View attachment 1219930

Terrain
View attachment 1219931
View attachment 1219932
View attachment 1219933
Now you may fully notice the purpose of Terrain Testing Island!

Development
View attachment 1219935
Not a very developed region in 1337…

Natural Harbors
View attachment 1219936
View attachment 1219937
There are some very good natural harbors in the region, including a very infamous one in O’ahu…

Cultures
View attachment 1219938
View attachment 1219939
View attachment 1219940
View attachment 1219941
Tons of different cultures today!

Languages
View attachment 1219942
View attachment 1219943
Papua is not the most homogeneous place in the world, language-related…

Religions
View attachment 1219944
As mentioned last week, we’ve split Animism into several ‘cultural confessions’, which we want now to recombine into broader families; so, again, any suggestions are welcome!

Raw Materials

Spoiler: Detailed Raw Materials Maps

View attachment 1219946
View attachment 1219948
View attachment 1219949
View attachment 1219950
View attachment 1219951
View attachment 1219952

Resources are, in general terms, quite basic, food-oriented ones; although Australia is more varied, obviously, and there are some areas very rich in Pearls.

Markets
View attachment 1219954
Ternate is the main market of the western part of the region, although you may notice that there’s very little access in most of the locations.

Population
There are some issues with the Population distribution map of the region this week, but I’m letting you know that the total population is 1.885M.

And that is all for today! If you want a more detailed map of a given area, just let me know, as I’m aware that the scale of the region shown doesn’t fit well with the usual format of Tinto Maps.

Next week we will take a look at the last continent remaining, starting with the region of North America. See you!

Hey! Too be completely honest this is the worst addition to Tinto maps I’ve seen. I love the work you’ve been doing but I cannot accurately put into words my disappointment that a total of zero aboriginal societies have been included as SoPs. Is there reasoning behind this? Maybe I am a bit biased in this regard due to still being upset about the outright racism in EU4 and the copy and paste effort put into my home country. Aboriginal countries even had access to the ‘pax Americana’ button for federations. As an Australian that has learnt about the more than 40 000 year old cultures and societies in this wonderful continent my immediate feelings are all very bad after reading this tinto maps. Please do much much much better than the EU4 team managed to. I am sure you have plenty of reasons for this exclusion and would be very interested in reading them. Thank you for all the great work you have been putting into this game and I am sorry for this a bit emotional reaction.

 

[Big_birdy]

@Pavía could we get a map of Australia's locations similar to this

but zoomed in more so Papua is excluded

 

[eduhum]

Australian Aboriginals had very long oral poems that described ways and trade routes crossing the island continent. There should be some representation of that, with a few sparse interior provinces, in oasis and also on the Uluru rock, which are today not appearing.

 

[eleevan]

Other people have covered the feelings regarding Oceania pretty well - we love that you're putting in more detail, but also that means the half-baked attempt actually comes across as a lot worse.

Some small suggestions on easy New Zealand flavour which I havent seen suggested yet:

1. Maori language should be called Te Reo Māori
2. A little anachronistic in names, but you could do Te Reo Raki for the North Island dialect, and Te Reo Tonga for the now extinct South Island dialect which existed at the time.
3. Maori religion should be called Tikanga
4. Tikanga icon should be a hei matau, a jade curled fish hook
5. The clergy for Maori/Tikanga should be called Tohunga
6. The burghers for Maori/Tikanga should be called Kaihoko
7. The nobles for Maori/Tikanga should be called Rangatira
8. Change the food goods to more wild game (moa), more fish, and crucially, whaling (I think that exists in this game right right?) which was the entire reason that the British went to NZ in the first place.
9. I can't tell from the maps, but make sure the Moriori are on Rēkohu/Chatham Islands

 

[SirRedDogOfSmeg]

Australia really needs to have more provinces for its size, particularly on Western and Eastern parts of Australia. Their were many Aboriginal tribes that lived in the central parts of Australia so having it as a wasteland doesn't sit right with me. Maybe you can also connect the west/east/north/south parts of Australia with those uncolonizable pathways so you don't have to walk all around the coast.

 

[Edd212]

I do think the Gunditjmara should be a SOP. The Gunditjmara had a sedentary population which relied primarily on eel aquaculture. If you are unware of it, I suggest looking into the Budj Bim Cultural Landscape. In short, it's hundreds of stone walled ponds and weirs stretched over 30km, connected by banked channels dug out of the earth. It started as simple fish traps, and eventually developed into an enormous complex of fully fledged eel farms. The site also contains numerous stone foundations of what we assume were houses.

 

[AntarcticRanger]

Why is all of Tasmania jungle? Both in that Tasmania is not completely forested and also in that every. Single. Other. Temperate. Rainforest. Is. Oceanic. Forest. With the exception of the Caspian rainforests, which are Mediterranean forests for some reason. I would prefer if temperate rainforests the world over could be jungles, but if not then could you at least be consistent?

 

[Diddlypoop]

There should definitely be an organized state in Tonga and I'm not sure why there isn't. The expansionism of the Tongan Empire was reaching its peak during this period.