Tinto Maps #27 - 22nd of November 2024 - Oceania

[Fat_Mr_Fox]

The NZ wild game represents the moa. They were essential to the Maori diet in 1337.

Thank you for explaining the reasoning. Will it change to another resource after it goes extinct?

 

[Cinnamon Ryce]

Might I suggest adding a couple of societies to Australia and New Guinea? All of my suggestions had some semblance of social organisation, diplomacy, and also trade. A couple of tags could help to add a bit more life to the region.

In Australia, the Kulin nation was probably the closest thing to a functioning state, being a federation, and being organised enough to sign the Melbourne treaty of 1835. The Gamilaraay are also significant for being a decently sized semi-agricultural society. On the other hand, the Yolngu are arguably the most fascinating due to their diplomatic/cultural ties with Indonesian Muslim merchants, and their significance in the sea cucumber trade.

In westmost New Guinea, a couple of societies could be added, to represent the many local kingdoms that paid tribute to the Moluccans and converted to Islam. The Raja Ampat island kingdoms of Misool, Salawati, Waigama and Waigeo adopted Islam as early as the 15th century, before the height of Moluccan influence in New Guinea. On the mainland, Kaimana is one instance of a kingdom that even has some named rulers around the start date.

I would avoid adding too many tags to the area, but a small handful could definitely help to make diplomacy, colonisation and trade more dynamic and historical.

 

[sprites]

I can't wait to set up a nice colony there

 

[ArnaudP]

I think that the Reddit map-makers will be pleased, yes. And there's even a new continent appearing there!:
View attachment 1219986

half the map seems to be different shades of yellow

 

[titan.bevel]

What about having a cup of tinto wine, preferably Ribera del Duero, while taking a look at historical maps?

You know an awful number of people roaming these forum would gladly take this offer.

 

[guinea prince]

 

[ArVass]

Alright so "no countries" is just plain and simple, flat-out wrong.
The Hawai'ian islands had social organizations of regular countries, we even know the name of most of these islands ali'i nui.

The Tu'i Tonga empire was definitely a country with a Tu'i Tonga, vassal states, and in general a state organization.
Same for Samoa, one that just recently gained its independence from Tonga.

Please do not erase them ((

 

[Varus90]

Oh, dear. Well, if we got through the Balkans civilly enough, we can get through the "Paradox claiming that North and South America are one continent" thing without a problem, I'm sure!

/s, obviously.

 

[matfer13]

What about having a cup of tinto wine, preferably Ribera del Duero, while taking a look at historical maps?

Bold of you to assume I don't do that already

 

[Big_birdy]

one more map because i cant sleep

Spoiler: aboriginal grain belt

 

[CapnMunch]

Without the ability to play Societies of Pops, does that mean there will be no way to enjoy a Polynesian campaign?

 

[AHumpierRogue]

Hope SoPs get added to Australia otherwise all the different religions and cultures are slightly pointless

I feel like if you made some aboriginal australian SoP's it'd essentially mean every single tile across the world would have to have SoP's and there'd be no "horizontal societies".

 

[Desseabar]

I guess the starting date is a bit late, but do we get any representation of Polynesian migration? I guess Hawaii and most of the islands were settled by 1300, but it might be nice to see a gradual spread for some areas (e.g., crossing to Chile).

 

[ArVass]

It may be relevant to repeat our guidelines for how to categorize countries and societies, by the way:

• Settled Countries (State Societies)
  • Organized through States, which implies a public power holding:
    • Monopoly of violence
    • Tax collection
    • Public works
    • Writing/record-keeping systems

- monopoly of violence: check (eg. an ali'i nui was "responsible for the sacred kapu")
- tax collection: check (eg. ʻInasi)
- public works: check (eg. heiaus and maraes)
- record-keeping: check (polynesian societies have notoriously complex oral genealogies, and as we have discussed before oral tradition counts)

Why would Tonga, Samoa and the Hawaiian islands NOT be settled countries?

 

[tanner918]

We have plenty of ideas, but the feasibility of them is very low at this stage, to be brutally honest. We'll confirm it in due time, but we prefer to be honest with the community, and not create non-realistic expectations.

If, at release, SoPs aren't playable, would that be hard-carded, or is it blocked through script and modders could easily make them playable by just adjusting their files? Because if so, once the community has had some time to play the game, allowing people to try out and modify SoPs might result in someone finding a good way to have them be handled and officially playable.

 

[ScienceNinja7]

It doesn't really affect gameplay, but for consistency and accuracy Pama-Nyungan should probably be elevated to language family and split into a few "languages." Pama-Nyungan is as old and diverse a grouping as Indo-European or Sino-Tibetan, and if Indonesia, New Guinea, and the rest of Australia (even Tasmania!) are given so many different languages, then there's no reason not to extend that treatment to Pama-Nyungan.

 

[Bawhoppen]

I am incredibly sad that Hawaiians and Tonga are not true settled countries. They seem to fit the bit as being proto-states, if not actual states.

Either way though, I think that top focus should be on making society of pops playable. I really want to be able to play in this region.
If that is not feasible, perhaps then could you at least ease back the criteria on what counts as an SOP versus settled state? To make it so that most structured sedentary chiefdoms count as settled countries, just with very weak tech and downsides? It would be a good idea I think for gameplay value.

 

[eddin2]

Great job, only one question, does south Island of New Zealand (don't recall the name) really should have so much wasteland?

I know it's very remote, and sparsely populated even today, but, it's not because of unpleasantness of the land and climate, at least to my knowledge.

 

[Kn19hte]

Very surprised to see how few provinces Eastern Australia (NSW) has compared to the rest of the continent (looking at the south-west and north in particular).

 

[Pescavelho]

I think you can somewhat safely merge all Polynesian and Australian indigenous religions into one each, perhaps with a few culture-locked mechanics. Correct me if I'm wrong, but "the Dreaming" is rather ubiquitous across Australia (maybe not Tasmania), while Polynesian religions all have a common source, similar to Indo-European religions but more similar due to not having had enough time to diverge.

Speaking of religions, I asked this in the culture thread, but didn't get an answer yet: Are there plans for religions being able to be in multiple groups, like cultures are?