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Tinto Maps #4 - 31th of May 2024 - Poland, Ruthenia, Baltic

Hello everyone, and welcome to the fourth Tinto Maps! The feedback that we've received so far has been great, and there will be news soon regarding the map fixes that we've already done.

This week we are showing you Poland, Lithuania, Ruthenia, and the Baltic region. Let’s check it with no further ado:

Countries
Countries.jpg

A bigger picture of what’s going on in this region today, as we hadn’t shown it entirely before. To the west, the Kingdom of Poland is ruled by Casimir III of the House of Piast. It is not a completely unified kingdom, as there are several powerful vassals under him, most of them also Piasts themselves.

To the east, the Duchy of Lithuania is ruled by Gediminas, who has greatly expanded the influence of the country into Russian lands (side note: Gediminas entitled himself in his diplomatic correspondence ‘king’, but was considered by the Pope ‘king or duke’, and the title of Grand Duke wouldn’t be formally adopted until later [most likely replicating the Russian title ‘Grand Prince’]. That’s why Lithuania starts as a Duchy, although it will have an event that would make it possible to adopt the dynamic country name of ‘Grand Duchy’).

To the south, the principalities of Kyiv and Galicia-Volhynia have recently fallen under foreign influence, the first ruled by Theodor, brother of Gediminas of Lithuania; and the second by Yuri II, also from the Piast dynasty.

To the north, the Teutonic and Livonian Orders, which conquered the lands of Prussia and Livonia a century ago, are at war against Poland and Lithuania, after a long-established rivalry.

Also, a side note: we will talk about Moldavia in the Tinto Maps devoted to the Carpathian region, as it’s currently in a ‘placeholder’ spot.


Diplomacy.jpg

A new map mode, the Diplomatic one! The game starts with an ongoing war between Poland, Lithuania, and their respective vassals, on one side, and the Teutonic and Livonian Orders, and Bohemia and its vassals, on the other.

Locations
Locations.jpg

Here you have the locations of Poland, Lithuania, Ruthenia, and the Baltic region. Some issues that have already been reported by our Polish coworkers are the inconsistencies in the location naming in Polish (we’ll use proper Polish letters more thoroughly), and we’ve also started to review both the Polish and Baltic locations based on the early feedback you gave us. Oh, also, the Vistula and Curonian Lagoons missing is a bug, we’ll properly re-add them while doing the map review.

Provinces
Province.jpg

Any suggestions for provincial naming are pretty welcome, as in the last DD!

Terrain
Climate.jpg

Topography.jpg

Vegetation.jpg


Cultures
Cultures.jpg

The Baltic lands have an interesting mix of different cultures. ‘Western Baltic’ culture represents the people speaking a West Baltic language (Old Prussians, Yotvingians, Curonians, etc.), while ‘Prussian’ is the culture of the German settlers of that area; on that style, we have a ‘Baltic German’ culture in the lands of Livonia and Estonia that also got settled by German-speaking people. The divide between Polish, Ruthenian, and Aukstaitian might be too deep, so we will most likely add a bit more mixed situation in the borders between these cultures.

Religions
Religions.jpg

A region with a more interesting religious setup! Apart from the Catholic-Orthodox divide, you can also see the Romuva religion, which was a hot topic in 1337 (shall the Dukes of Lithuania convert to Catholicism, or stay Pagan?). Red stripes to the north are other Animist populations. Also, disregard the Sunni region to the southeast, as we have to review all the pops of the Pontic Steppes, as well.

Raw Goods
Raw Goods.jpg

From the distribution of the materials, maybe a couple of things might catch your eye. The first is that there’s an Amber good present on the shores of the Baltic Sea. The second is that the Tatra Mountains, in Slovakia, have a bunch of precious metals, which makes them a very interesting area to exploit and develop.

Population
Pops.jpg

Pops 2.png

The population of the region is divided into country and location views. Two notes: The total population of Estonia is not 711K people, that’s the total for its owner, Denmark. Second, we’ve read your feedback regarding the population map mode, and we’ll take a look at how to improve the visualization of the data, making it better for you.

EDIT: Markets
Markets.jpg

And that’s all for today! The region that we'll show next week is Italy! Cheers!
 
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Will Province name discussions have its own Thread or should it be posted on the Tinto Maps thread?
In this thread, which we review each week to later implement the feedback.
 
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At least three, I hope. They said they're going to do all of Europe first, so it'll definitely be a while. No idea which "subcontinent" is next, though.

Probably Asia (and/or North Africa), maybe towards India via Middle East.

For Europe after Italy next week there's probably British Isles, Scandinavia, Russian region, Germany, Hungary/Bohemia/Carpathians, Balkans & Tatar steppes/Crimea (and/or Caucascus?) left, so probably like 2 months or end of august considering there'll be a holiday period too.
 
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I have a question a few weeks ago when we saw Iberia, more particularly Zaragoza/Saraqusta, will we have dynamic location names for all countries in this game? Obviously Zaragoza will have a particular name if it is controlled by France/Al-Andalus/Spain/England, but my question is more focused on whether, for example, you could even invent a name for Paris in Aztec/Chinese/Indian or create a random naming system for provinces that are not in the area of historical influence of a culture. In other games that have nothing to do with Project Caesar, such as EU4, there are mods that do this job and I would like you to think about this possibility, even if not at the release of the game.
 
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When it comes to Przemyśl, Lesko, Sanok - it definitely should be hills. I spent a lot of time hiking there, so I know it ;)

I'm also not convinced it should be catholic. I don't have any data for 1337 but Sanok/Lesko regions were mostly orthodox (grecocatholic) up to first decades of XX century. Przemyśl region was divided with city itself being mostly Polish/Jewish with orthodox minority, villages close to it were mostly orthodox/Ruthenian but villages a bit farther from it mostly catholic/Polish. When it comes to Sanok/Lesko there were also Vlachs there, slowly being settled there by Polish rulers at that time because the land (hills+forests) wasn't optimal for farming so villages under "Vlach law" were founded there for Vlach shepherds. They should be present there as minority, but unfortunately I can't give you any numbers.

I also think Sanok/Lesko should produce salt. There is a mountain range located there called "Góry Słonne" which can be translated as "Salty mountains". It was a local center of salt production since medieval times (up to Austria-Hungary but even now the water there is still salty) with village names derived from "salt" like "Tyrawa Solna".
 
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As for Poland, I would definitely change a few names. I didn't look at all of them, but for sure instead of Zakopane, there should be Nowy Targ. At that time there was no Zakopane, and even later it was an ordinary mountain village. Similarly, over Lublin - Lubartów. It was founded in the 16th century - nearby Kamionka would be more appropriate (founded 100 years earlier - although not in the 14th century). This region in general is difficult when it comes to old cities.And I also think that Busko-Zdrój is better simply named Busko - which was signed that way even on an 18th century Austrian map.
 
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If they do North+NWest, East+NEast and South it should be possible.
Yeah, that's what I was thinking. In EUIV there are five regions in India, but I'm assuming they'll combine the Deccan + Coromandel and Western India + most of Hindustan? Not sure, though.
 
Suggestions for provincial naming (Czechia and Moravia):
Olomoucko --> Haná
Posázavsko --> Posázaví
Hradišstko --> Slovácko (more disputable since your Hardišstko contains Valašsko as well)

I admit that those regions has borders not exactly the same as provinces in your map, but there is some overlap... and it would add a small good vibe to Czech players.
 
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Provinces
View attachment 1141101
Any suggestions for provincial naming are pretty welcome, as in the last DD!
I will allow myself a bit of suggestion here, now, I do not entirely know what sources would be needed here, but:
If I see correctly, then both of locations in Tarnow province are producing salt, there was a lot of salt indeed made in the area, from mines in Wieliczka and Bochnia. Now, Wieliczka was to my knowledge bigger of a mine and a city. Even if Bochnia started it's operations much earlier, and even had city rights given to it before Krakow did. However, Wieliczka enjoyed much closer physical distance to Krakow, which lead to Bochnia being less important after Wieliczka started it's operations. (1290 Wieliczka received it's own city rights.) and as such, I'd say the province probably should be named Wieliczka, with borders being somewhat adjusted to make Bochnia location include the Bochnia city proper. Tarnow itself meanwhile was not as big as Bochnia was at the EU5 Project Cesar start date. According to the sources I have, Bochnia received Magedburg City rights in year 1253, whist Tarnow got Magdeburg city rights in year 1330. So unless the location of Tarnow would get map and name adjustment, the good should be changed to something else like livestock

So, TL : DR

Salt should be removed from Tarnów location unless Tarnów would be to gain some territory from Wieliczka (getting Bochnia in it's borders instead of Wieliczka having both Wieliczka itself and Bochnia in same location).
Rename Tarnow province to Wieliczka

Sources:
Now, arguably this is a bit of a pain, because the sources that I have for this are entirely in Polish, and are not too easy to access in their physical form, but here they come:
Library of the Czartoryski family in Krakow - Orginal location document of the city of Tarnów - Has the date of Tarnow receiving Magdeburg city rights in it)
Copied location document of the city of Bochnia in the State Archives in Bochnia (volume 66 of the Old Polish files, pp. 132 - 137). Also included in the Krakow Voivodeship lustration book from 1569. With book in the Central Archives of Historical Records in Warsaw. - Date of Bochnia receiving Magdeburg city rights
Book of Kazimierz Pająk named Wieliczka – an old mining town. published in Kraków by Wydawnictwo Literackie in 1968. - Date of Wieliczka receiving Dutch/Flemish city rights. And a lot of my knowledge about the area.

More can be added here, like the fact that Wieliczka had a sizeable German minority (mostly employed in mining) to a degree that for some period of time local lingua franca was German instead of Latin, only after a rebellion in 1311 when a German mayor of the town Gerlach von Kulpen joined the rebels and they lost did the push to unify local Little Polish territory in a more homogenous manner resulted in Latin becoming more spoken then German in the area, but this is a sort of detail that I don't even expect to be implemented.

Edit 1 - Thanks to @AlekSzczepanik for spotting my earlier mistake with not spotting that Bochnia was a part of Wieliczka location in the game map here.
 
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Isnt Ruthenian culture is too big and unified? Also, I found that decentralized poland having Polish culture strange considering French cultures were a lot of because of its decentralization
I feel like some of these cultures definitely need to be broken up too.
 
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