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Tinto Maps #6 - 14th of June 2024 - Great Britain & Ireland

Hello everyone. @Pavía and the rest of the Content Design team are busy working on the feedback for the previous Tinto Maps, so I'm standing in for this week.

I'm @SaintDaveUK, some of you might have seen me here and there on the forums, but the long story short is that I work on a very secret game whose name I am contractually obligated to redact. That's right, it's ███████ ██████!

This week you get a double-whammy, mostly because it’s really hard to show Britain on its own on a screenshot. Partly to side-step the “British Isles” naming controversy, but mainly because the gameplay of them both is so different, this part of Europa is divided into 2 distinct regions: Great Britain and Ireland.

Climate​

The mild Oceanic climate (Köppen Cfb) dominates the isles. Where it cools towards the inland Pennines and the Scottish Highlands (Köppen Cfc), we represent it with the wintry and dreich Continental climate.

climate.jpg




Topography​

The isles are dominated by green and pleasant flatlands and low rolling hills, the peripheries punctuated by rocky mountains and craggy highlands.

We would like to add some more impassable locations in northern England and the Scottish borders to make manoeuvres a little more interesting and strategic, but would like suggestions from people more familiar with the Pennines.

[Edit: 16 June added the missing map]

topography.JPG


Vegetation​

The great moors, bogs, and fens are represented by Sparse vegetation, meanwhile much of the land is still wooded.

vegetation.jpg




Raw Materials​

The raw goods situation aims to reflect the economic reality of medieval Britain. Shepherding was common on every corner of the islands, a lot of the wool produced was sold to the industrial hub of the Low Countries to be manufactured into cloth, which was in turn sold back to British markets.

The further north-west we go, the less fertile the terrain, and as such the greater reliance on pastoral farming such as livestock over wheat. The western hills and valleys also expose a greater number of mineral delights, including the historic stannary mines of Devon and Cornwall.

raw_materials.jpg




Markets​

As you can see the two starting markets are London and Dublin. Aside from London we could have chosen almost any town, from Aberdeen to Bristol. We chose Dublin as it was the main trade centre in Ireland, and also because it handsomely splits the isles to the East and West of the Pennines, demonstrating the impact that terrain can have on dynamic Market attraction.

They are both shades of red because they are coloured after the market centre’s top overlord country – market control is a viable playstyle and we like to think of it as a form of map painting for countries not focused on traditional conquest routes.

market.jpg




Culture​

We have decided to go with a monolithic English culture. We could have forced the introduction of a second Northumbrian or even third Mercian culture, but typically they were not really considered separate peoples. The English, though diverse in origin and with a variety of dialects, had already begun to coalesce in the face of the Viking invasions hundreds of years before.

Scotland, conversely, is a real porridge of cultures. The Lowland Scots (who speak a dialect of Northumbrian English that later develops into the Scots language) dominate their kingdom from their wealthy burghs, and are gradually encroaching onto the pastoral lands of the Gaelic Highlanders. The Norse-Gaelic clansmen watch from the Western Isles, with some old settlements remaining around Galloway. The far north, ironically called Sutherland, retains some Norse presence.

Wales, conquered for around a century by this point, plays host to English burghers looking to make a few quid, as well as the descendants of Norman adventurer knights in the marcher lordships, but is still majority Welsh-speaking from Anglesey to Cardiff.

The Anglo-Irish (representing the spectrum from Cambro-Norman knights to the so-called ‘Old English’ settlers) live in great numbers in the south-eastern trading towns from Dublin to Cork, as well as in smaller numbers in frontier outposts.

The cosmopolitan towns across the isles are also home to people from elsewhere in Europe, most notably Flemish weavers from the Low Countries, though their numbers are too small to impact the mapmode.

The Norman ███████ dominates as the ██████████████ for both of the kingdoms and their subjects. The conquest of 1066 is no longer fresh, but the continuing bonds between the aristocratic classes of England, Scotland, and France have kept the French language alive and strong.

culture.jpg






Religion​

I decided that it's not even worth taking a screenshot of the Religion map mode. There are tiny minorities of Jewish people in some Scottish and Irish towns (they had been expelled from England), but they are so small in number they don't even register on the map mode

Other than that, it's all Catholic. But not for long.

> John Wycliffe has entered the chat.


Areas​

Based on the 4 provinces of Ireland (sorry Meath) and splitting England roughly into the larger Anglo-Saxon earldoms which have some similarity with the modern Regions (sorry Yorkshire).

areas.jpg





Provinces​

We have fixed the colours of the Provinces mapmode so you can see the individual provinces a bit more clearly. These are largely based on the historic counties, which have remained fairly constant throughout history, while merging some of those that are too small.

We’ve almost certainly offended someone.

The ancient Scottish shires are pretty messy and difficult to coalesce into neat provinces, so any suggestions for better arrangement there would be very welcome.

provinces.jpg




Locations​


You might notice that the locations in Ireland are varyingly written in both English and in Irish. This is because we have the new system up-and-running where we can name Locations by the primary culture of the country they are owned by.

This means that for example London might be called Londres if it was ruled by a Catalan country. It’s currently a WIP feature and we might add more elements, such as a game setting to base the name on dominant culture of the location instead, or to just use default (English) names.

locations.jpg




Government Types​

As with most of Europe, most of the countries are under some monarchy or another, but the Irish tuathas begin with the Tribe government type. This, among other mechanics such as [redacted] helps to give them a very unique playing style in Europe.

government.jpg


Countries​

England

England of course stands as the dominant kingdom in the isles. Despite having a lot of power resting on the barons, the country is fairly unitary even at this point, with very little practical separation between the crown’s power in somewhere like Kent versus Yorkshire. However there are notable exceptions.

The powerful Burgesses estate in the City of London enjoys ancient freedoms from royal power, while the king peers in from the Crown’s seat of power in neighbouring Westminster.

The County Palatine of Durham is not represented by a country, but buildings that give the Clergy Estate a huge amount of power in the locations it is present in. This also ties into political gameplay as a ██████████ ██████.

The newly created Duchy of Cornwall—the only duchy in England at the time—would also not be represented well by the Cornwall country, being a disparate set of manorial holdings that are ironically mostly in Devon. Cornwall of course exists as a releasable country though.

The Isle of Man is a little less certain. For now we have it as a subject of England. On paper it was a ‘kingdom’ awarded to William Montagu, the king’s favourite, however we aren’t sure if he actually wielded any real power on the isle. It changed hands between England and Scotland numerous times in this period, but in practice it appears to have been governed by a local council of barons. Any more details on exactly what was going on here in this period would be greatly appreciated.

These decisions have been made because as England heaves itself out of the feudal system, we thought it would be best if the small-fry inward-looking internal politicking is handled through the Estates and [redacted] systems, and then the diplomacy tracks are freed up for the English player to behave more outwardly against other major countries.

Wales

Though subjugated by conquest, Wales was not formally annexed into the Kingdom of England until the mid 1500s. As such the principality begins as a Dominion subject under England.

Those familiar with Welsh history will note that historically the Principality of Wales didn’t extend much beyond the old kingdom of Gywnedd. Much of the country to the southeast was in fact ruled by marcher lords, which we represent with a powerful Nobility estate in the valleys and beyond.

There is an alternative vision of Wales that I would like to gauge opinion on, and that is expanding it to include the Earldom of Chester and the marches on the English side of the modern border. If you are an Englishman familiar with modern borders this might look alarming, but these lands were also constitutionally ambiguous parts of the “Welsh Marches” until the 1500s. This will hand over to the Wales player the full responsibility of dealing with the marcher lords, allowing England to focus on bigger picture issues like beating France.

Ireland

Ireland is going through a moment of change. English royal power is centred on the Lordship of the Pale, the king’s Dominion ruling out of Dublin Castle. However, it struggles to keep a grasp on the rebellious Hiberno-Norman earls scattered around the island - some of whom remain as vassals, some of whom have managed to slip free of royal control.

The Tanistry system of succession endemic to the Gaelic Irish has its advantages, but it can also lead to chaotic feuds between rival branches. The so-called Burke Civil War has fractured the powerful Earldom of Ulster into rival Burke cousins who jealously feud over their shrinking lordships in Connaught. Native Irish princes of the north have reconquered most of their own lands from the de Burghs, but there are also two rival O’Neill cousins who style themselves King of Tyrone either side of the River Bann.

The feuding Irish lack a unifying figure, but anyone powerful enough could theoretically claim the title of High King. The former provincial kingdoms, such as Meath and Connacht, enjoy the elevated rank of Duchy, giving them a slight edge in the High Kingship selection.

Scotland

The chancer Edward Balliol continues his attempt for the Scottish throne, with England’s tacit permission. It’s hard to determine the exact lands held by Balliol in 1337, but we know his disinherited loyalists hold the castle of Perth while his English allies had seized large tracts of the lowlands from Bruce. Balliol has also bought the loyalty of the MacDonald and the other Hebridean galley lords by granting them remote land on the west coast of the mainland.

Meanwhile, Scotland’s canny regent Sir Andrew de Moray launches his decisive counterattack as his true king, David II de Bruce, waits in exile in France.

political.jpg


Dynasties​

We know about Plantagenet, Balliol, and Bruce, so I've zoomed in on Ireland to show the ruling dynasties of the various chieftains and earls.

dynasty.jpg


Population​

Excuse the seams and the greyscale mapmode. We have something better in the pipeline...

population_country.jpg
population_location.jpg




Well, thats it for now!

As always the team is eagerly awaiting your feedback and looking forward to the discussions. We’ll try to keep on top of the thread, but we have a teambuilding activity this afternoon so it might be a little more sporadic than usual!

Next week: Anatolia!
 
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This is all coming along nicely and I'm especially glad to see Norse-Gael culture being represented. Are The Isles independent at the start of the game or Scottish vassals? And is it planned for them to be able to form Ireland (or a special variant of Ireland)?
 
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Pls pls pls free Buckinghamshire, Oxfordshire and Berkshire from the rule of those festering peasants in Bedfordshire. And likewise with Herts from Cambridgeshire. I don't understand why a bunch of other counties are distinct and these home counties are getting lumped together. It's painful to look at.

Also, maybe just rename Northumbria to 'the North'? Northumbria at this point is no longer "anything north of the Humber".

I'm uneducated on the subject, but is the highland clan system represented in anyway, or is it not as important as I'm imagining?

Otherwise, looks AMAZING!
 
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- There is a substantial amount of fish produced in the coastal provinces, which I find unusual as Ireland was never really a fish culture due to the rough coasts and seas making it difficult. I'm welcome to be proven wrong on this as this may have been a post-English colonialism thing. I'm aware Ireland fished, but not to the extent that I would have so many locations producing fish.
Yes and no. Herring was a commodity, especially during Lent. But the Irish also sold fishing rights. Apparently, the lords of Tír Chonaill (Toirdhealbhach an Fhíona Ó Domhnaill in particular) sold fishing rights to Spanish fisherman off their coast. They got wine in return, hence Toirdhealbhach an Fhíona 'of the Wine'.

- Dynasty names, in my view, should be native (i.e. ua Néill)

Ó during this period really. Ua was more common up to the 12th century.


- The differentiation between English and Irish place names is very weird to me. Like you have Sligeach (Irish name for Sligo) but then right beside it Castlebar (Caisleán an Bharraigh in Irish). There is also a state which owns 'Beal Feirste' (Belfast) and 'Downpatrick' which is a mix of Irish and English localisation I can't quite explain. I may be completely wrong on this, and Castlebar might be owned by Normans. If so, great job on the Gaeilge localisation!

I believe it's based off the top ruler. But Downpatrick is certainly an outlier.
Aside from the above observations, excellent job on the geography. I'm unsure about the specifics of trade goods aside from the Fish because I'm totally unsure of how Ireland was in the 1300s on this. But maybe a decision to add horses to Kildare and Meath generally as these areas are very famous for horse rearing (I believe this was later in history though).

There is an argument for horse breeding in many parts of Ireland (but probably short dumpy ponies rather than tall thoroughbreds). It was said even beggars when around on horses in Ireland.
- With the discovery of the new world, potatoes could be introduced to the island replacing already existing trade goods (spoiler alert, this went badly for us). To be historically accurate, it would be introduced by the British/English as the introduction of the potato, long story short, was enabled by the conditions that the British/English created in Ireland.

Just don't make it a mission!
- Ireland was a very heavily populated island up to the famine and mass emigration. That may have been a later occurrence but maybe that quite explosive population growth should be represented in-game.
That was primarily potato related with major jumps occuring in 16th and 17th century.
 
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I think most of England's location names are well thought out. I do have some feedback regarding the rigid borders, incorrect placement of some locations especially in the West Riding of Yorkshire, and possible location additions particularly in Lancashire/Yorkshire and the Oxford-Bedford-Camrbidge arc.

Locations (attached suggestions)
Given the rise of the significance of the British agricultural and industrial revolutions, there needs to be a balance of location prior to the 1600s and post. eg: historic divisions/towns vs cities which rise in prominence during timeframe of Project Caesar. It might be useful to use Hundred divisions with the occasional compromise with modern county/local authority boundaries.

Not too sure whether 'latent raw materials' will be a thing but the area between Manchester-Leeds-Sheffield was integral to the British textile, steel and coal industries. To capture these goods in a meaningful manner, it might be best to represent the locations as follows: Manchester ('Cottonopolis'), Bradford ('Woolopolis') and Leeds with wool but boosted later with modifiers(?); Sheffield ('Steel City') with iron but boosted later with modifiers. The addition of Wigan/Bolton and Wakefield/Pontefract allows the existence of coal, textiles and steel industries without removing wool or iron raw materials from say Manchester or Sheffield respectively.

Lancashire
I would suggest using the County Palatine Hundred boundaries to create at least 2 new locations in Lancashire:

West Riding of Yorkshire (WY)
Apart from Leeds, all the locations are quite innaccurate in terms of placement - especially Bradford which is located (in Project Caesar) in the rural areas of WY rather than between Manchester and Leeds. I would use both historic hundred divisions and maybe modern boundaries of West Yorkshire/South Yorkshire here:

Suggestions Map - Location names in red are possible suggestions
england project caesar suggestions 2.png
 
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@SaintDaveUK I live in Ireland and have a few criticisms of the map of ireland:



2 - The naming convention of the provences and areas are in the modern anglicisation of the irish county names, it would be inappropriate to keep these as the anglicised version and would be much more realistic, immersive and appropriate to use the modern irish county and provence names at the very least, eg:
Connacht -> Connachta
Galway -> Gaillimh
Ulster -> Ulaidh
Tyrone -> Tír Eoghan
If the catalan provences are named in catalan, the sicillian locations in sicillian and polish areas in polish, the irish locations, provinces and areas should all be treated the same.


5 - The naming of the countries in the game are all in an anglicisation of the actual irish names, this is a similar problem to the location, provence and area but more immediate as they are more prominant and if still run by the native irish should have their names dynamically be in the original irish, eg:
Tyrconnel -> Tír Choneill
Mayo -> Maigh Eo
Offaly -> Uí Failghe
Fermanagh -> Fir Manach

Just in relation to this, I believe many of the tags are run by Anglo-Irish lords hence the weird naming conventions. They seem to have been quite good with the localisation, from what I can say, with dynamic naming depending on who owns the province. But there is some weirdness, like 'Beal Feirste' and 'Downpatrick' being owned by the same tag, which I can't reeally explain lol.

Like for example, Navan would be named An Uaimh if owned by an Irish culture tag, and Navan if owned by an English or Norman/whatever tag. It seems like the mix of naming conventions reflects the mix of ownership on the island at the time (with some weirdness). I also wish they rename the provinces if fully or majority owned by Irish tags, although that may be confusing.
 
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I'm very curious how it will be like playing as The Pale. I know I've wanted to try to play as a released Meath in previous titles, only to be shackled down by England and eventually integrated. I presume The Pale is going to start as a vassal to England, but I'm curious what kind of possibilities it has in terms of gameplay and if you will be just as limited playing as a vassal in Project Ceasar as you would be in say EU4? Will you have to seek independence first, or could you try to envelop the petty kings of Ireland (without your overlord vassalfeeding you) before starting a bid for establishing yourself as a sovereign realm?
Johan said it was a Dominion, which he later explained was a vassal which had the same ruler.
 
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One more thing

View attachment 1148332
I'm ok with the patterns of settlement in general, but the Norman dominance in two provinces of the Laigin doesn't seem justified. Outside of Arklow and Wicklow towns, these would have been strong Irish areas. I remember reading somewhere that all areas above 300m were still in control of the Irish, and these were the most mountainous, heavily-wooded areas in Ireland.
Agreed, Laigin was an Irish holdout, and a constant irritation to the Anglo-Irish of the Pale.
 
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Yes and no. Herring was a commodity, especially during Lent. But the Irish also sold fishing rights. Apparently, the lords of Tír Chonaill (Toirdhealbhach an Fhíona Ó Domhnaill in particular) sold fishing rights to Spanish fisherman off their coast. They got wine in return, hence Toirdhealbhach an Fhíona 'of the Wine'.

Absolutely, but I believe fishing wouldn't be commonplace enough to consist of an entire trading good in these locations at the time.
 
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@SaintDaveUK

3 - Location names are inconsistant linguistically, the best example would be to compare the location of Galway to the adjacent provence of An Clochán, same can be said for Béal Feirste and Downpatrick and many more, please revisit the naming of the locations and ensure they are all in irish.
It's based on ruler culture, which is appropriate for most of those provinces (bar downpatrick).
4 - The areas in the map, in ireland called the 4 provences, were only solidified in the 1600s, at the time it would have been more realistic to depict 5 provinces at the time, the 5th being Meath or Mí in modern gailge and Mide in old gaeilge.
Midhe in this period.
6 - Whilst I do not have any census data regarding the population of anglo-irish in the southeast of the island, showing the anglo-irish as the predominant culture in some locations doesnt seem accurate, I may be mistaken but as far as Im aware there was no major settling of ireland until the attempt at plantations centuries later eg: the plantation of ulster. Whilst there would have been a signifigant minority I doubt they would have been a majority in any area.
I would concede the Pale to that and the baronies of Forth and Bargy. But also places with large towns would have been majority Hiberno-Norman/Anglo-Irish.
 
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In my original post I referred to the large debate in the Polish Tinto Maps regarding whether Polish culture should be uniform or split into regional subcultures.
But why ask for unification of something that is already unified? This is nonsense.
 
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Absolutely, but I believe fishing wouldn't be commonplace enough to consist of an entire trading good in these locations at the time.
What fishing there was would have been primarily coastal, you are right. But I don't mind the more diversified set up.
 
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Any chance the Northern Isles and Caithness could have Norn culture, instead of Norwegian? (Along with separate cultures for Faroese and Icelandic)
 
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Hello everyone. @Pavía and the rest of the Content Design team are busy working on the feedback for the previous Tinto Maps, so I'm standing in for this week.

I'm @SaintDaveUK, some of you might have seen me here and there on the forums, but the long story short is that I work on a very secret game whose name I am contractually obligated to redact. That's right, it's ███████ ██████!

This week you get a double-whammy, mostly because it’s really hard to show Britain on its own on a screenshot. Partly to side-step the “British Isles” naming controversy, but mainly because the gameplay of them both is so different, this part of Europa is divided into 2 distinct regions: Great Britain and Ireland.

Climate​

The mild Oceanic climate (Köppen Cfb) dominates the isles. Where it cools towards the inland Pennines and the Scottish Highlands (Köppen Cfc), we represent it with the wintry and dreich Continental climate.

View attachment 1148219



Topography​

The isles are dominated by green and pleasant flatlands and low rolling hills, the peripheries punctuated by rocky mountains and craggy highlands.

We would like to add some more impassable locations in northern England and the Scottish borders to make manoeuvres a little more interesting and strategic, but would like suggestions from people more familiar with the Pennines.


Vegetation​

The great moors, bogs, and fens are represented by Sparse vegetation, meanwhile much of the land is still wooded.

View attachment 1148227



Raw Materials​

The raw goods situation aims to reflect the economic reality of medieval Britain. Shepherding was common on every corner of the islands, a lot of the wool produced was sold to the industrial hub of the Low Countries to be manufactured into cloth, which was in turn sold back to British markets.

The further north-west we go, the less fertile the terrain, and as such the greater reliance on pastoral farming such as livestock over wheat. The western hills and valleys also expose a greater number of mineral delights, including the historic stannary mines of Devon and Cornwall.

View attachment 1148228



Markets​

As you can see the two starting markets are London and Dublin. Aside from London we could have chosen almost any town, from Aberdeen to Bristol. We chose Dublin as it was the main trade centre in Ireland, and also because it handsomely splits the isles to the East and West of the Pennines, demonstrating the impact that terrain can have on dynamic Market attraction.

They are both shades of red because they are coloured after the market centre’s top overlord country – market control is a viable playstyle and we like to think of it as a form of map painting for countries not focused on traditional conquest routes.

View attachment 1148224



Culture​

We have decided to go with a monolithic English culture. We could have forced the introduction of a second Northumbrian or even third Mercian culture, but typically they were not really considered separate peoples. The English, though diverse in origin and with a variety of dialects, had already begun to coalesce in the face of the Viking invasions hundreds of years before.

Scotland, conversely, is a real porridge of cultures. The Lowland Scots (who speak a dialect of Northumbrian English that later develops into the Scots language) dominate their kingdom from their wealthy burghs, and are gradually encroaching onto the pastoral lands of the Gaelic Highlanders. The Norse-Gaelic clansmen watch from the Western Isles, with some old settlements remaining around Galloway. The far north, ironically called Sutherland, retains some Norse presence.

Wales, conquered for around a century by this point, plays host to English burghers looking to make a few quid, as well as the descendants of Norman adventurer knights in the marcher lordships, but is still majority Welsh-speaking from Anglesey to Cardiff.

The Anglo-Irish (representing the spectrum from Cambro-Norman knights to the so-called ‘Old English’ settlers) live in great numbers in the south-eastern trading towns from Dublin to Cork, as well as in smaller numbers in frontier outposts.

The cosmopolitan towns across the isles are also home to people from elsewhere in Europe, most notably Flemish weavers from the Low Countries, though their numbers are too small to impact the mapmode.

The Norman ███████ dominates as the ██████████████ for both of the kingdoms and their subjects. The conquest of 1066 is no longer fresh, but the continuing bonds between the aristocratic classes of England, Scotland, and France have kept the French language alive and strong.

View attachment 1148221





Religion​

I decided that it's not even worth taking a screenshot of the Religion map mode. There are tiny minorities of Jewish people in some Scottish and Irish towns (they had been expelled from England), but they are so small in number they don't even register on the map mode

Other than that, it's all Catholic. But not for long.

> John Wycliffe has entered the chat.


Areas​

Based on the 4 provinces of Ireland (sorry Meath) and splitting England roughly into the larger Anglo-Saxon earldoms which have some similarity with the modern Regions (sorry Yorkshire).

View attachment 1148220




Provinces​

We have fixed the colours of the Provinces mapmode so you can see the individual provinces a bit more clearly. These are largely based on the historic counties, which have remained fairly constant throughout history, while merging some of those that are too small.

We’ve almost certainly offended someone.

The ancient Scottish shires are pretty messy and difficult to coalesce into neat provinces, so any suggestions for better arrangement there would be very welcome.

View attachment 1148226



Locations​


You might notice that the locations in Ireland are varyingly written in both English and in Irish. This is because we have the new system up-and-running where we can name Locations by the primary culture of the country they are owned by.

This means that for example London might be called Londres if it was ruled by a Catalan country. It’s currently a WIP feature and we might add more elements, such as a game setting to base the name on dominant culture of the location instead, or to just use default (English) names.

View attachment 1148223



Government Types​

As with most of Europe, most of the countries are under some monarchy or another, but the Irish tuathas begin with the Tribe government type. This, among other mechanics such as [redacted] helps to give them a very unique playing style in Europe.

View attachment 1148222

Countries​

England

England of course stands as the dominant kingdom in the isles. Despite having a lot of power resting on the barons, the country is fairly unitary even at this point, with very little practical separation between the crown’s power in somewhere like Kent versus Yorkshire. However there are notable exceptions.

The powerful Burgesses estate in the City of London enjoys ancient freedoms from royal power, while the king peers in from the Crown’s seat of power in neighbouring Westminster.

The County Palatine of Durham is not represented by a country, but buildings that give the Clergy Estate a huge amount of power in the locations it is present in. This also ties into political gameplay as a ██████████ ██████.

The newly created Duchy of Cornwall—the only duchy in England at the time—would also not be represented well by the Cornwall country, being a disparate set of manorial holdings that are ironically mostly in Devon. Cornwall of course exists as a releasable country though.

The Isle of Man is a little less certain. For now we have it as a subject of England. On paper it was a ‘kingdom’ awarded to William Montagu, the king’s favourite, however we aren’t sure if he actually wielded any real power on the isle. It changed hands between England and Scotland numerous times in this period, but in practice it appears to have been governed by a local council of barons. Any more details on exactly what was going on here in this period would be greatly appreciated.

These decisions have been made because as England heaves itself out of the feudal system, we thought it would be best if the small-fry inward-looking internal politicking is handled through the Estates and [redacted] systems, and then the diplomacy tracks are freed up for the English player to behave more outwardly against other major countries.

Wales

Though subjugated by conquest, Wales was not formally annexed into the Kingdom of England until the mid 1500s. As such the principality begins as a Dominion subject under England.

Those familiar with Welsh history will note that historically the Principality of Wales didn’t extend much beyond the old kingdom of Gywnedd. Much of the country to the southeast was in fact ruled by marcher lords, which we represent with a powerful Nobility estate in the valleys and beyond.

There is an alternative vision of Wales that I would like to gauge opinion on, and that is expanding it to include the Earldom of Chester and the marches on the English side of the modern border. If you are an Englishman familiar with modern borders this might look alarming, but these lands were also constitutionally ambiguous parts of the “Welsh Marches” until the 1500s. This will hand over to the Wales player the full responsibility of dealing with the marcher lords, allowing England to focus on bigger picture issues like beating France.

Ireland

Ireland is going through a moment of change. English royal power is centred on the Lordship of the Pale, the king’s Dominion ruling out of Dublin Castle. However, it struggles to keep a grasp on the rebellious Hiberno-Norman earls scattered around the island - some of whom remain as vassals, some of whom have managed to slip free of royal control.

The Tanistry system of succession endemic to the Gaelic Irish has its advantages, but it can also lead to chaotic feuds between rival branches. The so-called Burke Civil War has fractured the powerful Earldom of Ulster into rival Burke cousins who jealously feud over their shrinking lordships in Connaught. Native Irish princes of the north have reconquered most of their own lands from the de Burghs, but there are also two rival O’Neill cousins who style themselves King of Tyrone either side of the River Bann.

The feuding Irish lack a unifying figure, but anyone powerful enough could theoretically claim the title of High King. The former provincial kingdoms, such as Meath and Connacht, enjoy the elevated rank of Duchy, giving them a slight edge in the High Kingship selection.

Scotland

The chancer Edward Balliol continues his attempt for the Scottish throne, with England’s tacit permission. It’s hard to determine the exact lands held by Balliol in 1337, but we know his disinherited loyalists hold the castle of Perth while his English allies had seized large tracts of the lowlands from Bruce. Balliol has also bought the loyalty of the MacDonald and the other Hebridean galley lords by granting them remote land on the west coast of the mainland.

Meanwhile, Scotland’s canny regent Sir Andrew de Moray launches his decisive counterattack as his true king, David II de Bruce, waits in exile in France.

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Dynasties​

We know about Plantagenet, Balliol, and Bruce, so I've zoomed in on Ireland to show the ruling dynasties of the various chieftains and earls.

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Population​

Excuse the seams and the greyscale mapmode. We have something better in the pipeline...

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Well, thats it for now!

As always the team is eagerly awaiting your feedback and looking forward to the discussions. We’ll try to keep on top of the thread, but we have a teambuilding activity this afternoon so it might be a little more sporadic than usual!

Next week: Anatolia!
Does Westmorland have only 2 locations? I saw somewhere here that you guys are trying to get from 3 to 6 locations in one province
 
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I feel like Bedfordshire is an odd choice for the province name. I think Oxfordshire would work better, considering Bedfordshire wasn't as important a county as Oxfordshire. Also was wondering if there will be an option to unite the London locations later in the game or if they will stay as separate locations?
 
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think most of England's location names are well thought out. I do have some feedback regarding the rigid borders, incorrect placement of some locations especially in the West Riding of Yorkshire, and possible location additions particularly in Lancashire/Yorkshire and the Oxford-Bedford-Camrbidge arc.

Locations (attached suggestions)
Given the rise of the significance of the British agricultural and industrial revolutions, there needs to be a balance of location prior to the 1600s and post. eg: historic divisions/towns vs cities which rise in prominence during timeframe of Project Caesar. It might be useful to use Hundred divisions with the occasional compromise with modern county/local authority boundaries.

Not too sure whether 'latent raw materials' will be a thing but the area between Manchester-Leeds-Sheffield was integral to the British textile, steel and coal industries. To capture these goods in a meaningful manner, it might be best to represent the locations as follows: Manchester ('Cottonopolis'), Bradford ('Woolopolis') and Leeds with wool but boosted later with modifiers(?); Sheffield ('Steel City') with iron but boosted later with modifiers. The addition of Wigan/Bolton and Wakefield/Pontefract allows the existence of coal, textiles and steel industries without removing wool or iron raw materials from say Manchester or Sheffield respectively.

Lancashire
I would suggest using the County Palatine Hundred boundaries to create at least 2 new locations in Lancashire:

West Riding of Yorkshire (WY)
Apart from Leeds, all the locations are quite innaccurate in terms of placement - especially Bradford which is located (in Project Caesar) in the rural areas of WY rather than between Manchester and Leeds. I would use both historic hundred divisions and maybe modern boundaries of West Yorkshire/South Yorkshire here:

Suggestions Map - Location names in red are possible suggestions
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Wonderful stuff, I would potentially rename Craven as Skipton considering they use Town/Cities instead of areas.

In this I would see Bradford/Sheffield to Blackburn/Mancs/Buxton and Craven/Richmond/Darlington/Tynedale to Keswick/Appleby/Kendal as impassable
 
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