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Tinto Maps #7 - 21st of June 2024 - Anatolia

Hello everyone, and welcome to the seventh edition of Tinto Maps! I am once again asking for your support back to the duty of showing a new region of the map of the super secret Project Caesar, which this week is Anatolia!

Countries:
Countries.jpg

A beautifully divided Anatolia! The disintegration of the Sultanate of Rûm in the 13th century, caused by the Mongol invasion, led to multiple Turkish Beyliks grabbing power over their area. Probably the strongest in 1337 is the Ottoman one, founded by the Turkoman leader Osman Ghazi, but there are other strong contenders such as the Eretnids, the Germiyanids, or the Karamanids, which will be fighting for hegemony over the region. You might also notice that the Byzantine Empire//Eastern Roman Empire//Basileía Rhōmaíōn//[insert here your favorite naming option] still holds a few positions in Anatolia, the most notable being the city of Philadelphia. Apart from them, other interesting countries in the region are the Despotate of Trebizond, held by the Komnenoi, the Armenian Kingdom of Cilicia, and, of course, The-country-known-in-another-IP-as-Hisn-Kayfa, the Ayyubid remnant in al-Jazira. And you might also notice some Genoese outposts, making them important players as well.

Dynasties:
Dynasties.png

The dynastic map is pretty straightforward, as a different dynasty rules each Beylik. We have fixed the issue with the random dynasty names, so no more weird 'the XXXX of XXXX' dynastic names anymore. To spice things up, we could maybe start a Byzantine discussion: Palaiologos, or Komnenos?

Locations:
Locations.jpg

As usual, please consider that dynamic location naming is not yet a thing in this region, and therefore the inconsistencies in the language used. As an additional note of caution, please don’t use the Aegean Islands as a reference or benchmark for comparison, as a review of them is something that we’ve got on our list of ‘to do’. You may be able to see that the location density in the region is gradual, from denser coastal regions to bigger inland ones.

Provinces:
Provinces.png

We have changed the coloring of the provinces, making them more different, and easier to understand, though. Apart from that, suggestions in this matter are welcomed, as usual.

Terrain:
Climate.jpg

Topography.jpg

Vegetation.jpg

The terrain in Anatolia is quite interesting and unique, as it’s composed of very different features: the central Anatolian Plateau, with a colder climate and more sparse vegetation, is opposed to the rugged and more forested coastlines to the north and south, while only having fluvial flatlands to the west, and in Cilicia (an area that always has been a choke point between Anatolia and Syria. And to the east, the territory becomes increasingly more mountainous, as it approaches the Caucasus.

Cultures:
Cultures.jpg

Anatolia is the first region of the Middle East with cultural and religious minorities added, just in time for this Tinto Maps, so we can have endless discussions about the divide between the Greek and Turkish cultures! Hurray! Now seriously, we’ve made what we think is the most accurate division for 1337, given the scarcity of data. The stripes point to a variation of the pop percentages in each location, from let’s say 70% of Greeks in Izmit or Bursa, to 80% of Turks in Ankara or Konya. We have also added some subdivisions of these cultures, with the Pontic and Cappadocian Greeks; and the Turkomans (you might note a majority of them around Sivas and Malatya), that portray more a ‘class//social grouping’ divide than an ethnic or language divide, as these Turkoman pops are always tribesmen, while we consider the settled population as Turkish. Other than that, we have a good amount of Armenians distributed between the areas of Cilicia and Armenia; Laz people to the north; and Kurds to the east (the brownish-greenish culture). Also, please ignore the chunk of Syria that appears, as the minorities there are not yet done.

Religions:
Religions.jpg

We’re back to interesting religious divisions! We have in Anatolia Orthodox, Sunni, Miaphysite, and Nestorian pops. And if you wonder what are those pink stripes in Thrace, they are a Paulician minority.

Raw Materials:
Raw Materials.jpg

There are some interesting materials distributed all over Anatolia, such as Alum (which was a main export to Italy, usually handled by the merchant republics), Silk, Marble, or Copper. And if you’re wondering about the Spices, they were previously Saffron.

Markets:
Markets.jpg

The market centers of the region are Constantinople to the west, Trebizond to the north, and Damascus to the south. Nothing speaks against a Turkish Beylik conquering one or all of them, or creating a new market center, probably in the middle of the Anatolian Plateau, although probably it will require some infrastructure to make it fully functional.

Location and Country Population:
Pops Locations.jpg

Pops Country.jpg

And populations. Byzantium has some edge over each of the Beylikz, but not if they ally with each other, or if they ally with its Balkanic rivals… Also, have I heard about a 66K Ayyubid challenge?

That’s all for today! We’ll most likely be uploading the French feedback results by the end of next week or at the start of the following one (as next week there's an important bank holiday for this company, Midsommar St. John's Day, and some people will be on vacation a few days), and in the meantime, we'll also be reading and answering your feedback about Anatolia. And next Friday, we will be taking a look at Russia. See you then!

PS: I had a flight today that was delayed, therefore the delay on the DD until an (interesting) hour in which I'll be available for replying.
 
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Why not? A lot of countries with different religions claimed to be Rome's ancestors, I think Ottomans did too to some extent. Would make sense if they capitalized on this, if chances came.
Sidenote I can't decide if I love or hate how "ancestors" is shifting to mean both ancestors and descendants
 
Playing in EU4 I had problems to catch some islands in Aegean sea (Naxos, Rodos, Lesbos and other). It was not easy to unload troops on the island or just get the information on the province. Can I ask you to highlight islands somehow? Say, if I press 'ctrl' then islands get bold tracing which helps to catch it with my mouse. Or something similar.
Dynasties_bold.png
Dynasties.png
It might be useful also for Caribbean region as well.
 
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As a resident of Van city, I learned that my hometown is not included in Anatolia(!). Thank you Paradox.
well technically you are part of the caucasus , anatolia end at the black sea's curve north and mediteranean curve south . its only the peninsula proper not the land east of it.
the actual east anatolia in the turkish state is more of a new modern split thing .
1718983292671.png
 
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You may want to rename Greek ethnicity to Romaioi as the term Greek was considered a grievous insult by those people. On the other hand, they literally used Greek as their native language. Would be interesting to see the culture shift back to the label Greek in the event of the collapse of the politea.
The term Greek/Hellene wasn't really considered an insult at this point. The term Hellene and association with it had seen a revival by Eastern Roman intelligentsia, such as Anna Komnene, and especially during the Latin rule after the Fourth Crusade, where the term "Hellene" was widely used as a synonym for "Romaios/Roman" in the Empire of the Nicaea. John III Vatatzes even considered using "Emperor of the Hellenes" in his official correspondences. And while the average uneducated peasant wouldn't have likely called themselves a "Hellene" (and might've looked at you funny if you called them that), they did tend to consider themselves the descendants of the ancient Greeks.
 
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At least some of the Ottoman emperors did include in their list of titles Kaiser of Rome. It seems to me that at least some of them claimed to be the Emperor of Rome. (Whether I think their claim is correct, I have not decided)

They did, in the sense that they considered themselves Caesars of Romans (Greek Orthodox population) within borders of Ottoman state. In the same way they also called themselves rulers of Arabia and Acem (Iran) and Sultan of Sultans and Khans of Khans. It was never about being specifically successors to Roman Empire as an entity but being sovereign of various peoples and lands. Similarly it wouldn't be too sensible to let Ottomans also form Arabia or Iran either despite their claim of rulership over those territories.

Basically specifically ascribing Roman succession to them narrows it down way too much to a particular descent to exclusion of everything else. They could be considered a successor to Roman Empire as they did succeed Roman state in Constantinople and inherited the important Patriarchate of Constantinople, as well as adapting some of their administrative methods but I don't think they can be considered the successor state to Romans to point of being able to somewhat revive Roman Empire when so much of their state traditions and institutions were based on Turco-Persianate, Turco-Mongol and Islamic precedent.
 
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Also, Laz people are Kartvelian-language and ethnic group people (which is simply Georgian), so you should add them to the Kartvelian culture group (or Caucasian) if you have such mechanics in the game or make them related otherwise because they are the same people.
 
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I don't know if this is the place but can you give us some information about the migration patterns into and from anatolia? I think this is an important point because as far as I know, one of the important advantages the Ottomans had over the other beyliks were that they were a frontier beylik. This enabled them to gather religiously and sometimes tribally motivated extra pops (Ghazi warriors) throughout anatolia for their armies. This was especially important for the 14th century as the Mongol invasions and the soon to come Timur would plunge significant populations in iran and mesopotamia to migration into anatolia. Even the tribe that founded the Ottomans were such a tribe fleeing the Mongol invasions and was relocated to the frontier by the then still alive Seljuk sultanate. To the best of my knowledge this influx of population was one of the main means and also one of the main motivations of westward expansion of the Ottomans. It also partly accounts for the quick expansion of Ottoman power and Turkish population into Rumelia.

I don't know if you would/could implement such an emergent and complex migration dynamic over a large distance but such a system would make the rise of the Ottomans against both their beylik rivals and the Byzantines more realistic and simulative rather than tied to certain gamey Otto-specific bonuses or events.
Ghazi warriors will be portrayed in a certain way.
 
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As usual, here are my comments on topography and climate:

Climate
- Oceanic seems underrepresented along the Northern coast and Western hills.
- Ahtopol (Byz) should also be oceanic.
- Arctic zones are designated as impassable, but for consistency's sake it would be nice to mark them as such.

Tinto's designKöppen 1901-1930 reclassified to Tinto's design
View attachment 1151372View attachment 1151373

Topography
Eastern Anatolia
  • I LOVE the way you represented the Cilician gates! But please extend the same love to the Amanian gate ;)
    • Xarani needs to be largely impassable (northeastern half)
    • Anavarza and Kapan should have to maneuver through Ulnia
    • Ulnia should be hills instead of Mountains
  • Centrally, I'd switch some province terrains around:
    • Siran -> mountains
    • Bayburt -> plateau
    • Zara+Hafik+Sivas -> plateau
    • border of Divrigi/Afin/Arapgir needs rework to include the mountain massif
    • Kemah -> mountains
    • Tercan -> hills
View attachment 1151390View attachment 1151405 View attachment 1151394View attachment 1151393View attachment 1151409View attachment 1151396View attachment 1151395
Western Anatolia
  • The border between Beyschir - Manavgat seems to be rather impassable in real life, while it's a plateau-flatlands transition in game.
  • The 2 mountain ranges in the Aydin Province are neglected. Perhaps an east-west impassable could emulate the fact that armies need to go around them?
  • - Akcakoca (North) should be hills instead of flatlands
    - Inegol-Bursa-Domanic needs an impassable range on their borders
    - Northern Edremit needs an impassable in the northernmost part
Linear DEM (0-3500 m)Tinto's designReclassified terrain based on ruggedness index
View attachment 1151369View attachment 1151370View attachment 1151371
Great post, as usual, thank you very much!
 
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There will be Muslim schools of jurisprudence, and we also want to portray Sufism, and most likely Alevism, yes.

Hopefully Sufism won't be represented as some sort of different religious belief or as a strict opposition to Orthodoxy. Sufi lodges and practices were pretty much widely present in Anatolia and much of Middle-east in this period and there were many lodges which were very much Orthodox Sunni. Similarly heterodox beliefs like Alevism, or lodges such as Bektashis were more on the heterodox scale rather than being on a false dichotomy of Orthodox vs. Sufi scale.

Basically, I believe the dichotomy for religion should be for Orthodox vs. Heterodox and Sufis should be present on both sides of that. States should try to generally aim towards establishing Orthodoxy backed by Clergy to varying success. While others could be found by heterodox orders like Safavids or have patronage of heterodox orders like Bektashi in Ottoman state.
 
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