Tinto Maps #7 - 21st of June 2024 - Anatolia

[Pavía]

I don't think they should get all the possibilities though. Ottomans had several distinct features of governance and administration that separated them from other Turkish beyliks and indeed other Turkic / Turco-Mongol states at the time. Particularly in regards to their pragmatic and dynamic governance and ability to quickly absorb and adapt elites and institutions. Giving other beyliks just same stuff as Ottomans if they happen to replace them really doesn't do justice to their features as they were definitely unique and not just the Turkish beylik that happened to win the Turkish thunderdome.

That they have similar possibilities doesn't mean that they will be exactly the same, content-wise.

 

[Pavía]

One recommendation I can make to you guys is to avoid modern-day politics, or the Moderation team will come and do their job.

We aim to portray Greek, Turkish, Armenian, or any other culture with the higher degree of accuracy possible for 1337, given the availabilty of sources and data of good quality, without any type of preferences of one culture over others.

 

[Pavía]

You left the informative reaction on all of my long posts except the culture one. Does that mean no more Turks? Not even a few locations?

Sometimes I might miss it, or the forum may not be fast enough when clicking the reactions. In any case, no worries; they way we're working is that I give early and quick replies the first few days of a Tinto Maps, but then some people from my team and I review the thread more in detail a few days/weeks after, so these kind of comments are not missed.

 

[Pavía]

I don't know if this has been suggested before as I haven't read the entire thread, but I would like to suggest the start of Byz/Ottoman to be similar to the French/English in EU4. Which goes to say they're technically at war but due to gameplay reasons the actual gameplay of the war isn't active until an event.

Example:

Event for Byzantine Empire (meantime to happen from start date 12 months):
The Aftermath of Nicomedia,
Option 1) Formalize a peace with the sultan, Lose core to Nicomedia(Izmit), lose prestige/legitimacy, pay tribute and recieve migration from Nicomedia to Constantinople
Option 2) Reassert claim to Nicomedia, gain prestige/legitimacy and declare war on the sultan.

Option 1 being the closest to history only delayed for gameplay purposes, Option 2 being the option for the romanphiles that are ready to take on the Ottomans despite rebelions raging on in the rest of the empire.

I suppose on that same note, in 1337 do you have Serbia and the Byzantines having a truce? There was a conflict between them that ended in a peace treaty in 1334; they should probably have a truce in 1337.

The reason I bring it up is because if you have the Byzantines and the Ottomans at war and Serbia not having a truce in 1337, then Serbia would be best off more-or-less immediately declaring war against the Byzantines if the Byzantine AI isn't inclined to simply "give up defending Anatolia" as it was in 1337.

Historically speaking, at this point the Byzantines basically gave up trying to defend Anatolia. My fear of having the Ottomans and Byzantines start at war in 1337 is that the AI will overcommit and ruin itself economically trying to defend territory that it can't afford to defend. That and, with Serbia not having a truce with the Byzantines, Serbia declaring war and conquering large swathes of the Byzantines.

All of that before the civil war!

Taking note of both.

 

[Pavía]

very happy to read this. I get Genoa (the golden child for the bank mechanic) and i also get the Ottomans for well obvious reasons, but now i wonder about Hungary, it seems very clear to me that Hungary will have some very unique mechanic linked to them, anyone has any idea about what that could be? or maybe you Pavia wanna enlighten us

I don't think there's any particularly unique mechanic attached to Hungary, but if there is, then maybe it could be something related to the Holy Crown. In this time period, one could become the legitimate King of Hungary only if he (or she) was crowned:

• in Fehérvár, in the Royal Basilica,
• by the Archbishop of Esztergom,
• with the Holy Crown of Hungary.

(After the Turks took Fehérvár, that one condition of the coronation ceased to exist, but the other two remained a requirement all the way until the abolition of the kingdom in 1946.)

So perhaps there are some mechanics one has to interact with to secure the legitimacy of succession. Perhaps the benefit of this system is increased legitimacy, access to CBs related to the claims of the Hungarian Crown or something related to the King of Hungary's claim to the style of "Apostolic Majesty" and the rights associated with it.


With this being said, Hungary probably is just a strong tag at the start with a very wide array of gameplay options, which makes it an ideal playtest subject.

interesting, i honestly was thinking something about the order of saint george (first secular chivalric order) or the interregnum (which hungary just got out of), and would fall back into later down the line.


i could be wrong but i don't think so, pavia said he played it a lot of time and is one of those he likes the most, something with nothing but a strong start and with a lot of gameplay options won't make the cut for one of the most liked, it's the flavor that come with it that makes it the most liked.

Hungary starts in a good position, with a decent size to manage, good population, lots of resources, plenty of opportunities for internal and external expansion, etc. So I find it really good to test the core systems and mechanics, and also differente gameplay options.

 

[Pavía]

Would it help if Tinto listed which sources they've used, so people can prioritise searching for others or scrutinise it properly? Or is there too wide a range?

Too wide a range.

 

[Pavía]

What about the Druze religion are there any plans to have it be represented?

Yes, we'd also like to represent it.

 

[Pavía]

Hard to tell because of the resolution, but on the population/Location mapmode Rhodos has a population of 16.038
View attachment 1153761
while on the population/Country mapmode it seems to have a population of 51.035
View attachment 1153762
Does that mean the Knights Hospitaller have more than the Location of Rhodos at gamestart, or is it a a visual Bug, or should I visit an Optometrist?
("Optometrist" thank you DragonSlapper64)

edit: changed ophthalmologist to Optometrist (and updated the thanks lol)

The Knights of St John have more population than that of Rhodes, that comes from [REDACTED].