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Tinto Maps #9 - 5th of July 2024 - Carpathia and the Balkans

Greetings, and welcome to another Tinto Maps! This week we will be taking a look at Carpathia and the Balkans! It will most likely be an interesting region to take a look at, with a lot of passion involved… So I’ll just make an initial friendly reminder to keep a civil discussion, as in the latest Tinto Maps, as that’s the easiest way for us to read and gather your feedback, and improve the region in a future iteration. And now, let’s start with the maps!

Countries:
Countries.png

Carpathia and the Balkans start in a very interesting situation. The Kingdom of Hungary probably stands as the most powerful country in 1337, but that only happened after the recovery of the royal power enforced by Charles I Robert of the House of Anjou, who reined in the powerful Hungarian nobility. To the south, the power that is on the rise is the Kingdom of Serbia, ruled by Stefan Uroš IV Dušan, who has set his eyes on his neighbors to expand his power. The Byzantine Empire, meanwhile, is in a difficult position, as internal struggles ended in Andronikos III being crowned sole emperor, at the cost of dividing the realm; both Serbia and Bulgaria have in the past pressed over the bordering lands, while the Ottomans have very recently conquered Nicomedia. The control over the Southern Balkans is also very fractioned, with a branch of the Anjou ruling over Albania, the Despotate of Epirus under the nominal rule of Byzantium as a vassal, Athens, Neopatria and Salona as vassals of the Aragonese Kings of Sicily, Anjou protectorates over Achaia and Naxos, and only nominal Byzantine control over Southern Morea. It’s also noticeable the presence of the Republics of Venice and Genoa, which control several outposts over the Adriatic and Aegean Seas. A final note: in previous maps, Moldavia was shown in the map, but we’ve removed it from it, and it will most likely spawn through a chain of events in the 1340s.

Dynasties:
Dynasties.png

The House of Anjou rules over Naples, Hungary, Albania, Achaia, and Cephalonia; they’re truly invested in their push for supremacy over the region. Apart from that, each country is ruled by different dynasties, except for Athens and Neopatria, ruled by the House of Aragón-Barcelona.

Locations:
Locations 1.png

Locations 2.png

Locations 3.png

Locations 4.png
This week we’re posting the general map of the region, along with some more detailed maps, that can be seen if you click on the spoiler button. A starting comment is that the location density of Hungary is noticeably not very high; the reason is that it was one of the first European maps that we made, and we based it upon the historical counties. Therefore, I’m already saying in advance that this will be an area that we want to give more density when we do the review of the region; any help regarding that is welcome. Apart from that, you may notice on the more detailed maps that Crete appears in one, while not being present in the previous one; because of the zooming, the island will appear next week along with Cyprus, but I wanted to make an early sneak peek of the locations, given that is possible with this closer zoom level. Apart from that, I’m also saying in advance that we will make an important review of the Aegean Islands, so do not take them as a reference for anything, please.

Provinces:
Provinces.png

Provinces! Nothing outstanding to be commented on here; as usual, we’re open to any feedback regarding them.

Terrain:
Climate.png

Topography.png

Vegetation.png

Terrain! The climate of the region is mostly divided between Continental and Mediterranean, with some warmer and some colder regions. Regarding the topography, the Carpathian mountains are famously important and strategic, while the Balkans are a quite hilly and mountainous region, which is also greatly covered by woods and forests.

Cultures:
Cultures.png

Here comes the fun part of the DD: The cultural division of the Balkans! A few comments:
  1. Hungary is full of different minorities. Transylvania, especially, is an interesting place: there we have a mix of ‘Hungarians’, ‘Transylvanians’ (which are the Romanian-speaking inhabitants of the region), ‘Transylvanian Germans’, and ‘Szekely’ people.
  2. We have divided the Southern Slavic-speaking region into their dialectal families of Slovene, Croatian, Bosnian, and Serbian.
  3. The Southern Balkans are mostly divided among Bulgarian, Albanian, and Greek cultures.
  4. We’re also portraying plenty of other cultures, such as Dalmatians, Aromanians, Sclavenes, Arvanites, Cumans, Jasz, or Ashkenazi and Romanyoti Jews.

Religions:
Religion.png

This one is also interesting. Apart from the divide between Western Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy, we have the Krstjani in Bosnia, Bogomils (the pink stripes both in Bosnia and Macedonia), and Paulicians in Thrace. The Jewish populations do not pass the threshold percentage to appear on the map, but there are plenty of communities across the region.

Raw Materials:
Raw Materials.png

The materials of the region. Something very noticeable is the richness of minerals, with plenty of Iron, Copper, Tin, Lead, Gold, and Silver. Specifically, Slovakia is very rich, and you definitely want more settlers to migrate to the region, and exploit its resources. The region is also very rich in agricultural resources, as you can see.

Markets:
Markets.png

The region is mostly divided among four markets: Venice, Pest, Ragusa and Constantinople.

Country and Location population:
Population 1.png

Population 2.png

Population 3.png

Population 4.png
Country and location population (which I’ve also sub-divided, and is under the Spoiler button).

And that’s all of today! I hope that you find the region interesting; we certainly think that it is. Next week we will go further south, and we will take a look at the Syrian Levant and Egypt. Cheers!
 
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Thopias claimed the title "Prince of Albania" only after the fall of the Duchy of Durazzo, if I understand correctly. They did maintain the title "Kingdom of Albania" at this date, if I'm not mistaken.
For vassalage, I'd only make them vassals of Naples if vassals of countries can have their own vassals in turn, which might not be the case; also, the County of Gravina being a vassal of Naples while also being in a Personal Union with Albania doesn't mean Albania is a vassal of Naples, in fact countries can be vassals of one country while their ruler is also a ruler of a country that isn't a vassal of that overlord
Regarding the Thopias I couldn't find when the rulers called themselves princes of Albania but it seems that in 1337 their title was the counts of Mat/Matia so I think their tag should be renamed to Mat rather than their family(the same can't be said for the other 2)
 
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Regarding the Thopias I couldn't find when the rulers called themselves princes of Albania but it seems that in 1337 their title was the counts of Mat/Matia so I think their tag should be renamed to Mat rather than their family(the same can't be said for the other 2)
I think it's okay to have them as Thopia, etc. Ireland and Scotland also use clan-names here and there.
 
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Dunno county of Thopia sounds weird, it'd be cool if they add something like a "family of" title
It doesn't necessarily have to be a preposition, the format could probably also be "Thopia Principality" or "Thopia Domain"
 
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Hi,

I present my proposal for the division of Croatia and Bosnia. I have taken into account some of the suggestions of others, but there are also some of my own ideas, which I got from reading various sources. Slavonia and Syrmia have such borders that they can combine behind Hungary's proposal.

Since I am not from these places, I also ask for suggestions and comments, especially for Bosnia.

View attachment 1202489

AreaProvinceID Loc.Location
CroatiaKvarner
1​
Fiume (Ita. Hun.), Rijeka (Cro.), Reka (Slo. Cha.)
2​
Crikvenica (Cro. Hun.), Cirquenizza (Ita.), Cirknenz (Ger.)
3​
Senj (Cro.), Segna (Ita.), Zengg (Hun. Ger.)
4​
Krk (Cro.), Veglia (Ita.), Vikla (Dal.), Vegl. (Ger.)
5​
Cres (Cro.), Crepsa (Dal.), Cherso (Ita.)
Modruš
6​
Ogulin (Cro.)
7​
Delnice (Cro.)
8​
Slunj (Cro.), Szluin (Hun.), Sluin (Ger.)
Lika
9​
Otočac (Cro.), Otocsán (Hun.), Ottocio (Ita.) Ottochaz (Ger.)
10​
Korenica (Cro.)
11​
Kaseg (Cro.),
Una
12​
Krupa (Cro.)
13​
Petrovac (Cro.)
14​
Bihać (Cro.)
IstriaLook into my Germany proposal
DalmatiaZadar
15​
Zadar (Cro.), Zara (Ven. Ita.), Jadra (Dal.)
15aPag (Cro.), Pago (Ita.), Baag (Ger.)
16​
Novigrad (Cro.) Novegradi (Ita. Ven.)
Šibenik
17​
Šibenik (Cro.), Sebenico (Ita.), Sebenego (Ven.)
18​
Biograd (Cro.), Zaravecchia (Ita.), Zaravecia (Ven.)
19​
Knin (Cro.), Tenin (Ita. Ven.)
Split
20​
Split (Cro.), Spalato (Ita.)
21​
Sinj (Cro.), Signo (Ita.)
22​
Poljica (Cro.), Poglizza (Ita.)
23​
Makarska (Cro.), Macarsca (Ita.)
24​
Brač (Cro.), Brazza (Ita.)
25​
Hvar (Cro.), Lesina (Ita.)
Dubrovnik
26​
Dubrovnik (Cro.), Ragusa (Ita.)
27​
Ston (Cro.), Stagno (Ita.)
28​
Korčula (Cro.), Curzola (Ita.)
SlavoniaPrigorje
29​
Zagreb (Cro.), Zágráb (Hun.) Agram (Ger.)
30​
Samobor (Cro.), Szamobor (Hun.)
31​
Jastrebarsko (Cro.), Jaska (Hun.)
32​
Vrbovec (Cro.), Verbovecz (Hun.)
33​
Križevci (Cro.), Kőrös (Hun.), Kreutz (Ger.)
Zagorje
34​
Varaždin (Cro.), Varasd (Hun.), Warasdin (Ger.)
35​
Krapina (Cro.), Korpona (Hun.)
Pokuplje
36​
Banija (Cro.)
37​
Glina (Cro.)
38​
Petrinja (Cro.) Petrinya (Hun.)
Zrin
39​
Zrin (Cro.)
40​
Novi Grad (Cro.) Novi (Ser.)
41​
Cazin (Cro.)
Moslavina
42​
Čazma (Cro.), Csázma (Hun.)
43​
Garešnica (Cro.), Gerzence (Hun.)
44​
Sisak (Cro.), Sisek (Slo. Kaj.), Sissek (Ger.), Sziszek (Hun.)
45​
Novska (Cro.), Novszka (Hun.)
Podravina
46​
Koprivnica (Cro.), Kapronca (Hun.), Kopreinitz (Ger.)
47​
Virovitica (Cro.), Verőce (Hun.), Wirowititz (Ger.)
48​
Slatina (Cro.), Szalatnok (Hun.)
SyrmiaVukovo
49​
Požega (Cro.), Pozsega (Hun.), Poschegg (Ger.)
50​
Đakovo (Cro.), Diakovár (Hun.), Diakowar (Ger.)
51​
Vukovar (Cro.), Vukovár (Hun.), Wukowar (Ger.)
Posavina
52​
Brod na Savi (Cro.), Broth an der Save (Ger.), Bród (Hun.)
53​
Tisovac (Cro.)
54​
Vinkovci (Cro.), Vinkovce (Hun.), Winkowitz (Ger.)
Srem
55​
Šid (Ser.) Sid (Hun.)
56​
Sremska Kamenica (Ser.), Srijemska Kamenica (Cro.), Kamánc (Hun.), Kamenitz (Ger.)
57​
Morović (Ser.)
58​
Sremska Mitrovica (Ser.), Srijemska Mitrovica (Cro.), Szávaszentdemeter (Hun.)
59​
Zemun (Ser.), Zimony (Hun.)
BosniaBosna
60​
Vrhbosna
61​
Zenica
62​
Kakanj
63​
Sokolac
64​
Srebrenica
65​
Goražde
66​
Ustikolina
Soli
67​
Soli
68​
Zvonik
69​
Bijeljina
70​
Srebrenik
Usora
71​
Žepče
72​
Mile
73​
Dobor
78​
Doboj
Sana
79​
Gradiška
80​
Dubica
81​
Miren
Donji Kraji
82​
Zvedaj
83​
Ključ
84​
Jajce
85​
Bugojno
HercegovinaHum
86​
Mostar
87​
Imotski
88​
Driva
89​
Metković
Trebinje
90​
Trebinje
91​
Gacko
92​
Nevesinje
93​
Ljubinje
Neretva
94​
Konjic
95​
Kalinovik
Tripolje
96​
Livno
97​
Šipovo
98​
Drvar

Ita. – Italian name

Ven. – Venetian name

Dal. – Dalmatian name

Slo. – Slovenian name

Cro. – Croatian name

Kaj. – Kajkavian name

Cho. – Chakavian name

Ser. – Serbian name

Ger. – German name

Hun. – Hungarian name
Excellent work, but I would only argue that the province of Istria does not belong to area of Croatia, and the provinces of Zrin, Pokuplje and Sana actually belong to area of Croatia (looking historically). Also the entire area of Syrmia should belong to area of Slavonia.
 
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is it just me or they changed the Carpathian wasteland?
View attachment 1203910
They did, in fact it seems like the Carpathian-Balkan region is done on whichever branch Johan took the screenshots on (Albanian principalities, many additional locations in Slovenia and Croatia, wasteland remix); @Johan was either working on the map review branch when taking these screenshots, or the map review is actually already secretly done and already merged into the main branch; probably only he can deny or confirm it
 
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View attachment 1204536

I think that Hungary was uppdated based on the eager suggestions of the historical counties.
There are some unwelcome mergers of countries (Veszprém-Fejér, Nyitra-Pozsony, Fehér-Hunyad), but I guess it's mostly nicely done
 
Is the white location (capital) Buda or is it Visegrad?
It is hard to say, because they went with one location for the two.
It definitely shouldn't be in a different province than Pest, imo.
 
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View attachment 1204536

I think that Hungary was uppdated based on the eager suggestions of the historical counties.
Actually looking at this it might not be done in Slovakia/Upper Hungary yet, for example, because there they kept the exact same province setup as before (Pozsony with Nyitra, mega Trencsén, Szepes-Sáros-Abaúj unnecessary gigamerge, Zemplén-Bereg-Ung as one large province for some reason), so it might also be WIP
 
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Make sense, they need to take feedback of 79 of pages, but there's a chance they just didn't bother with Slovakia sadly
I would be surprised if they didn't take the Southern half of the Carpathians just as seriously as they did with the Northern side in Poland and Halych..
 
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I would be surprised if they didn't take the Southern half of the Carpathians just as seriously as they did with the Northern side in Poland and Halych..
Yeah, I wouldn't worry about that. That part also needed a rework. Even if our proposals might be too detailled.
 
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Yeah, I wouldn't worry about that. That part also needed a rework. Even if our proposals might be too detailled.
Yeah, there is absolutely no reason to treat Poland and Hungary differently; both had a very similar situation, size, and status in this era, so I would expect (or at least wish) around 35-40 provinces like Poland proper.
 
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Here's to hoping they just haven't reflected the changes to the southeastern Balkans yet, because it appears the quasi-modern border between Bulgaria and Serbia is still there and there's still no way for the Hungarian occupation of Vidin to happen.

1729418207471.png
 
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