Tinto Maps Special Edition - 6th of January 2025 - The World

[zorkman]

One thing I do find confusing is you have all these languages & cultures around the world, particulalry North/South Americas & yet the provinces are virtually empty with none or very few countries in them. How can they exist if no one lives there.

 

[Ekyman]

One thing I do find confusing is you have all these languages & cultures around the world, particulalry North/South Americas & yet the provinces are virtually empty with none or very few countries in them. How can they exist if no one lives there.

Most of those locations do have pops in them, they just don't belong to any country or SOP.

For the few locations that are actually uninhabited, the engine still requires every location to have a culture assigned.

 

[SchwarzKatze]

So why is the area around the Gobi desert green/yellow?

Which place exactly? Gobi Desert is solid black on the map. Do you mean the Hexi Corridor?

Hexi Corridor - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Zerodv]

The Standard Italian language which it looks like the map is referencing was only spoken by 2.5% of the population in 1861. And with fairly recently I meant around the unification periods. So I don't think the statement that it was fairly recently created is entirely incorrect. But I'm not sure about Italian or Italian mutual intelligibility.

With the Germanic region I am fairly confident in saying that a random person/peasant from Emmen would not be able to communicate with someone from Vienna. So if they wanted to move to Vienna they would have to learn a new language/way of speech. Now I'm not saying that it certainly means that these 2 are different languages as languages and dialects are a subject of debate and there was a dialect continuum.
The main point I was making is that using modern standardized language names makes it seem like those people back in the day were speaking modern standard Italian or German. I am just afraid that people do not understand that these people back in the day were not speaking that, sorta absorbing those histories and languages into 1 German or Italian blob. So again in my eyes it would be a lot better to use more neutral terms, protecting the people from the trap that its all connected to the modern states/languages.

Another example of the unfair/weird way Paradox has done this is the "Scandinavian" language. It would be the same as if they went to the map and renamed it Swedish or Danish. It would hand pick 1 descendant language of that and call all previous versions of that language by the modern hand picked name. It just does not make sense. But they did do it the correct way in my eyes, they used a neutral term for it, not going back and renaming it after Swedish or Danish but choosing a term that all modern Scandinavian peoples can agree upon as it is not picking favorites. So why can't Paradox do the same with the Germanic or Italian regions?

Florentine Tuscan being the established literary lingua franca in Italy by the 15th century, so most of the game's time period.

I agree with splitting German+Dutch+Frisian in 2, High+Middle German and Low Saxon+Low Franconian+Frisian zones. Italian could be split into Central Italian and Southern Italian, but this split is fine too

I find the semantical argument frankly irrelevant and boring, I don't care to name things weirdly or in a roundabout way just to make a point to people that shouldn't get all their historical and language history information from a game to begin with.

 

[FaeKissed]

Bring back Wales imo. It allows you to do the Grenada deconquista thing in Britain without having it be a generic country by being releasable.

The one thing I'm a little hesitant about is how the New World is represented with terra nullis. Society of Pops should be shown on the map in the same way Vicky 3 shows unorganized countries. Plus, the fact that Hawaii isn't playable when it became a country by the end of the game's timeframe is odd.

 

[orebe2003]

The Barents Sea (around Arangelsk) should proably be represented as internal. If nothing else, the place freezes over in winter, which has historically been important for Russia.

 

[JMorais]

Seeing the density of sops in north and south America it makes me wonder if the schorlarship is really that sparse regarding pre-columbian natives in SA

 

[donbg]

Awesome. I can see Buddhism was split, here's hoping you guys changed the name of the Chinese religion as well to not Mahayana.

 

[Trepanator]

I love how the trade mapmode looks like, i like it so much i think you should make a mapmode that has light instead of pop numbers, just because it would be pretty to look at.

 

[GeneralNoob]

Which place exactly? Gobi Desert is solid black on the map. Do you mean the Hexi Corridor?

Hexi Corridor - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

No.

Gobi Desert - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I said in and arround the Gobi desert. Ignoring the desert itself, you can check any topographic map of China to realize how nonsensical the development map is:

China topographic map, elevation, terrain

Average elevation: 901 m • China • Visualization and sharing of free topographic maps.

en-gb.topographic-map.com

There is no reason for the inner mongolai to be that high dev, outperforming major agricultural and urban centres. If it was certain areas in inner Mongolai: Sure, but it is the entirety of inner Mongolia that is high dev. The area around Hulun Buir is barely populated. There is no major agriculture going on either, given its climate.

We can also take any other area of China. According to the dev map, any given province of any given area of China is more prosperous than pretty much most of earth. In return Sarai is black and Prag is green. Prag had a population of about 40k, Sarai of about 100k. Any given province in China is appearently more high dev than Sarai, but not as much as Prag. So the dev map doesnt follow any logic.

Mountains are more high dev than a metropolitan high populated city. Junggles are. Forests are. Barren areas are. Areas with no agriculture are. Literally everything is. You dont see the commecial approach of this? I am not saying China shouldnt be high dev, but the dev distribution is certainly overexaggerated and doesnt follow much of a logic. At least no sufficent logic that was provided by the devs.

I can also take examples from the syrian desert. Appearently it is more high dev than rural areas in Anatolia.

 

[zeruosi]

No.

Gobi Desert - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I said in and arround the Gobi desert. Ignoring the desert itself, you can check any topographic map of China to realize how nonsensical the development map is:

China topographic map, elevation, terrain

Average elevation: 901 m • China • Visualization and sharing of free topographic maps.

en-gb.topographic-map.com

There is no reason for the inner mongolai to be that high dev, outperforming major agricultural and urban centres. If it was certain areas in inner Mongolai: Sure, but it is the entirety of inner Mongolia that is high dev. The area around Hulun Buir is barely populated. There is no major agriculture going on either, given its climate.

We can also take any other area of China. According to the dev map, any given province of any given area of China is more prosperous than pretty much most of earth. In return Sarai is black and Prag is green. Prag had a population of about 40k, Sarai of about 100k. Any given province in China is appearently more high dev than Sarai, but not as much as Prag. So the dev map doesnt follow any logic.

Mountains are more high dev than a metropolitan high populated city. Junggles are. Forests are. Barren areas are. Areas with no agriculture are. Literally everything is. You dont see the commecial approach of this? I am not saying China shouldnt be high dev, but the dev distribution is certainly overexaggerated and doesnt follow much of a logic. At least no sufficent logic that was provided by the devs.

Because the current map is a paradox where different places are created separately and then pieced together. (You can tell by comparing the size of provinces between Liaoning and mainland China)So the semi-finished products produced by Paradox now are quite rough and completely devoid of history (I completely don't understand why some non-existent Jurchen tribes were taken out of the territory of the Yuan Dynasty and placed separately on the map. They could have escaped from Mongol rule together after the outbreak of the Red Turban Army, but Paradox gave them birth 300 years earlier!)

 

[conqueror101]

What why does Ethiopia own all of Somalia? How am I suppose to be a pirate?

 

[Inzano]

Also: Portugal shouldn't be a single area. You should at least split it in half.

The south area could be names Algarve and Alentejo?

 

[Deleted user]

I see that the Purepecha religion is still the same of as Mixtec and Zapotec despite being one of the most distinct in Mesoamerica. If you keep this then merge all Christian regions with Zoroastrianism and make them the same religion to keep consistancy on how you’re grouping them. Though yes I’m aware that this is probably because Tinto haven’t reviewed the Mesoamerica map yet.

 

[zeruosi]

I see that the Purepecha religion is still the same of as Mixtec and Zapotec despite being one of the most distinct in Mesoamerica. If you keep this then merge all Christian regions with Zoroastrianism and make them the same religion to keep consistancy on how you’re grouping them. Though yes I’m aware that this is probably because Tinto haven’t reviewed the Mesoamerica map yet.

In fact, they have already done this to China and India, where dozens of different sects are covered by the foolish Hinduism and Mahayana Buddhism.

 

[Fawr]

Currently the algorithm shades markets in a country capital as the country color, and non-capital as a random similar colour. Since Westminster is the capital, the London market takes a random similar color. Not really WAD, I'll look into making it different so the market the capital belongs to is coloured in country colour, which I think makes more sense in this case.

Personally I find the market colours in Europe perfectly visible and workable. Having Dublin red and London brown is odd, but perfectly workable.

However the ones in non-European parts of the world suffer from too little contrast. Its particularly hard to tell the difference between different shades due to the way you also use shading to show market access. For example I think the colour contrast needs to be improved for the bunch of brown ones around Egypt/Mecca, or the blues in central Africa, or the purples in Iran, and some of the greens in China (particularly up north).

For some reason the ones east of India are also missing their names?

 

[Wolfgang Schmidt]

The Barents Sea (around Arangelsk) should proably be represented as internal. If nothing else, the place freezes over in winter, which has historically been important for Russia.

And what about the funny English expedition, which the English wanted to discover China but ended up in the area of the future Arkhangelsk and began diplomacy with the Moscow kingdom? Why did Ivan start a war with Livonia? For the sake of trade with England, and so ships went north...

 

[matfer13]

@Pavía Here's a review I made of the natural harbours of Italy:
-Venice, Chioggia, Udine and Aquileia all have very good harbours, these four locations share the Marano and Venetian lagoons which are arguably the best lagoons in the world for docking purposes, the Alps protect them from the northern winds, they are deep enough to be sailed by modern cargo boats(keep in mind that some parts the lagoons that are quite shallow nowdays used to be deeper in 1337 due to land reclamation projects done over time) and are quite big, the fact that they are lagoons naturally protects them from the worst waves of the Adriatic sea and the rivers that flow inside help them getting rid of some salt in the water therefore making the wood of the hulls last longer, Marano is overall smaller than Venice therefore offers less advantages
-Trieste, Rovinj, Pola and Rijeka also have small but very good harbours thanks to the natural bays of Istria and the gulf of Trieste(Aquileia could also take advantage of this if the have Monfalcone)
-the only decent harbour on the Northern Adriatic coast should be Ancona, while in the south Brindisi is by far the best one on the whole coastline followed by Otranto(which is part of Lecce) a small but good harbour and finally Manfredonia which although shallow is in a gulf
-Taranto is a very good harbour thanks to both the small sea and the big sea, the only other somewhat decent harbours on the Ionian sea are Gallipoli and Crotone which are quite deep but small
-Messina and Reggio Calabria are good harbours overall(specially Messina) but the strait is subject to strong winds, Syracuse and Trapani are also good, the only other noteworthy harbours on Sicily are Palermo, Mazara del Vallo and Pantelleria(if Lampedusa is considered part of it)
-Sardinia seems to be ok, but you should also add Alghero which is better than Sassari because of its nearby bay, Tortoli a decent harbour due to its small lagoon used as a port since Carthaginian times and finally Sant'Antioco(which is in Tratalias) should be just a bit worse than Cagliari
-In Corsica Sartene, Bastia and Vico have some pretty good harbour but the best one should be in Ajaccio due to its size followed by Bonifacio
-Vallo, Sala Consilina, Lagonegro and Scalea should all have some small amounts of suitability thanks to their very small harbours and position,
Naples is a very good harbour specially if we consider that Pozzuoli and Castellammare di Stabia are in the same location, Gaeta should also have a harbour which is slightly worse than Salerno
-Latium is quite bad in terms of natural harbours, the best one should be whichever location owns Ponza(most likely Velletri, but even then the island is quite small and far from the mainlamd
-Piombino is a good harbour by far the best in Tuscany thanks its bay and to the fact that the location contains Elba island, Sovana is in second place due to the lagoon of Orbetello not really being navigable but it still has two small bays, Pisa although was definitely better in 1337 than it is today does not have any good feature that make it a natural harbour, to help with that Pisa built a series of berths along the rivers and the coast nearby, one of this was Porto Pisano(literally Pisan Port) a settlement built near livorno on a lagoon that by 1337 was declining but still there, therefore Livorno should have a very low suitability which should disappear by 1500 AD
-And finally the region of Liguria has some good suitability all around because of its topography and deep waters, the best port should be Sarzana with La Spezia being one of the best harbours on the peninsula, followed by Genoa another good harbour, Nice should be around the same level as Genoa, then Lavagna and Savona should be pretty decent with their small bays and finally Albenga, Ventimiglia and Finale should have a bit of suitability

 

[fraughtGYRE]

Would you consider using "Munyambe" or a similar word for the Bantu religion? Like "Bantu", it is a linguistic reconstruction, but it actually refers to an object of worship (god/gods/supreme deity) whereas Bantu is commonly used to refer to the peoples.

Nyambe - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[SeaPirate]

Ethiopia never controlled that much Somali territory. It definitely did not have all of modern somaliland and the tip of the horn. East Africa might need a second look.