Tinto Maps Special Edition - 6th of January 2025 - The World

[Pavía]

Sooo, what building based countries occupy Northern Canada and Terrain Test Island?

Placeholder Inc.

 

[Song of Falcon and Owl]

It is long been a province of various nations controlling China, yes. They were not pacified by the han chinese until recent history. The mongols controlling them is not equal to chinese controlling them. Yuan is not China. It is part of chinese history. Likewise the Seljuks are part of Iraqi history, but not iraqi/arabic.

Even more harshly, Liaodong County was established before AD, and the region should have belonged to a Sinicized region until the reign of the later Jin, rather than thinking that it had always been a "Manchurian" - to admit Liaodong into this is itself a result of unjustified arrogance.
Let us count the Chinese rule in Liaodong, from the Yan of the Zhou Dynasty to the Qin Dynasty, then the Han Dynasty, and the Jin Dynasty also ruled for a period of time, until the Goguryeo, founded by the Fuyu people, took control. The Fuyu people did not completely change the local ethnic structure, and when the next era of great unification came, the Sui Dynasty was eager to reclaim the area, although it failed, but as a successor, the Tang Dynasty succeeded. Although Liaodong was lost in the later period of the Tang Dynasty, Liao and Jin, which soon emerged as a Sinicized regime, still maintained their rule over Liaodong. At this time, the Jurchens or Manchurians first appeared, and they were the founders of Jin. At the beginning of the game, I was disappointed to see that the foolish paradox directly crammed a bunch of Nuzhen culture into Liaodong, when in fact, the situation in Liaodong was described as "han 70 percent yi 30 percent", followed by Ming, well, eu4 clearly recognized the Ming rule in Liaodong, and then Qing, Later Jin carried out a series of very cruel policies in Liaodong, which eventually made Liaodong become juristic, until the modern immigration movement made Liaodong Sinicized. So the Chinese or the Han have always been in Liaodong, for thousands of years, and even if the supreme ruler is not a Han doesn't mean that the Han are absent here.

Well, if you're only talking about areas other than Liaodong, then I can apologize, but I still point out that the regime established by the Chinese did not possess so-called Manchuria until modern times, for example, the subsequent Ming Dynasty also ruled these areas in its heyday.

 

[Pavía]

1. Any chance we could get a non-compressed view on the .png of the locations map?
(You know, the colorvomit one like the provinces.bmp in EU4).

2. Any chance you can share the absolute and accurate northern and southern latitude extent of the map? (the 'bounding box')
My current guesstimations are:

• 75.0 North
• 56.5 South

I Would love to have a way to do some GIS analysis on the locations (like area size, modern pop distribution, most probable topography within a location,...), without having to trace all those bazillion locations by hand ^^ - I fully understand if this is a step too far though.
The latitudes would be great to create matching pixel-perfect exports

In any case, supercongrats to everyone for such a humongous amount of diligent work you've done so far!

1. Not at this stage yet, sorry.
2. Poking @Aldaron , I think he has that info stored somewhere (although he's today on sick leave, so you'll have to wait a few days).
3. Thanks a lot, and thanks to you for your detailed geographical feedback these past months.

 

[Apukispay]

I hope you are sarcastic, but in case you missed it the devs have said that any ownable location on the map must belong to a market and that it goes to the closest one, they also stated that market centers can only exist in towns and/or cities and that Sops don't interact with markets, therefore it doesn't matter if the east coast natives are part of the Maya market since it doesn't affect the game

Still it would make more sense if they were in the Cahokian market.

 

[GeneralNoob]

Even more harshly, Liaodong County was established before AD, and the region should have belonged to a Sinicized region until the reign of the later Jin, rather than thinking that it had always been a "Manchurian" - to admit Liaodong into this is itself a result of unjustified arrogance.
Let us count the Chinese rule in Liaodong, from the Yan of the Zhou Dynasty to the Qin Dynasty, then the Han Dynasty, and the Jin Dynasty also ruled for a period of time, until the Goguryeo, founded by the Fuyu people, took control. The Fuyu people did not completely change the local ethnic structure, and when the next era of great unification came, the Sui Dynasty was eager to reclaim the area, although it failed, but as a successor, the Tang Dynasty succeeded. Although Liaodong was lost in the later period of the Tang Dynasty, Liao and Jin, which soon emerged as a Sinicized regime, still maintained their rule over Liaodong. At this time, the Jurchens or Manchurians first appeared, and they were the founders of Jin. At the beginning of the game, I was disappointed to see that the foolish paradox directly crammed a bunch of Nuzhen culture into Liaodong, when in fact, the situation in Liaodong was described as "han 70 percent yi 30 percent", followed by Ming, well, eu4 clearly recognized the Ming rule in Liaodong, and then Qing, Later Jin carried out a series of very cruel policies in Liaodong, which eventually made Liaodong become juristic, until the modern immigration movement made Liaodong Sinicized. So the Chinese or the Han have always been in Liaodong, for thousands of years, and even if the supreme ruler is not a Han doesn't mean that the Han are absent here.

Well, if you're only talking about areas other than Liaodong, then I can apologize, but I still point out that the regime established by the Chinese did not possess so-called Manchuria until modern times, for example, the subsequent Ming Dynasty also ruled these areas in its heyday.

As I have mentioned in the other comment I was talking about everything north of Liaodong. I oversaw the "southern region" part of OP. I am not disputing anything about Liaodong.

 

[Vesca]

Johan's stand: The World.

 

[SebasR]

View attachment 1238996
We're also showing the map of European harbors, as that was not shown previously. Feel free to give your feedback!

The Iberian Peninsula harbors seems wrong to me. For example, weren't Seville and Cadiz the main ports to the New World for Spain? The Guadalquivir River is navigable up to Seville, similar to Hamburg (which is considered a great harbor) and Cadiz, from what I can see in Google Maps, is an insanely good harbor with a town placed in the perfect place to take advantage of it. It is no surprise that the French were unable to take the city during the Napoleonic Wars. In Portugal, Oporto, the mouth of the Duero River seems like an OK harbor, maybe not a great one, but at least in the middle. The Mediterranean coastline of Spain is completely empty of harbors (except for Cartagena and Algeciras), ignoring ports like Malaga, Almeria, Alicante, Valencia, Tarragona, and Barcelona. These places aren't great harbors but probably should be in the middle after all the crown of Aragon became a major player in the Mediterranean thanks to these ports.

The harbors on the coast of North Africa also seem wrong to me. There are so many amazing harbors there (Argel, Oran for example), and in the map only Tunis/Carthage is marked as a meh harbor. Considering how important these harbors were for the conflicts between the Spanish, Ottomans, and the Maghrebis pirates, it is disappointing to see none.

 

[crowdemon]

I look forward to the new series (Tinto flavour).

 

[weatheredflag]

Why is scandinavian one language? from what i understand a reasonable split in east norse happened around the 13th century, way before this game takes place, making danish, swedish and norwegian be three (while mutually intelligible to some degree) different languages. Especially considering these three are different countries at the start, why not give them their own language?

Yea I dont get this, Norwegian and danish are pretty much the same but thats only after the black death before that it was much more diverse, the opposite of how East slavs are portrayed here as they should be one language and at most several sub cultures

 

[Song of Falcon and Owl]

As I have mentioned in the other comment I was talking about everything north of Liaodong. I oversaw the "southern region" part of OP. I am not disputing anything about Liaodong.

I saw your follow-up statement, so I revised my speech and apologized in the last paragraph.

 

[Remnant One]

What? Almost every countries in north Italy are republic? Thing doesn't go like this in the 1337 drama in CK2! And in the 1337 mod of CK3 there are also no so many republic countries.

 

[Pavía]

could we possibly get a towns/cities map? or is that still far from being publishable

It still requires quite a fair amount of work to be publishable.

 

[Pavía]

View attachment 1240312
This tells me Paradox considers the Golden Horde to have the only acceptable form of Goverment, by their standards.

Apparently Northern Italian republics are a close second in their score, somehow.

Pax Mongolica FTW!

 

[Pavía]

Could we have a raw count of the number of provinces and areas? I recognise this will likely change multiple times before the game releases, but a count at least now would be nice

We'll reveal the map numbers (locations, provinces, cultures, religions, etc.) in the future when we have more settled numbers.

 

[Kaizer Prussian]

Hi! Thank you for your hard work!

I will try to add minor corrections in east Ukraine reg
ion (Mostly Steppes diary)
Areas arent as important for some people, but I believe you would connect a lot of stuff with them, events, requirements for formations and events to trigger. I believe AI will tend to follow areas borders. And of course history enthusiast would lite to recreate this closest option avialable
Her is how i tried to review it previously in steppes diary, now i saw some changes in this post and I decided to adjust it to new map. and provide more sources

So here is the most imporant stuff. I am very pleased to see that some changes happened on the left bank of dnieper and creation of Severia area to represent region connection but it need to be adjusted a bit, not it is a bit messy
Here lands regained by PLC in 1618, you could see right severia borders that align pretty well with my attempt

Here Severia can be seen as a Starodub polk (regiment) inside Cossack Hetmanate (1648-1764) practially unchanged during all this time except minor loss of whole area in 1658

And here is Hetmanate in it last year during ruling of last Hetman Kyrylo Rozumovsky, even after Ruin and loss of half of Cossack state Starodub/Severia remained in this shape.

later Hetmanate would be dissolved and Chernihiv Governorate would be created and this shape will last until formation of USSR in 1920s

next would be Sloboda Ukraine/Zaporizhzhia/Belgorod and Posad problem.

I fully understand this is higlly problematic region for maping even now, but right now its much worse. I propose a solution

I already draw how i propose it higher, alsot i tried draw areas over ones proposed by you, sorry for bad quality because of small pictures
Zaporizhzhia means essentialy Za-porohy so after threshold
what threshold? So in this region Dnipro/Dnieper river is extremely important, not only its big so its divide lands (Right and left banks) and allow to travel (In Rus times here was important trade route "from varangians to the greeeks") but because of thresholds, essentialy big rocks that make it hard to travel here. Thats what cossacks used, they made their bases/fortresses - siches. AFTER the thresholds to be more safe. Later they expaned left and rightwards because of fertile steppe chernozem lands where they lived.
This region was part of Commonwealth and Cossacks as (probably SoP in future) Zaporozhian host or Army existed and they declared themselves vassals to king of PLC.
Right now your area placement move Zaporizhzhia much further from actual porohy/threshold and Dnieper to North on the territory of actual Sloboda Ukraine while moving Sloboda Ukraine to Muscovy lands of Belgorod.

For Sloboda i recomend use of this map, i Tried my best with following your locations and cities

Area of Posad is extremely artificial, it looks like modern Donbass area (which didnt existed until XX centurty)
So i divided it between Zaporizhzhia (Eastern part including Luhansk) Sloboda Ukraine (North, reaching Luhansk) and west to Azov are and north west to the neighbouring area

All of this area adjustments are super important for realistic approach and for future events,missions and other things heavily connected with regions history

 

[Limyx826]

For harbours map mode, I recommend that the colour for good harbours ranges from green to white while non harbour locations will be black in colour.

 

[Booperboberino]

I notice in the culture map it looks like the diagonal lines for occupation/"there are other things here" look like they dont scale with the zoom you're at, so it's the same size on your screen regardless. It should instead change based on your zoom level. Does that make sense?
For example, when you are zoomed in you should see a certain number of medium sized lines, and when you zoom out you see the same number of much smaller lines in that same spot.
I hope that makes sense lol

 

[Zerodv]

Splitting it into two is somewhat ahistorical in that during the time the west-germanic dialect continuum at least on the continent was perceived as part of one language - that being "dutch" or whatever local variation of that word you'd prefer. I personally don't like calling it "german" either, as it evokes the wrong association with the modern standardised language, but it's fine as a compromise.
I'd prefer either calling it "dutch", or using some historical spelling variation that's broad enough to get the point across, like "duytsch", or maybe the latinised "teutonic"

splitting IberoRomance, Occitan-Catalan, Italian-Cisalpine, Czech and Polish and not spllitting German is just double standards.

 

[Kompiskaninen]

Plz give us Karlskrona

 

[Pavía]

Please, could you post the map with all the countries having their own colour too?

That's a fun enough request: