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Tinto Talks #10 - 1st of May 2024

Welcome to another Tinto Talks, the final of four on the economy system for our secret game with the code name “Project Caesar”.

Today we will talk about all the things related to trade, including markets, merchants and trades. This talk is heavy on tooltip screenshots, and a lot of concepts to digest, so I recommend checking it through multiple times.

Markets
Let's start with the markets themselves. These are dynamic and will change through the playthrough, as countries can create new markets and disband their old if they so desire.

Each market has a center in a location, and the owner of that location is in control over that market.

Every location and coastal seazone will belong to the most fitting market, which depends on the market attraction of the market, the distance between the location and the market center, diplomatic factors, and more.

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The Riga market has control over much of the Baltic region in the start..

A market has merchants, who have a power depending on buildings and maritime presence in the market, and a merchant capacity which depends on the infrastructure for trade that country has in that market. The Merchant Power impacts in which order exports from a market are executed, as there is not an endless supply of goods in a market. The Merchant Capacity impacts how much goods the merchants can ship.

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This is the source of the Hanseatic League’s merchant capacity in Riga.



As you can see in the market screenshot, every good has a local price, and a supply vs demand value as well, let's take a look at the beer price in the next tooltip.

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Cheap beer, must be paradise…

Prices change every month towards the Target Price, which depends on the supply and demand of the goods in the market, and the current price stability. Price stability can change through the ages as well.

Supply & Demand
The supply of each good in a market depends on several factors.
  • The output from RGO’s
  • The output from buildings
  • Base Production
  • Burgher Trades

So what is ‘Base Production’? Some goods like clay, lumber, sand and stone are produced in every market, without the need for specific RGO’s, even if an RGO with that raw material can produce much more, and there are buildings that can be built to provide these as well.

Also, your burghers will trade on their own, if they have the capacity for it. They will attempt to address needs within the market, and can trade in a slightly shorter range, thus enriching their estate. There are laws and privileges that impact them, like the “Trade Monopolies” estate privilege that the Hanseatic League has granted in the earlier screenshot, which reduces their own merchant capacity by 25% to increase the capacity of the burghers by 100%

So what about demand? This is primarily from the maintenance, input, and construction of buildings, recruiting and maintaining armies and navies, and the demands of the population, but there are more sources as well.

Of course, trades themselves impact supply and demand as well.

Trade
You can use your merchant capacity in a market to either export a good from that market, or import a good from another market. Of course that market needs to be within your trade range, which is not world-spanning in 1337.

A trade is a variable amount of goods shipped from one market to another market, purchasing it for the local price in the exporting market. The longer the distance between the markets, the more capacity each good will require to ship, and higher the maintenance costs will be.

Trades have an impact on the last land location they are in before leaving the market, and the first one they enter in the importing market, giving boosts in development to them over time. A trade always has to trace a path on the map.

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Our merchant power makes us get the amount of goods we want in Riga.

There are also the Sound Tolls, if you pass through Öresund or the Bosphorus to consider.

Diplomacy and Trade
There are many diplomatic factors that impact the trade and market mechanics of Project Caesar.

First of all, you can “Deny Market Access” to a nation owning a market, which will reduce the attraction of their markets on your locations, but also make anyone with merchants in those markets upset with you.

You can also request and/or offer market access preference making it likelier for a country’s locations to belong in a certain market.

If you dislike paying Sound Tolls, you can always try to ask for exemption for it through diplomacy with the country controlling the strait.

Some countries have isolated themselves completely, so you need to negotiate a specific exception to allow you to export or import from their markets.

There is also the possibility to embargo a country, which would block the merchants from that country to trade in your markets, and also to not be allowed to move through your country. Of course, this a legit casus belli, so use with care.

Other aspects to Trade
Each market can have specific goods banned for export or import, with one common example being that muslim markets will ban import and export of wine, beer and liquor.

We mentioned in an earlier Tinto Talks that Markets will have stockpiles, so that surplus can be stored for a rainy day. There are buildings that will increase the amount that can be stored.

There is also food in the markets, with prices adapting to the supply and demand of food as well.

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Västra Götaland är Sveriges Kornbod!

There are also automation options where you can assign trading completely to the AI. You can also lock some trades so that the AI will not interfere with them.

Stay tuned, next week we’ll be talking about mercenaries, levies and regulars!
 
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Not everyone is an north american.
What does this have to do with English? It is spoken natively in a variety of countries outside of North America - the UK, Australia, Nigeria, Singapore, Guyana (one example from every other continent, just for you. There are more.). The game, having most of its text in English, may also be expected to have all of its text in English.
 
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You might not be aware of this, but language changes over time. Once enough people start writing "Kyiv" in place of "Kiev," that will be the accepted spelling. And of course today you can, in most cases, use either form - people will understand you regardless. The point is, since Kyiv and Kiev are, in modern English equally valid (no matter what you, or I, or Ashlee Simpson think), "Kyiv" is completely acceptable to use, and does not detract from the fact that Venice is not called Venezia. On the other hand, of course, "Praha" is a completely valid counterpoint.

And I suggest you work on wherever your defensiveness and anger are coming from. The fact that you are so pressed about being "downvoted" is, quite frankly, embarrassing.
Implying I'm angry simply because I lament this situation doesn't mean I'm actually angry. You're welcome to keep throwing ad hominems at me, I don't care.
 
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And it was a wrong thing to do, the distinction of spelling between Kiev and Kyiv is nothing more a modern lens propagated by American proxy propaganda. It's inconsistent to justify it as localization when you can see on the map that Venice isn't spelt as Venexia or Venezia. But whatever, NAFOkids will downvote my posts because of a modern war making them all little zealous shills.
So why do you care? Kyiv is the official name of the Ukrainian capital, nothing to do with "American propaganda"
 
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Implying I'm angry simply because I lament this situation doesn't mean I'm actually angry. You're welcome to keep throwing ad hominems at me, I don't care.
Here's another ad hominem for you: acting "insulted" by an off-hand comment does not dispute in any way the argument itself. In fact, it normally means you have nothing to say in response.

You may continue to lament the infiltration of "American proxy propaganda," if you wish. That does not mean other people should automatically lament with you, or that game designers working for multinational corporations should keep in mind your reservations.
 
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Just a question but can AI or player create a seperate market in part of their country for bettering one side of the country by intentionaly making prices in it lower in expense of other. Think like making weapones cheaper in Anatolia and using just Anatolian bois and making it cheaper for country while making wood cheaper in Balkan one and getting to space with Greek bois
 
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Please please please please can we have the Venetian black sea trade post in Tana (azov) represented as being Venetian in this? Its been a painful innacuracy that's been going on in EU4 in far too long.

The history of Tana/Azov as a town based at the foot of the Don river is one that has a rich history of being one of the end routes of the spice road during times of instability in the middle and general routes that could bring eastern goods through to the big cities of Europe. An area of the Southern part of the Venetian Arsenal was also named after Tana being a Venetian colony built in 1206.

With the potential for the year of the game starting in 1337 as some have speculated over the maps as a point of standard.

Tana had been a growing town for some time and its more easily accessible location meant that it was starting to cause Genoese trade in Caffa problems as what was essentially a makeshift market trading settlement that would construct itself as the caravans arrived from east and ships arrived from the west.

In 1333 Uzbeg Khan fully invested in making it a permenant town under the control of Venice, both to balance power away from Genoa back to the Khanate as well as maintaining more control for themselves. The Venetian senate quickly took up the offer and maintained a permenant fronteir settlement. It had a good number of simple houses, as well as various docking spaces and moorings.

In 1341 Tana "collapsed" due to lack of proper garrisons as well as little interest of the Venetian senate to maintain law there. This was further worstened as a situation due to Uzbeg Khan's death. However the settlement still remained and was there to do business

1343 The Khanate became aware that various Genoese merchants were evading taxes, gifts and other offerings were given, and a dispatch of Armed galleys was sent from Venice. However relationships quickly soured, The Horde destroyed the settlement and the Merchants there fled to Caffa. Caffa was also bombarded and a full embargo of Italian merchants was given throughout the Horde.

1344 The Venetian Senate agreed with Genoa to Embargo the Horde until further notice.

1348 Venice was fully ejected from the Mongol lands in the black sea, however the settlement at Tana remained and was re-established soon after in 1350, still under Venetian de facto control, although the Venetian government made it clear the settlement was that of a commerce and not of Venetian territorial claims.

Some time between them it continued as a commercial operation until 1396 when it is noted by Andrea Giustinian that there was simply no settlement there, and had completely been wiped off the planet by a Mongol raid. when In 1397 a Venetian party asked to build another fortified town in the area, establishing Tana as the town it is known today, with the original fortifications that became the settlement known as the fort town of Azov.


I realise this is a little bit of a nerd out, but I hope it is helpful as evidence to properly establish a little market colony as its a huge part of the geopolitics of bringing the black death to europe as well as Italian/Mongol relationships of the era at the game start :)
 
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Why is it that costal sea tiles are coloured as being "inside" the trade route? Is that just aesthetic or does it have a mechanic relevance? ie trade can only travel through coloured zones.
TT6#:
As mentioned earlier, the maritime presence impacts the proximity calculations, but it also impacts the power of your merchants in the market the seazone is a part of.
 
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I noticed that the icon for food stockpile is a reused Eu4 icon for trade companies, Eu4 in turn reused a lot of sprites from the previous games, will this continue or is it just placeholder in this very unfinished UI?
very much placeholder
 
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Will there be a peace option to force a country in a peace deal to end the Sound Toll? That would be cool. I wanto to beat Denmark as Sweden to get an exception. Not only will it enrich me but it will weaken them as it will severely harm their income!
 
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If you own a province can you manually transfer the market that it is in or does that all happen dynamically? For example as Austria could you manually make all your provinces in the same market so that your homeland isn't split between markets? Or could you just create your own market in say Vienna, and what would be the process to do that?

It is all dynamic depending on factors you have some impact and control over, like diplomacy and infrastrucute.
 
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If England establish colonies on the American East coast, would these be part of the London market or would they form their own market?

their own, its too far away to be a part of the london market.
 
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their own, its too far away to be a part of the london market.
Will this happen by it self, or does someone have to put down the cash to build this new market?
Or does the natives have market already that your colony would just become a part of until you or your Colony Nation makes a new one?

I assume all location with pops would have access to a market.
 
Edit: I got the impression that each country will have a capped merchant capacity with a negligible maintenance since the cost was only .07 from Riga to London which is a fair distance. Is this correct, or will the maintenance get more significant with longer or inland routes?

Capacity depends on what you have built up, and the cost of capacity for goods depends on distance.
 
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