• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Tinto Talks #10 - 1st of May 2024

Welcome to another Tinto Talks, the final of four on the economy system for our secret game with the code name “Project Caesar”.

Today we will talk about all the things related to trade, including markets, merchants and trades. This talk is heavy on tooltip screenshots, and a lot of concepts to digest, so I recommend checking it through multiple times.

Markets
Let's start with the markets themselves. These are dynamic and will change through the playthrough, as countries can create new markets and disband their old if they so desire.

Each market has a center in a location, and the owner of that location is in control over that market.

Every location and coastal seazone will belong to the most fitting market, which depends on the market attraction of the market, the distance between the location and the market center, diplomatic factors, and more.

IND8u3KEluhwiu85x22WKoYosHcca0_GsOSQ4X3fkAUkxE5HJCluAOPf7Ndp1AOWs3SVq7COQGwn1pqsALYsFUh-JlKW2BQotToqtBQxdVQ_8qTRUrqrkEuG-tpOFKXY3jY2HcqGPDmkFV9dvc6vECg

The Riga market has control over much of the Baltic region in the start..

A market has merchants, who have a power depending on buildings and maritime presence in the market, and a merchant capacity which depends on the infrastructure for trade that country has in that market. The Merchant Power impacts in which order exports from a market are executed, as there is not an endless supply of goods in a market. The Merchant Capacity impacts how much goods the merchants can ship.

DmG80vDbiHg8Lz7za7ZygAL03fx0xES5mMUIPqvzcxicW20awRNeO77099TOeRNkoYxwYrsaiRThpDn_XPNE_mq3uP_Zz8YA5JbLICIemjYwsGEPRf3de9P8CXNI1JGpztSAT1PAPYjSUzinUKaVEQQ

This is the source of the Hanseatic League’s merchant capacity in Riga.



As you can see in the market screenshot, every good has a local price, and a supply vs demand value as well, let's take a look at the beer price in the next tooltip.

J88wyLaCAImVXdvbW7e4YTks4qTitOU--vFt8_SKhlFVS3LRU8H1uSurnqo-L28kbzZXSFTBoz23S9TT49UkpqMVps6KBNUSfw1TCRW2Wh8UIurvvmkxz0ufWPA3ZRugdLJtv2cRUSbrmOkyJ2NdojE

Cheap beer, must be paradise…

Prices change every month towards the Target Price, which depends on the supply and demand of the goods in the market, and the current price stability. Price stability can change through the ages as well.

Supply & Demand
The supply of each good in a market depends on several factors.
  • The output from RGO’s
  • The output from buildings
  • Base Production
  • Burgher Trades

So what is ‘Base Production’? Some goods like clay, lumber, sand and stone are produced in every market, without the need for specific RGO’s, even if an RGO with that raw material can produce much more, and there are buildings that can be built to provide these as well.

Also, your burghers will trade on their own, if they have the capacity for it. They will attempt to address needs within the market, and can trade in a slightly shorter range, thus enriching their estate. There are laws and privileges that impact them, like the “Trade Monopolies” estate privilege that the Hanseatic League has granted in the earlier screenshot, which reduces their own merchant capacity by 25% to increase the capacity of the burghers by 100%

So what about demand? This is primarily from the maintenance, input, and construction of buildings, recruiting and maintaining armies and navies, and the demands of the population, but there are more sources as well.

Of course, trades themselves impact supply and demand as well.

Trade
You can use your merchant capacity in a market to either export a good from that market, or import a good from another market. Of course that market needs to be within your trade range, which is not world-spanning in 1337.

A trade is a variable amount of goods shipped from one market to another market, purchasing it for the local price in the exporting market. The longer the distance between the markets, the more capacity each good will require to ship, and higher the maintenance costs will be.

Trades have an impact on the last land location they are in before leaving the market, and the first one they enter in the importing market, giving boosts in development to them over time. A trade always has to trace a path on the map.

N_IzZLynmh-xb_S63dKE5-bOopZ1LQo18PP8xrozl4i5Dpt78lHd2Z0gmu1gKrXelHOvD0weruSAlJYpUfks5RKKNw-U3J-mxFMV1XX88ULIXpfadMP6VBcm3FU70pb9pbyNOCxC_ewWSFWkOQcm3As

Our merchant power makes us get the amount of goods we want in Riga.

There are also the Sound Tolls, if you pass through Öresund or the Bosphorus to consider.

Diplomacy and Trade
There are many diplomatic factors that impact the trade and market mechanics of Project Caesar.

First of all, you can “Deny Market Access” to a nation owning a market, which will reduce the attraction of their markets on your locations, but also make anyone with merchants in those markets upset with you.

You can also request and/or offer market access preference making it likelier for a country’s locations to belong in a certain market.

If you dislike paying Sound Tolls, you can always try to ask for exemption for it through diplomacy with the country controlling the strait.

Some countries have isolated themselves completely, so you need to negotiate a specific exception to allow you to export or import from their markets.

There is also the possibility to embargo a country, which would block the merchants from that country to trade in your markets, and also to not be allowed to move through your country. Of course, this a legit casus belli, so use with care.

Other aspects to Trade
Each market can have specific goods banned for export or import, with one common example being that muslim markets will ban import and export of wine, beer and liquor.

We mentioned in an earlier Tinto Talks that Markets will have stockpiles, so that surplus can be stored for a rainy day. There are buildings that will increase the amount that can be stored.

There is also food in the markets, with prices adapting to the supply and demand of food as well.

ZZti8FBtbpZfZ0U5VjmqbP2fguK-coTm8FO0nn0aMPPpb0wJThjX2_XmvKwD-rJ4ru22FZWqQgQ55P1QfzDdqjx5C_mknn5KpbaG_9TLc3RRBXLDsVz9Q6oUe3zZNSNmbb2OI6gk3JlumV6vPoukAWE

Västra Götaland är Sveriges Kornbod!

There are also automation options where you can assign trading completely to the AI. You can also lock some trades so that the AI will not interfere with them.

Stay tuned, next week we’ll be talking about mercenaries, levies and regulars!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • 266Love
  • 175Like
  • 14
  • 3
  • 2Haha
  • 2
Reactions:
I do not care for modern politics. It is Kiev and Kievan Rus, that's how it's spelt in English.

Bro, they changed Kiev to Kyiv in CK3 even though the province's culture in that game is Russian. That's a ship that's already sailed.

Now, I do hope this means they will put more effort in researching indigenous names for American (both North and South) locations/provinces. They're annoying to find but from my experience you can at least find related/historical toponyms at the province level.
 
This might be a tad bit unrelated but I'll ask anyway.
Will there be any way to enable fantasy nations in the base game, without changing the entire new world? As you might guess, I have been inspred by the "random new world" feature in EU4. What I'm trying to describe is that feature but without having to replace the original American continents.

For example, Ásatrú pagans still populating the colony (or colonies) of Vinland, now known as newfoundland.

Or a small landmass in the middle of atlantic which would only appear if you enabled it at the start of the game but if you did, could be explored to find the ruins of Atlantis, now once again emerged from the waves.


I really like the more fantsy parts of EU4 but when I play with them I often find myself missing the normal new world.


Maybe this feature could also enable new trade-nodes? Like a Vinland dominated one that could be used to easily connect the old world with the new? It would probably need some tweaking first so it doesn't become too overpowered however...
 
  • 1
  • 1
Reactions:
While the game seems to be more and more unpersonal, which for me is a shame, with so many renown figures during the time covered, the systems and mechanics are looking very good!

Nations and States seem to be very dynamic, and with plenty of options to deal with the dynamic opportunities and challenges it brings.
I just imagine making a personal union diplomatic move just to get that sweet sweet silk. XD
Or being the greatest bastard in history and war-forcing foreign states market opens so I can sell them good ol' drugs and alcohol, alongside a bit of religion.

So up next we will be seeing armies? Hope we get it straight, Imperator for me had a good way to do it. Either way, eager for it
 
Bro, they changed Kiev to Kyiv in CK3 even though the province's culture in that game is Russian. That's a ship that's already sailed.
And it was a wrong thing to do, the distinction of spelling between Kiev and Kyiv is nothing more a modern lens propagated by American proxy propaganda. It's inconsistent to justify it as localization when you can see on the map that Venice isn't spelt as Venexia or Venezia. But whatever, NAFOkids will downvote my posts because of a modern war making them all little zealous shills.
 
  • 15
  • 8
  • 1Haha
Reactions:
And it was a wrong thing to do, the distinction of spelling between Kiev and Kyiv is nothing more a modern lens propagated by American proxy propaganda. It's inconsistent to justify it as localization when you can see on the map that Venice isn't spelt as Venexia or Venezia. But whatever, NAFOkids will downvote my posts because of a modern war making them all little zealous shills.

I know, and I'm telling you it's useless to get mad over it if this change passed through even in CK3. There are many other inconsistencies in naming standards, you'll have to give this one a pass.
 
  • 3Like
Reactions:
I assume that with dynamic trade markets there won’t be an equivalent to EU4s trade goods being transported along trade routes on caravans and ships? If that’s something you could figure out it would look absolutely beautiful I’m sure. I’ve already spent to many hours following traders all over the world in eu4.
 
  • 1Haha
Reactions:
That's how it's spelled in russian bro. It's Kyiv and Kyivan Rus. By the name of the guy who founded the city, Kyi.
I do not play in English localization so I may have no stand to say, but considering that English localization is the original localization of PjCsr, and obviously there’s a brain in any skull of tinto staff, so I believe that Tinto would make the best choice.

Edit: unless they hire any AI.

So I do not think that it’s any big deal…
 
(in response to "pop needs")
in a later dd
I see my questions on alcohol must wait until at least that DD.
(in response to "merchant power")
its an arms race

You can transport 0.21 Silk if you so desire.
Hypothetical market: there are only 2 countries involved. The market supplies 10 units of Diamond. Both countries want that good at top priority and they both have enough Merchant Capacity to transport all 10 units if there was no competitor. Country A has 60% Merchant Power and B has 40%.

How many units of Diamond does Country A take away while that ratio of merchant power persists? Are these trade details calculated once per month?
 
  • 2Like
Reactions:
And it was a wrong thing to do, the distinction of spelling between Kiev and Kyiv is nothing more a modern lens propagated by American proxy propaganda. It's inconsistent to justify it as localization when you can see on the map that Venice isn't spelt as Venexia or Venezia. But whatever, NAFOkids will downvote my posts because of a modern war making them all little zealous shills.
You might not be aware of this, but language changes over time. Once enough people start writing "Kyiv" in place of "Kiev," that will be the accepted spelling. And of course today you can, in most cases, use either form - people will understand you regardless. The point is, since Kyiv and Kiev are, in modern English equally valid (no matter what you, or I, or Ashlee Simpson think), "Kyiv" is completely acceptable to use, and does not detract from the fact that Venice is not called Venezia. On the other hand, of course, "Praha" is a completely valid counterpoint.

And I suggest you work on wherever your defensiveness and anger are coming from. The fact that you are so pressed about being "downvoted" is, quite frankly, embarrassing.
 
  • 7Like
  • 6
  • 2
Reactions:
I like that countries can be split between multiple markets, and that membership in a market is based on location. I'm excited that Project Caesar won't have goods teleporting across the world like in Vic 3 because two countries are in the same market!
 
  • 2Haha
Reactions:
Could we hear how the language mechanic works? Or is that for a future dev diary?

Does "Baltic" as the dominant language of the Riga market refer to Baltic languages or Baltic German? I would hope the latter.

What's up with London + Paris, Praha + Krakow, Paris + Koln intersecting? How does that even happen?
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: