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Tinto Talks #10 - 1st of May 2024

Welcome to another Tinto Talks, the final of four on the economy system for our secret game with the code name “Project Caesar”.

Today we will talk about all the things related to trade, including markets, merchants and trades. This talk is heavy on tooltip screenshots, and a lot of concepts to digest, so I recommend checking it through multiple times.

Markets
Let's start with the markets themselves. These are dynamic and will change through the playthrough, as countries can create new markets and disband their old if they so desire.

Each market has a center in a location, and the owner of that location is in control over that market.

Every location and coastal seazone will belong to the most fitting market, which depends on the market attraction of the market, the distance between the location and the market center, diplomatic factors, and more.

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The Riga market has control over much of the Baltic region in the start..

A market has merchants, who have a power depending on buildings and maritime presence in the market, and a merchant capacity which depends on the infrastructure for trade that country has in that market. The Merchant Power impacts in which order exports from a market are executed, as there is not an endless supply of goods in a market. The Merchant Capacity impacts how much goods the merchants can ship.

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This is the source of the Hanseatic League’s merchant capacity in Riga.



As you can see in the market screenshot, every good has a local price, and a supply vs demand value as well, let's take a look at the beer price in the next tooltip.

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Cheap beer, must be paradise…

Prices change every month towards the Target Price, which depends on the supply and demand of the goods in the market, and the current price stability. Price stability can change through the ages as well.

Supply & Demand
The supply of each good in a market depends on several factors.
  • The output from RGO’s
  • The output from buildings
  • Base Production
  • Burgher Trades

So what is ‘Base Production’? Some goods like clay, lumber, sand and stone are produced in every market, without the need for specific RGO’s, even if an RGO with that raw material can produce much more, and there are buildings that can be built to provide these as well.

Also, your burghers will trade on their own, if they have the capacity for it. They will attempt to address needs within the market, and can trade in a slightly shorter range, thus enriching their estate. There are laws and privileges that impact them, like the “Trade Monopolies” estate privilege that the Hanseatic League has granted in the earlier screenshot, which reduces their own merchant capacity by 25% to increase the capacity of the burghers by 100%

So what about demand? This is primarily from the maintenance, input, and construction of buildings, recruiting and maintaining armies and navies, and the demands of the population, but there are more sources as well.

Of course, trades themselves impact supply and demand as well.

Trade
You can use your merchant capacity in a market to either export a good from that market, or import a good from another market. Of course that market needs to be within your trade range, which is not world-spanning in 1337.

A trade is a variable amount of goods shipped from one market to another market, purchasing it for the local price in the exporting market. The longer the distance between the markets, the more capacity each good will require to ship, and higher the maintenance costs will be.

Trades have an impact on the last land location they are in before leaving the market, and the first one they enter in the importing market, giving boosts in development to them over time. A trade always has to trace a path on the map.

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Our merchant power makes us get the amount of goods we want in Riga.

There are also the Sound Tolls, if you pass through Öresund or the Bosphorus to consider.

Diplomacy and Trade
There are many diplomatic factors that impact the trade and market mechanics of Project Caesar.

First of all, you can “Deny Market Access” to a nation owning a market, which will reduce the attraction of their markets on your locations, but also make anyone with merchants in those markets upset with you.

You can also request and/or offer market access preference making it likelier for a country’s locations to belong in a certain market.

If you dislike paying Sound Tolls, you can always try to ask for exemption for it through diplomacy with the country controlling the strait.

Some countries have isolated themselves completely, so you need to negotiate a specific exception to allow you to export or import from their markets.

There is also the possibility to embargo a country, which would block the merchants from that country to trade in your markets, and also to not be allowed to move through your country. Of course, this a legit casus belli, so use with care.

Other aspects to Trade
Each market can have specific goods banned for export or import, with one common example being that muslim markets will ban import and export of wine, beer and liquor.

We mentioned in an earlier Tinto Talks that Markets will have stockpiles, so that surplus can be stored for a rainy day. There are buildings that will increase the amount that can be stored.

There is also food in the markets, with prices adapting to the supply and demand of food as well.

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Västra Götaland är Sveriges Kornbod!

There are also automation options where you can assign trading completely to the AI. You can also lock some trades so that the AI will not interfere with them.

Stay tuned, next week we’ll be talking about mercenaries, levies and regulars!
 
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Ok, so in any case, Say as Sweden, what's stopping me from queueing up the construction of 100 tanneries and eating up all the stone in the Riga market?
The market access of the locations you queue those building up in? If other locations have better access and the stone becomes scarce from your extra demand, you aren't guaranteed to be able to progress on your build.
 
You have to update your knowledge of some English toponyms.
According to the British embassy in Ukraine, they are located in Kyiv. "Kiev" is an outdated colonial toponym.

The issue is that we have Köln Praha Naples and Venice. I don't think Kyiv is the issue.

Is it Cologne Prague Naples Venice and Moscow or is it Köln Praha Napoli Venezia and Moskva?

Why isn't it consistent?
 
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Good news: we get the map of HRE!

Bad news: sharp borders of trade zone come back in some way!

Good news: they are DYNAMIC!!!
 
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it will go what is the closest path between the market centers. so british imports from canada and such may most likely enter through Liverpool? Swedish imports from outside the baltic when they form their own market would most likely enter through Göteborg
Would this simulate how important locations of import grow into cities, like göteborg did? So if Sweden owned like the entirety to scandinavia and imports went through jutland or stavagner, göteborg woudn't be as likely to grow into a city, because ther would be no need to build trade buildings there?
 
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The issue is that we have Köln Praha Naples and Venice.

Is it Cologne Prague Naples and Venice or is it Köln Praha Napoli and Venezia?

Why isn't it consistent?
I prefer the second set if you ask me, it is more immersive.
And regarding Kyiv in this situation: Köln is written with a latin alphabet, Київ with a cyrillic one. Which is why we have a german toponym for Köln, but an english one for Kyiv.
 
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Also will rice be separate from sturdy grain?

In theory beer shouldn’t be able to travel far as it wasn’t until the adding of extra hops for the EIC (the IPA) that long voyages for beer became feasible. Maybe it could be attached to a technology level?
I tend to drink beers from breweries that have been founded some 300 years before the start date of this game of original recipes with an alcohol percentage higher than wines, so should we also not be able travel with wine. Not all beer is the same. And IPA is traditionally brewed with a higher alcohol percentage for long distance travel and than watered down at the point of arrival.
 
I prefer the second set if you ask me, it is more immersive.
And regarding Kyiv in this situation: Köln is written with a latin alphabet, Київ with a cyrillic one. Which is why we have a german toponym for Köln, but an english one for Kyiv.
I edited the example adding Moscow and Moskva. What is the reason for this then?
Why Seville and not Sevilla
Why Bordeaux and not Bordèu?

Edit: I don't mind either, but be consistent. Everything in English or everything in their original language.
 
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Is it possible for you to change the colour of the ocean in this map mode? The black ocean combined with bright spots in the middle of each market gives a very modern, neon look that doesnt fit the games timeframe. Additionally it will make swapping map modes from political to trade less cohesive.
 
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I slightly favor using the "standard modern English" placenames rather than localized endonyms. The latter are fine for places that use the latin alphabet at least. But I remember in the MEIOU & Taxes mod city names across India and China/Japan used obscure romanization that are used almost no-where else. The game should facilitate the player learning and getting interested in history, so if they decide to look up the IRL history of the important city they just conquered and get no results on google because the in game name is trying its hardest to capture a now-moribund local dialect for "immersion", that is not good.
 
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For HIP back in the day, we went with the localized endonyms for every title and location.

We also had a very popular submod, SED ("Speak English, Dammit!") that used "standard modern English" for everything.

There's no reason we can't have both! Just... this weird fusion is a bit off-putting. Praha and Moscow on the same map, rather than Prague and Moscow or Praha and Moskva?
 
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The Hanseatic League merchant capacity gets a bonus from "Hanseatic Kontor" in several locations (mostly Estonian). Why is Kontor (Office) in Swedish? Is that localized to Swedish speaking Estonia or Swedish speaking League or is Kontor going to be a special Baltic or Hanseatic building?
 
What will happen when a market is dissolved? Integrated into neighbors?