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Tinto Talks #10 - 1st of May 2024

Welcome to another Tinto Talks, the final of four on the economy system for our secret game with the code name “Project Caesar”.

Today we will talk about all the things related to trade, including markets, merchants and trades. This talk is heavy on tooltip screenshots, and a lot of concepts to digest, so I recommend checking it through multiple times.

Markets
Let's start with the markets themselves. These are dynamic and will change through the playthrough, as countries can create new markets and disband their old if they so desire.

Each market has a center in a location, and the owner of that location is in control over that market.

Every location and coastal seazone will belong to the most fitting market, which depends on the market attraction of the market, the distance between the location and the market center, diplomatic factors, and more.

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The Riga market has control over much of the Baltic region in the start..

A market has merchants, who have a power depending on buildings and maritime presence in the market, and a merchant capacity which depends on the infrastructure for trade that country has in that market. The Merchant Power impacts in which order exports from a market are executed, as there is not an endless supply of goods in a market. The Merchant Capacity impacts how much goods the merchants can ship.

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This is the source of the Hanseatic League’s merchant capacity in Riga.



As you can see in the market screenshot, every good has a local price, and a supply vs demand value as well, let's take a look at the beer price in the next tooltip.

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Cheap beer, must be paradise…

Prices change every month towards the Target Price, which depends on the supply and demand of the goods in the market, and the current price stability. Price stability can change through the ages as well.

Supply & Demand
The supply of each good in a market depends on several factors.
  • The output from RGO’s
  • The output from buildings
  • Base Production
  • Burgher Trades

So what is ‘Base Production’? Some goods like clay, lumber, sand and stone are produced in every market, without the need for specific RGO’s, even if an RGO with that raw material can produce much more, and there are buildings that can be built to provide these as well.

Also, your burghers will trade on their own, if they have the capacity for it. They will attempt to address needs within the market, and can trade in a slightly shorter range, thus enriching their estate. There are laws and privileges that impact them, like the “Trade Monopolies” estate privilege that the Hanseatic League has granted in the earlier screenshot, which reduces their own merchant capacity by 25% to increase the capacity of the burghers by 100%

So what about demand? This is primarily from the maintenance, input, and construction of buildings, recruiting and maintaining armies and navies, and the demands of the population, but there are more sources as well.

Of course, trades themselves impact supply and demand as well.

Trade
You can use your merchant capacity in a market to either export a good from that market, or import a good from another market. Of course that market needs to be within your trade range, which is not world-spanning in 1337.

A trade is a variable amount of goods shipped from one market to another market, purchasing it for the local price in the exporting market. The longer the distance between the markets, the more capacity each good will require to ship, and higher the maintenance costs will be.

Trades have an impact on the last land location they are in before leaving the market, and the first one they enter in the importing market, giving boosts in development to them over time. A trade always has to trace a path on the map.

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Our merchant power makes us get the amount of goods we want in Riga.

There are also the Sound Tolls, if you pass through Öresund or the Bosphorus to consider.

Diplomacy and Trade
There are many diplomatic factors that impact the trade and market mechanics of Project Caesar.

First of all, you can “Deny Market Access” to a nation owning a market, which will reduce the attraction of their markets on your locations, but also make anyone with merchants in those markets upset with you.

You can also request and/or offer market access preference making it likelier for a country’s locations to belong in a certain market.

If you dislike paying Sound Tolls, you can always try to ask for exemption for it through diplomacy with the country controlling the strait.

Some countries have isolated themselves completely, so you need to negotiate a specific exception to allow you to export or import from their markets.

There is also the possibility to embargo a country, which would block the merchants from that country to trade in your markets, and also to not be allowed to move through your country. Of course, this a legit casus belli, so use with care.

Other aspects to Trade
Each market can have specific goods banned for export or import, with one common example being that muslim markets will ban import and export of wine, beer and liquor.

We mentioned in an earlier Tinto Talks that Markets will have stockpiles, so that surplus can be stored for a rainy day. There are buildings that will increase the amount that can be stored.

There is also food in the markets, with prices adapting to the supply and demand of food as well.

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Västra Götaland är Sveriges Kornbod!

There are also automation options where you can assign trading completely to the AI. You can also lock some trades so that the AI will not interfere with them.

Stay tuned, next week we’ll be talking about mercenaries, levies and regulars!
 
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Reading all the developer replies and this is amazing. Johan scrapped the trade mini game from EU4 and made actual trade lol. This game is shaping up nicely.
 
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Sounds absolutely great. Will we also be able to save trading automation settings from one campaign to another? With the high amount of trade goods to manage, this would prove useful quite quickly.
 
Can you force in peace deals:
1-being granted market preference,
2-revoking another country market banned good
3 - force naother country to ban a good
4 - tolls exemptions
 
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currently straits only..
Assuming that major trade hubs (like London and Riga in the game above) gain development by virtue of receiving imports and providing exports, how does this affect trade hubs on land routes like Samarkand, Damascus, Tabriz etc.? Also, does it account for ports or landmark cities that would be used as famous stops along trade routes like the silk roads?
 
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I'm just happy trade is automated. I'm gonna be honest with you guys. I could give less of a horses ass how trade works in EU5. I want nothing to do with it.

Victoria 3 has utterly destroyed any desire I have to play with supply and demand. Even if it comes out that Project Tinto's trade system is fun to play with, I just don't want anything to do with it. Even when I play EU4, I don't deal with trade because of how hard I've been emotionally scarred by Victoria 3.

The wounds upon my psyche are deep and foreboding. And nothing can fix it. I just want trade to go away.
 
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What is stopping the country with the most merchant power in a market from gameruining every other nation in the market and using up all the resources in it for themselves?
 
But those that make it an English/London market? Wool was basically the only export out of England/London and not by English traders but by Flemish traders who were also the intermediairies for most imports into London to the point that the trade hub in London was actually referred to as rhe Flemish Hanse in London. Shouldn't it therefore be called the Bruges market being the biggest trade Flemish trade city at that time? At the startdate the English are isolationists so that should be represented correctly. So either they controle just an insular fully landbased market and the rest becomes a Flemish market or the entire current market becomes a Flemish market.
I certainly wouldn't be opposed to it being called the bruges market :p
 
What is stopping the country with the most merchant power in a market from gameruining every other nation and using up all the resources in that market for themselves?
Those other countries could just leave you alone if you make that a better option for them. And they'd probably nab some border locations with them.
 
This makes me hopeful that we'll be able to get official game converters in the future, so we can play from Middle Ages to the Cold War.
 
What is stopping the country with the most merchant power in a market from gameruining every other nation and using up all the resources in that market for themselves?
Trades only happen AFTER all internal demands in the market are satisfied.
Merchant power is only used for trades, not intra-market access. So you can't export away everything even if you have the power or the capacity for it, because the game won't allow it.
 
Merchant power is only used for trades, not intra-market access. So you can't export away everything even if you have the power or the capacity for it, because the game won't allow it.
Ok, so in any case, Say as Sweden, what's stopping me from queueing up the construction of 100 tanneries and eating up all the stone in the Riga market?
 
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yes.

its not fun to see the cities you import goods from be ravaged, and not able to restore their output for many years.
On the other side is war profiteering a thing, as Flanders are you able to sell weapons to both the English and the French and make them reliant on your exports. Can you also then cripple their armies at will by embargoing them, because if so I'm gonna have some amazing tall playthroughs.
 
Unless you make your country into a trader nation, you don't need to care all that much about trade.

Some players run with fully automated trade.
Some do depending on country and situation, as you can automate most and just lock certain specific trades to not be ai controlled.
Some love the manual micromanaging.
I assume this will be revealed in the somewhat near future but is there going to be any AI for player armies, and if so, will the specific units/scale at which the player inputs their commands be togglable?