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Tinto Talks #10 - 1st of May 2024

Welcome to another Tinto Talks, the final of four on the economy system for our secret game with the code name “Project Caesar”.

Today we will talk about all the things related to trade, including markets, merchants and trades. This talk is heavy on tooltip screenshots, and a lot of concepts to digest, so I recommend checking it through multiple times.

Markets
Let's start with the markets themselves. These are dynamic and will change through the playthrough, as countries can create new markets and disband their old if they so desire.

Each market has a center in a location, and the owner of that location is in control over that market.

Every location and coastal seazone will belong to the most fitting market, which depends on the market attraction of the market, the distance between the location and the market center, diplomatic factors, and more.

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The Riga market has control over much of the Baltic region in the start..

A market has merchants, who have a power depending on buildings and maritime presence in the market, and a merchant capacity which depends on the infrastructure for trade that country has in that market. The Merchant Power impacts in which order exports from a market are executed, as there is not an endless supply of goods in a market. The Merchant Capacity impacts how much goods the merchants can ship.

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This is the source of the Hanseatic League’s merchant capacity in Riga.



As you can see in the market screenshot, every good has a local price, and a supply vs demand value as well, let's take a look at the beer price in the next tooltip.

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Cheap beer, must be paradise…

Prices change every month towards the Target Price, which depends on the supply and demand of the goods in the market, and the current price stability. Price stability can change through the ages as well.

Supply & Demand
The supply of each good in a market depends on several factors.
  • The output from RGO’s
  • The output from buildings
  • Base Production
  • Burgher Trades

So what is ‘Base Production’? Some goods like clay, lumber, sand and stone are produced in every market, without the need for specific RGO’s, even if an RGO with that raw material can produce much more, and there are buildings that can be built to provide these as well.

Also, your burghers will trade on their own, if they have the capacity for it. They will attempt to address needs within the market, and can trade in a slightly shorter range, thus enriching their estate. There are laws and privileges that impact them, like the “Trade Monopolies” estate privilege that the Hanseatic League has granted in the earlier screenshot, which reduces their own merchant capacity by 25% to increase the capacity of the burghers by 100%

So what about demand? This is primarily from the maintenance, input, and construction of buildings, recruiting and maintaining armies and navies, and the demands of the population, but there are more sources as well.

Of course, trades themselves impact supply and demand as well.

Trade
You can use your merchant capacity in a market to either export a good from that market, or import a good from another market. Of course that market needs to be within your trade range, which is not world-spanning in 1337.

A trade is a variable amount of goods shipped from one market to another market, purchasing it for the local price in the exporting market. The longer the distance between the markets, the more capacity each good will require to ship, and higher the maintenance costs will be.

Trades have an impact on the last land location they are in before leaving the market, and the first one they enter in the importing market, giving boosts in development to them over time. A trade always has to trace a path on the map.

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Our merchant power makes us get the amount of goods we want in Riga.

There are also the Sound Tolls, if you pass through Öresund or the Bosphorus to consider.

Diplomacy and Trade
There are many diplomatic factors that impact the trade and market mechanics of Project Caesar.

First of all, you can “Deny Market Access” to a nation owning a market, which will reduce the attraction of their markets on your locations, but also make anyone with merchants in those markets upset with you.

You can also request and/or offer market access preference making it likelier for a country’s locations to belong in a certain market.

If you dislike paying Sound Tolls, you can always try to ask for exemption for it through diplomacy with the country controlling the strait.

Some countries have isolated themselves completely, so you need to negotiate a specific exception to allow you to export or import from their markets.

There is also the possibility to embargo a country, which would block the merchants from that country to trade in your markets, and also to not be allowed to move through your country. Of course, this a legit casus belli, so use with care.

Other aspects to Trade
Each market can have specific goods banned for export or import, with one common example being that muslim markets will ban import and export of wine, beer and liquor.

We mentioned in an earlier Tinto Talks that Markets will have stockpiles, so that surplus can be stored for a rainy day. There are buildings that will increase the amount that can be stored.

There is also food in the markets, with prices adapting to the supply and demand of food as well.

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Västra Götaland är Sveriges Kornbod!

There are also automation options where you can assign trading completely to the AI. You can also lock some trades so that the AI will not interfere with them.

Stay tuned, next week we’ll be talking about mercenaries, levies and regulars!
 
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Can a center of a existing market change? for example the center is currently in London but because the netherlands becomes extremely powerful in said market the center moves to amsterdam
That's not how markets work. Markets at their core are just one city and surrounding locations are then included in that city's market based on the market's power. So whoever controls Amsterdam can create a market there and depending on its power, it could take over most of the locations in London's market.
 
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We see that there's a civil war in Scotland? As these games tend to focus on the player being the 'state' does that mean we can allow the rival faction in a civil war to win and we can choose to swap to them? Or does it end our game?

In Victoria 3 the choice is made when the rebellion occurs it would be gamey to allow you to lose on purpose to a beneficial yet weak rebellion, if you want to play as them you'd have to play as them and overcome the odds
 
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How do you create a new market? What does it costs? A market can be created inside the land of another market?

currently it costs 1000 gold, but nothing is set in stone yet.. all values are placeholders as we test.

it can be done in any town or city you own.
 
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You can try to deny market access to London and give market preference to Paris.. in this case its rather likely all your locations move to Paris. Also its probably a loss, as there is a lot of wool in England, and you got a nice cloth industry, and you may not be able to import any from London, as you probably have very very low merchant power there.
If I remember correctly, that's basically what really happened during the 100 year war and allowed the Burgundians to swoop most of them up
 
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So you're confirming that there is absolutely nothing hardcoded (not even remotely) to prevent an american nation from making trade flow "in reverse" from Europe to the Americas?

no
 
Do pops have wealth level like in Vicky 3? That is if they have 10% higher income, then their wealth level goes up by 1 and consume goods in slightly different amounts.

no
 
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How will the market of large trans continental empires look like? Will it be a single unified market or a sub-market that overlord will have higher controll of? Think like playing british empire and having colonies in america and trade companies in africa, south east asia?
 
1. Does Infrastructure (Roads/Ports) impact trade efficiency? So if I want to trade as Spain with France a lot (Higher Volumes because i loke them), and build a strong road network to france. Will it help make the trade more effective?

yes
 
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"Of course that market needs to be within your trade range, which is not world-spanning in 1337."

Portugal had a presence in the flanders market since the late 14th century.

I assume that the range won't be locked to your regional neighbours if you have a coastal nation?

That's not the same as Flanders being in or able to be part of the same market as Portugal, Portuguese merchants can still trade between their market and the one Flanders is in.
 
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can't speak for the entire lowlands but flanders (and to an extent brabant) were quite dependent on english wool for their cloth industry at the time. Some flemish cities even sided with the english during the 100 years war for precisely this reason.
But those that make it an English/London market? Wool was basically the only export out of England/London and not by English traders but by Flemish traders who were also the intermediairies for most imports into London to the point that the trade hub in London was actually referred to as rhe Flemish Hanse in London. Shouldn't it therefore be called the Bruges market being the biggest trade Flemish trade city at that time? At the startdate the English are isolationists so that should be represented correctly. So either they controle just an insular fully landbased market and the rest becomes a Flemish market or the entire current market becomes a Flemish market.
 
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Since you mentioned Civil wars being their own countries, is it going to be like imperator Rome where you have to occupy every single province and flip it to your side or will it be more like ck3 where you just need to collect enough warscore to end the civil war?
 
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What else does the merchant power do? Is it worth getting more power after being the highest in a market?

its an arms race
 
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