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Tinto Talks #10 - 1st of May 2024

Welcome to another Tinto Talks, the final of four on the economy system for our secret game with the code name “Project Caesar”.

Today we will talk about all the things related to trade, including markets, merchants and trades. This talk is heavy on tooltip screenshots, and a lot of concepts to digest, so I recommend checking it through multiple times.

Markets
Let's start with the markets themselves. These are dynamic and will change through the playthrough, as countries can create new markets and disband their old if they so desire.

Each market has a center in a location, and the owner of that location is in control over that market.

Every location and coastal seazone will belong to the most fitting market, which depends on the market attraction of the market, the distance between the location and the market center, diplomatic factors, and more.

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The Riga market has control over much of the Baltic region in the start..

A market has merchants, who have a power depending on buildings and maritime presence in the market, and a merchant capacity which depends on the infrastructure for trade that country has in that market. The Merchant Power impacts in which order exports from a market are executed, as there is not an endless supply of goods in a market. The Merchant Capacity impacts how much goods the merchants can ship.

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This is the source of the Hanseatic League’s merchant capacity in Riga.



As you can see in the market screenshot, every good has a local price, and a supply vs demand value as well, let's take a look at the beer price in the next tooltip.

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Cheap beer, must be paradise…

Prices change every month towards the Target Price, which depends on the supply and demand of the goods in the market, and the current price stability. Price stability can change through the ages as well.

Supply & Demand
The supply of each good in a market depends on several factors.
  • The output from RGO’s
  • The output from buildings
  • Base Production
  • Burgher Trades

So what is ‘Base Production’? Some goods like clay, lumber, sand and stone are produced in every market, without the need for specific RGO’s, even if an RGO with that raw material can produce much more, and there are buildings that can be built to provide these as well.

Also, your burghers will trade on their own, if they have the capacity for it. They will attempt to address needs within the market, and can trade in a slightly shorter range, thus enriching their estate. There are laws and privileges that impact them, like the “Trade Monopolies” estate privilege that the Hanseatic League has granted in the earlier screenshot, which reduces their own merchant capacity by 25% to increase the capacity of the burghers by 100%

So what about demand? This is primarily from the maintenance, input, and construction of buildings, recruiting and maintaining armies and navies, and the demands of the population, but there are more sources as well.

Of course, trades themselves impact supply and demand as well.

Trade
You can use your merchant capacity in a market to either export a good from that market, or import a good from another market. Of course that market needs to be within your trade range, which is not world-spanning in 1337.

A trade is a variable amount of goods shipped from one market to another market, purchasing it for the local price in the exporting market. The longer the distance between the markets, the more capacity each good will require to ship, and higher the maintenance costs will be.

Trades have an impact on the last land location they are in before leaving the market, and the first one they enter in the importing market, giving boosts in development to them over time. A trade always has to trace a path on the map.

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Our merchant power makes us get the amount of goods we want in Riga.

There are also the Sound Tolls, if you pass through Öresund or the Bosphorus to consider.

Diplomacy and Trade
There are many diplomatic factors that impact the trade and market mechanics of Project Caesar.

First of all, you can “Deny Market Access” to a nation owning a market, which will reduce the attraction of their markets on your locations, but also make anyone with merchants in those markets upset with you.

You can also request and/or offer market access preference making it likelier for a country’s locations to belong in a certain market.

If you dislike paying Sound Tolls, you can always try to ask for exemption for it through diplomacy with the country controlling the strait.

Some countries have isolated themselves completely, so you need to negotiate a specific exception to allow you to export or import from their markets.

There is also the possibility to embargo a country, which would block the merchants from that country to trade in your markets, and also to not be allowed to move through your country. Of course, this a legit casus belli, so use with care.

Other aspects to Trade
Each market can have specific goods banned for export or import, with one common example being that muslim markets will ban import and export of wine, beer and liquor.

We mentioned in an earlier Tinto Talks that Markets will have stockpiles, so that surplus can be stored for a rainy day. There are buildings that will increase the amount that can be stored.

There is also food in the markets, with prices adapting to the supply and demand of food as well.

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Västra Götaland är Sveriges Kornbod!

There are also automation options where you can assign trading completely to the AI. You can also lock some trades so that the AI will not interfere with them.

Stay tuned, next week we’ll be talking about mercenaries, levies and regulars!
 
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If this is the situation at the start of the game, there is a serious problem with calling it the London market. This should be called either the Bruges or Ghent or Antwerp market. The trade hub in London is at some point even known as the Flemish Hanse in London because the Flemish are the actual trade intermediairy between England and the continent for all imports and exports (mostly wool) for the English.

its named after its location
 
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I assume you want to have one in Lisboa. Well, as Portugal is in my top 5 of countries I play, I'm not sure really about whether I want my own market or not. If I can buddy up with Castille I want to keep it for longer.. and also, as soon as I start getting things imported from africa, their pops and buildings helps keeping the demands high..
Assuming that Portugal is the first european country with access to Indian markets, I thought it would make sense they create Lisbon market the moment they can buy spices directly so other european nations go to Lisbon market to get it.

I've read the post a few times already but I don't fully comprehend it yet. Would it be beneficial for a country such as Portugal to create their own market, even though it may be small, if they are the only country that can access a certain good, effectively making it so other nations go to their market to obtain said goods?
 
How does Base Production work?

Is it like , every market has the same amount of base production for any good?
Does it come from provicnes goods that each provide a base production?

it depends on market size..
 
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I've read the post a few times already but I don't fully comprehend it yet. Would it be beneficial for a country such as Portugal to create their own market, even though it may be small, if they are the only country that can access a certain good, effectively making it so other nations go to their market to obtain said goods?
It would depend on how much profit you would gain from monopolising access to said good, vs having to import(and thus pay for) more of the basic stuff that was beforehand readily aviable in the castille market.
 
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I was thinking it could encompass all of Transylvania, Wallachia and future Moldavia, the Danube Delta and maybe some other Eastern parts of Hungary too or the Bulgarian areas North of the Balkan mountains.

It doesn't matter what you make it include, if those provinces have better market access to the other market capital they will move and evenutally that market will die. See Johans comments about why the low Countries are part of Londons market and not their own
 
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It would depend on how much profit you would gain from monopolising access to said good, vs having to import(and thus pay for) more of the basic stuff that was beforehand readily aviable in the castille market.
that makes sense, and makes for interesting gameplay
 
Great dev diary! As a longtime EU4 fan, I love the way trade is being handled in this completely unrelated mystery project.

One question though: London does not have a star on the market map, which I believe means it isnt an independent capital. Is the City of London the capital and a separate province from the rest of the city which is shown here?
 
I assume you want to have one in Lisboa. Well, as Portugal is in my top 5 of countries I play, I'm not sure really about whether I want my own market or not. If I can buddy up with Castille I want to keep it for longer.. and also, as soon as I start getting things imported from africa, their pops and buildings helps keeping the demands high..
Just out of curiosity, what are your top five countries to play for this game (and why)?
 
Have I read that map correctly - that Wales exists as a playable tag (albeit a subject of England, for now...) at game start, thus avoiding day 1 vassal release? (And definitely what is most historically accurate!)

Easily the most important news of the day - take my money now if true!

The things that happens when one of the team leads is Welsh :)
 
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How will the market of large trans continental empires look like? Will it be a single unified market or a sub-market that overlord will have higher controll of? Think like playing british empire and having colonies in america and trade companies in africa, south east asia?

You'll have lots of different markets,
 
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Westminster is the capital at the start.
Surely this must mean that London is actually a province, with individual locations like the City of London, Westminster etc, with the political centre being Westminster and the Financial centre being being the City? If so, that is really nice. Please tell me that you call it the market location The City of London and not just London:)
 
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Please @Johan at that time Barcelona was barely 15k town. Valencia was the commercial capital with around a 100k, dealing with all the silk trade, even becoming capital of the Kings due to its importance.

Please change the trade capital to Valencia!
The issue of which was the capital of the Crown of Aragón is very complex. However, Valencia was undoubtedly the commercial center of the Crown.

By the way, I just realized that Ciudad Real was named Villa Real during this century, and its denomination was changed after the support that the city provided to Juan II during the weird events of 1420. It would be a nice flavour that the location of Villa Real changed its name to Ciudad Real if it sided with the winners of a Civil War.
 
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