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Tinto Talks #10 - 1st of May 2024

Welcome to another Tinto Talks, the final of four on the economy system for our secret game with the code name “Project Caesar”.

Today we will talk about all the things related to trade, including markets, merchants and trades. This talk is heavy on tooltip screenshots, and a lot of concepts to digest, so I recommend checking it through multiple times.

Markets
Let's start with the markets themselves. These are dynamic and will change through the playthrough, as countries can create new markets and disband their old if they so desire.

Each market has a center in a location, and the owner of that location is in control over that market.

Every location and coastal seazone will belong to the most fitting market, which depends on the market attraction of the market, the distance between the location and the market center, diplomatic factors, and more.

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The Riga market has control over much of the Baltic region in the start..

A market has merchants, who have a power depending on buildings and maritime presence in the market, and a merchant capacity which depends on the infrastructure for trade that country has in that market. The Merchant Power impacts in which order exports from a market are executed, as there is not an endless supply of goods in a market. The Merchant Capacity impacts how much goods the merchants can ship.

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This is the source of the Hanseatic League’s merchant capacity in Riga.



As you can see in the market screenshot, every good has a local price, and a supply vs demand value as well, let's take a look at the beer price in the next tooltip.

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Cheap beer, must be paradise…

Prices change every month towards the Target Price, which depends on the supply and demand of the goods in the market, and the current price stability. Price stability can change through the ages as well.

Supply & Demand
The supply of each good in a market depends on several factors.
  • The output from RGO’s
  • The output from buildings
  • Base Production
  • Burgher Trades

So what is ‘Base Production’? Some goods like clay, lumber, sand and stone are produced in every market, without the need for specific RGO’s, even if an RGO with that raw material can produce much more, and there are buildings that can be built to provide these as well.

Also, your burghers will trade on their own, if they have the capacity for it. They will attempt to address needs within the market, and can trade in a slightly shorter range, thus enriching their estate. There are laws and privileges that impact them, like the “Trade Monopolies” estate privilege that the Hanseatic League has granted in the earlier screenshot, which reduces their own merchant capacity by 25% to increase the capacity of the burghers by 100%

So what about demand? This is primarily from the maintenance, input, and construction of buildings, recruiting and maintaining armies and navies, and the demands of the population, but there are more sources as well.

Of course, trades themselves impact supply and demand as well.

Trade
You can use your merchant capacity in a market to either export a good from that market, or import a good from another market. Of course that market needs to be within your trade range, which is not world-spanning in 1337.

A trade is a variable amount of goods shipped from one market to another market, purchasing it for the local price in the exporting market. The longer the distance between the markets, the more capacity each good will require to ship, and higher the maintenance costs will be.

Trades have an impact on the last land location they are in before leaving the market, and the first one they enter in the importing market, giving boosts in development to them over time. A trade always has to trace a path on the map.

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Our merchant power makes us get the amount of goods we want in Riga.

There are also the Sound Tolls, if you pass through Öresund or the Bosphorus to consider.

Diplomacy and Trade
There are many diplomatic factors that impact the trade and market mechanics of Project Caesar.

First of all, you can “Deny Market Access” to a nation owning a market, which will reduce the attraction of their markets on your locations, but also make anyone with merchants in those markets upset with you.

You can also request and/or offer market access preference making it likelier for a country’s locations to belong in a certain market.

If you dislike paying Sound Tolls, you can always try to ask for exemption for it through diplomacy with the country controlling the strait.

Some countries have isolated themselves completely, so you need to negotiate a specific exception to allow you to export or import from their markets.

There is also the possibility to embargo a country, which would block the merchants from that country to trade in your markets, and also to not be allowed to move through your country. Of course, this a legit casus belli, so use with care.

Other aspects to Trade
Each market can have specific goods banned for export or import, with one common example being that muslim markets will ban import and export of wine, beer and liquor.

We mentioned in an earlier Tinto Talks that Markets will have stockpiles, so that surplus can be stored for a rainy day. There are buildings that will increase the amount that can be stored.

There is also food in the markets, with prices adapting to the supply and demand of food as well.

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Västra Götaland är Sveriges Kornbod!

There are also automation options where you can assign trading completely to the AI. You can also lock some trades so that the AI will not interfere with them.

Stay tuned, next week we’ll be talking about mercenaries, levies and regulars!
 
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Since there is fish as a good, I'm hoping it's not an RGO, because to have fish as a trade good, you have to dry it or (most commonly) use salt. Just being able to generate tradeable fish in random locations without access to salt or a history of drying them like in Norway, wouldn't be historical and remove an important source of demand for salt.

its both an RGO and output from buildings.
 
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Does which market a location belong to entirely determined by market attractiveness? Or can it be intervened by the country?
For example, can a Lowlands country actively leave the London market and join the Paris market? Or the country can only observe market dynamically changes on itself?
 
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As much as the HRE borders are terrifying yet exciting to look at on the map, I couldn't help but notice the bordergore of the French Appanages as well. Oof. Finally a map of Europe as whole.

This trade system is beautiful. I'm so excited to see how it'll unfold with diplomacy and war, and how the two will affect each other.
 
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Not sure how I feel about needing to manually send merchants to move goods between markets, I worry about micromanagement. That said it does seem trade flow is fully dynamic depending on where supply and demand is, which is a HUGE step up from EU4's static system.
Unless you make your country into a trader nation, you don't need to care all that much about trade.

Some players run with fully automated trade.
Some do depending on country and situation, as you can automate most and just lock certain specific trades to not be ai controlled.
Some love the manual micromanaging.
 
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Anything special for the Silk Road?
 
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@Johan is it possible for a local province to be attached to multiple trade centers? Is there maybe a screen with the % of influence/pull each trade center has on a local province?
It would be cool to see different layers/levels of trade centers, so not only around 20 centers in europe, but France having around 7-10 regional trade centers. This would make the system super dynamic and also responsive to alterations like war destruction, blockades, etc.
 
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I love trading, I hope there will be country focus on ressources and trading with pacifist gameplay where you can manipulate the entire economy in the world, sounds fun to me :)
 
How will the markets work for colonial posessions? Would Goa remain in whichever Indian market it started in, or would it become part of the Lisbon market? And if it stays a part of its original market, what implications would that have?
 
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Will market language be important for anything? Will Mediterranean Lingua Franca/Sabir be in the game? How will piracy and banditry work? What advantages does being market leader have? Any more details about the burgher trade? Excellent dev diary by the way, thanks for doing this on Labor Day
 
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Can embargoes only be enacted by the owner of the market center? For instance if two countries within the same market don't want their goods (perhaps strategic ones such as food or materiel's for weapons) ending up in one anothers provinces what means can this be achieved by? Would they have to resort to fully ceasing exports to the market entirely?

Additionally, are embargoes dynamic? I.e, will there be some sort of representation of the ability of a nation to enforce an embargo via military means such as fleets to catch smugglers or effective garrisons in important locations within a market?

Also, food seems to be represented both in 'food,' itself, and in the form of goods to be traded such as wild game and fish. Do food stockpiles represent this? Will a stockpile derived from preserved fish and grains have the same effect as fish and grains going straight fro market to pops mouths in terms of pop satisfaction?
 
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Will Project Caesar have the old functionality of EU4, Vic2, etc where you could hit like F10 or F12 or w/e it was to print a screenshot of the whole world map? That was an amazing feature that I miss in the newer games
 
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Why the color gradient darkening outwards from the main city of the market. Is it the extent to which a location belongs to a market, as in darker = easier to make it switch markets?

yes
 
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So will trade goods chain across markets then? Like if there is demand for spices in the London market will it try to buy spices from neighbouring markets, causing them to have an increased demand for spices, meaning they will look for spices in neighbouring markets until eventually this need is met?

yeah, but you are not forced to buy from a neighbor market, if you got range you can import from Alexandria to London directly.
 
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Trades have an impact on the last land location they are in before leaving the market, and the first one they enter in the importing market, giving boosts in development to them over time. A trade always has to trace a path on the map.

Is there a way for the player to route the trade. E.g. if I play as England and want London to prosper, can I force outgoing and incoming trade to depart/arrive through London, or will it always arrive through the centre of trade or alternatively the shortest route?
 
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