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Tinto Talks #12 - 15th of May

Welcome to another Tinto Talks, where we delve into the details of the most top-secret project ever made.

This week we talk about something that is rather new to our GSG, and that is the concept of international organizations. Now this may sound like an anachronistic term, and when you read further in this Tinto Talks, you’ll go “but you already have this in previous games”. Yes, we did have some hard-coded systems in previous games, like the Holy Roman Empire, but what we have here in Project Caesar is a completely dynamic system, 100% scriptable and extendable for modders, which allows for many of these, and with far more flavor.

What is an international organization? Well, at its heart is a group of countries that share some common things, and then quite a few attributes that can be defined for them. The instruction file right now is 140 lines long, and it will keep growing.

Some examples of things that an IO can have are the following.
  • If it has a leader or not, and if the leader is a character or a country.
  • If it's unique or there can be multiples of it.
  • If locations can be owned by it or not.
  • Member benefits or penalties.
  • Laws and Policies it can have.
  • Special statuses inside the organization
  • How members will behave during wars
  • And dozens more unique attributes.
Membership in some of these can take a diplomatic relations slot.

As we continue our development of this game, we keep adding more of these, adding more unique flavor to the game.

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We have “control-groups” like every PDS game has had since EU1, and Stellaris added icons for quick selects… The one for Project Caesar can be pretty much anything in the game, and if you start as a member of an organization, you get a control group for it from the start.

Common Organizations
Let's take a look at some of the generic ones, some of these have been hard-coded systems in previous GSGs, and these are not unique organizations in a campaign, but can exist in multiple instances.
Coalitions
These can be created, with a country as a target, when the target has an aggressive expansion beyond a certain threshold.
Unions
This is a sort of defensive alliance between countries that share the same ruler. They may or may not have different levels of integration.

There are a few others like this, including defensive leagues and tribal federations.


Religious Organizations

Catholic Church
Every country in the world that is part of the Catholic faith is a part of this organization. They have issues that the cardinals vote on, and being a member has implications and restrictions. Of course, this has the added benefit of having Catholic pops in Catholic countries paying a tithe to the Church, which eventually finds its way into the Papacy.

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One reason to go Lutheran?

Crusades & Jihads
These are temporary international organizations that will be created when a Crusade or Jihad is called. They have a target set and act like an alliance against that country.

Autocephalous Patriarchates
Meaning self-headed, an Autocephalous Patriarchate is a metropolitan bishop in the Eastern Christian confessions which acts independently and does not depend on or answer to any other hierarchically superior church authority. The different patriarchates then have their own synods of bishops to decide upon anything affecting their own religious jurisdiction.


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WiP grahics etc.

There are many of these, for Orthodox, Miaphysite, and other Eastern Christian confessions.

There are many more, some other religions have a central organization, and others have fragmented ones.


Specific Organization
There are also a fair amount of completely unique and flavorful organizations.

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What's this then?

Tatar Yoke
The Tatar Yoke consists of various principalities of Eastern Europe that are subject to Tatar Rule following their invasion in the 13th century. The most prominent of rulers is awarded the title of Grand Prince, and is tasked with collecting tribute from the other tributaries on behalf of the Golden Horde Khan.

Middle Kingdom
The Middle Kingdom is the meaning of China and has been considered the cultural center of East Asia since Antiquity.

This organization is led by the Huángdì, the Emperor of China, who has a number of Fēng Chén, akin to vassals or tributaries, that can be promoted to Celestial Governors, equivalent to the Secretariats that the Yuán dynasty used in the administrative organization of their empire. Its members have a unique societal value, Sinicized vs Unsinicized, and there’s a Tribute system that determines how much Celestial Authority the Huángdì gets, which is used to enforce Laws and Decrees.

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The Tribute system is a system where the Huángdì sends gold to the other nations in the Middle Kingdom, depending on their size.

Holy Roman Empire
The glory of the ancient Roman Empire lives in the memory of all in Europe, Charlemagne was crowned Roman Emperor, but it was not until the coronation of Otto the Great that the current Holy Roman Empire was born, once again recovering the ambitions of a revived and unified European Empire.

This organization, of course led by an Emperor, has different statuses for countries like secular and religious electors, secular princes, free cities, and imperial prelates. It has laws that impact the organization and its members, the most important at the early game being the Golden Bull, which is a must to get approved in order to further develop the institutions of the Empire.

There are others in the game at the moment, like the Shogunate, the High Kingship of Ireland, and many more, as the system is very flexible to use.

Next week we will talk about what Religions we have in the game.
 
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Should be able to yes.
Ok. Now this one might be complicated a bit.

Can player expand on the religious map influence of Patriarchate of Constantinople? Lets say that player conquer Serbia, which should have their own Autocephalus Patriarchate, can player impose influence of PoC? More over does that mean player can abolish Patriarchate of Serbia for example? Also if player restore Patriarchate of Antioch can player decide which territories will be under the juristiction of PoA?
 
Hey @Johan, awesome work as its tradition by now.

Will there be hierarquical organizations that the player can create from scratch at will with their country as a leader? Such as the british dominion system.
Can I force countries on a peace deal to join an organization? Including one I created, such as the mentioned dominion?
 
@Johan

Instead of international organization:

1) international entity
2) multinational association
3) transnational body
4) supranational agency
5) consortium

Or any mix and match of the above. International organization as a combination sounds a bit modern.

Maybe have a forum poll with elimination rounds.
I think the most shaky part of all of these is the term "nation", as nation-states weren't really the norm back then, or weren't seen as such if they were one.

However for now i also don't have any idea what to call them instead.
 
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As you mentioned, we will be able to make union and defensive leauges. But the most important part here, the culture group of turks were wrong in the eu4. Whats the point of making belong the Turks in Anatolia as Levantine and those further east as Iranian. I'm sorry, but this just means that the creators of the game didnt care about these things. Turks should be belong to same culture group.
 
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No, only types that the content designers have created will exist.

Some of them are "dynamic" and can be "multiples", like an autocephalus patriarchate, or a union.
I think the question is that can the player directly or indirectly creat new IO from the default ones at 1337 start?think like creating factions in HOI4.
 
May I ask when will you back to talk about the military system?

early autumn, got LOTS of other stuff we need to show off before.
 
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Can someone help me budget this:
-10 ducats for maintaining my army and forts
-5 ducats for maintaining my court
-100 ducats for papal tithe
-3 ducats for importing food and goods

Please help, my country is going bankrupt and my loans to the burghers are up soon!

This Luther guy may have a solution..
 
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If for example the Austrians personal union Spain , if they manage to integrate them what do you think of having dynamic names for that , example being Habsburg union , or with Bohemia something like Austrian empire . Or for PLC you maybe form it during your integration . Or integrating Portugal as Castile makes you the Iberian union. Just a suggestion considering the dynamic state of names( that we have seen so far)
 
I like the Idea of these IO a lot but please tell me that whatever interface we have for them won't just be some generic interface. I don't know if the UI for the HRE in EU4 is necessarily the best UI but it is thematic and the loss of thematic UI from CK2 to CK3 for instance was very disappointing to me.

All are unique, and show have their own flavorful building blocks
 
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Each of them have more flavor and uniqueness than the hardcoded simpler systems of the path.
I hope this will include alternate UI elements that are different per UI?
Like the Middle Kingdom UI having chinese decoration, while the Papal one has like christian stuff (stained glass background or religious art), and the HRE having a very decorated gold one
 
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Could you clarify how Burgundy’s dual vassalage to both France and the Holy Roman Empire affects gameplay mechanics, specifically in scenarios involving war and taxation? For example, if Burgundy is dragged into a conflict by France, how does this impact its obligations and relationships within the Holy Roman Empire, and vice versa? Additionally, how are taxation policies managed in the game when the region is subject to the fiscal policies of two different sovereigns?
 
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