Tinto Talks #14 - 29th of May 2024

[erenovich01]

Johan can you say culture groups will change? Culture group of turks were wrong in the eu4. Whats the point of making belong the Turks in Anatolia as Levantine and those further east as Iranian. I'm sorry, but this just means that the creators of the game didnt care about these things. Turks should be belong to same culture group.

turks were in levant cause turks ruled the levant, in eu4 same culture group was for overextension and other things, it was for making ottomans easier to conquer and rule the levant. adding the turkish culture to turanic group or smh is stupid as you never gonna rule these unless youre world-conquering or something.

 

[mformazonov]

A very cool idea is described in the diary.

It would be nice to see, for example, the process of gathering Rus' in this way. The confrontation between supporters of the Grand Duchy of Moscow and the Grand Duchy of Lithuania (Lithuanian and Russian, as they said then) as well as other parties for the right to be called the heirs of the Rurikovichs and the true collectors of Rus'.

I would also like to see about the internecine wars in the Golden Horde and the place of the Russian Grand Dukes in all this. Then, for example, the Moscow princes were considered the same Genghisids as other khans and motivated by this the support of their proteges in the struggle for power over Kazan, Astrakhan and Siberia.

 

[DeepSpaceWanderer]

Feedback regarding the ability switch to playing as a Red Turban Rebellion situation rebel nations:

Each rebel nation is playable when it spawns,...

Please consider adding a way to pre-select playing as a Red Turban Rebellion rebel nation at the start of the game (i.e at the start of the game the player has an option to indicate that they intend to switch to a Red Turban Rebellion rebel nation once they start spawning). Either during the nation selection process or via an event Yuan player gets at the start of the game (probably the latter to reduce the chance that a player misses this option) (in the latter case control over the nation should be stripped from the player untill they resolve the event). Pre-selecting to play as one of the Red Turban Rebellion rebel nations should result in the following:

• Control over Yuan is transfered to the AI; the player essentially become observer but without the ability to change the nation they are observing.
• Yuan's AI is modified in a way that ensures/makes it highly likely that Red Turban rebellion is triggered and gets properly going.
• Once the rebel nations start spawning the player starts getting events that let them take over control of said spawning rebel nations.
• Consider making it the only way to play Red Turban rebels, or, at least, if there will be achievents requiring playing as Red Turban rebels, consider making starting this way be required for earning said achievements.

At first glance this may seem like a bad idea given that it forces the player to sit AFK for the first 13+ years of the game, but i would argue that it will actually result in the best experience for someone who wants to play as Red Turban rebels, because:

• It allows you (the developers) to better balance/makes it easier for you to balance the Red Turban Rebellion, as you have much more control over it's starting conditions.
• Having to sit AFK for 15 years is probably the best bad option for the player who wants to play as one of the Red Turban rebels out of the 3 available ones (the other two being "ruining Yuan" "trying to prock Red Turbans while keeping Yuan reasonably strong"), because
  • The player doesnt need to play a nation they dont want to play for 13+ years.
  • Choosing to "ruin Yuan" is worse because it makes winning in the Rebellion easier than it should be and is also a boring optimal strategy.
  • Choosing to "try to prock Red Turbans without ruining Yuan" is even worse because it
    • makes the difficulty of playing as Rebels unpredictable as it is now up to the player to try to set it through their gameplay on Yuan.
    • requires the player to do something that is quite far from the expected "nationbuilding" gameplay.

If you choose to implement this, consider adding similar optins for other beginning-of-the game situations that result in playable nations being released, if there are any. Possibly even consider adding similar events, triggering 10-15 years before the expected situation start dates, for all situations resulting in playable nations being released.

If you choose not to implement this, please at least add a way for modders to implement this wthout resotring to using some bodge like moving the Yuan player to some uninteractable nation somewhere outside of the map or surrounded by wastelands while they wait for the Red Turban Rebellion to trigger.

If someone from the Project Caesar staff is reading this, please indicate in some way that you are. I would like to know if there is any point in giving feedback past the first few hours/a day from the dev diary's release. I suspect there is, given that one of the goals of these dev diaries seems to be gathering feedback, but i'd like to be certain.

 

[ecrurudesby]

If you have a suggestion of what you think would be an important historical event that should be a situation, then please post them here!

Diplomatic Revolution of 1756?

 

[FaeKissed]

Agree 100%.

Players want to see an Ottoman Empire, and strong Russia, and want to experience the Reformation and Wars of Religion.

Playerswant THEIR choices to change history.

If I can put in my 2 cents: I'd like history to be dynamically shaped to the same flow. Like, say, maybe a Mongol horde is the one that takes over eastern Europe and expands into Siberia instead of Russians, or there's an Ottoman Empire that forms but it's not the same as the one that formed it historically, or Spain still forms from Aragon instead of Castille, etc..

 

[FedericoLachino]

Very Nice

Please don't call the Constantinople region, Byzantium. There were a grand total of 0 people who used that name back in the day, in fact when reffering the the state governing The city people reffered to it as Rome.

 

[Failtier]

How is that a situation? Austria enacts an HRE law and an internal law allowing it to have a female heir. Said female heir still has low legitimacy and on the death of the Emperor, an ambitious young king decides to invade Silesia, while pretendants circle like vultures around the realm.

There was a lot of diplomacy involved securing this law since the Emperor had to gain the recognition from internal players (HRE, electors), Hungary as well as foreign powers, including Great Britain, France, Russia, and Spain. The recognition of the Pragmatic Sanction by France, for instance, was concluded in the Treaty of Vienna (1738) ending the War of the Polish Succession.

 

[WhyP]

Will the German Peasants War be a situation?

 

[cyorde]

Would the Dutch revolts be a situation?

 

[Arizal]

There was a lot of diplomacy involved securing this law since the Emperor had to gain the recognition from internal players (HRE, electors), Hungary as well as foreign powers, including Great Britain, France, Russia, and Spain. The recognition of the Pragmatic Sanction by France, for instance, was concluded in the Treaty of Vienna (1738) ending the War of the Polish Succession.

"Internal players" sounds for me like an internal law in the HRE. For other powers, it doesn't sound like "securing" France neutrality did anything in reality, since they still invaded.

But very well, suppose this piece of paper has any value at all. You would want that any HRE country with a female heir could try to bargain for the neutrality of other countries in a coming war of succession over his country?

What would that achieve? Would said recognition bind the countries ahistorically? Would it give them any malus (like stab or prestige hit) when they attack?

I guess you could portray it by having someone (Bavaria, historically) pretend to the HRE throne, splitting the HRE in the same way you can split the Catholic Church with the schism, but I don't see what that diplomatic ballet with other powers who ultimately ignored Charles IV pleas adds to the game.

 

[RedMedal001]

The idea is for any Iberian Christian* nation to be able to unify Spain.

*Granada would be able to form al-Andalus if conquering the Christian lands.

If Spain is formed by Portugal or maybe Galícia, would the country be named Espanha? Would there be this level of flexibility with the name?

 

[Karalis123]

Do situations have to be 100% historical events or just historically plausible?

 

[spyroware1]

A potential Eastern European situation is the nominal Catholic-Othodox Union of the Council of Ferrara-Florence. It heavily affected Byzantium, even to the point that the final Emperors were termed Catholics. But it was not only a Byzantine matter. Even after the fall of Byzantium, Poland continuously tried to uphold the compact in an effort to pacify and better incorporate its Orthodox provinces. Russia and the Ottomans (as directors of the Patriarch of Constantinople) never supported the Union. Ruthenians themselves where of mixed disposition. A lot of Poland's territorial issues came from these conflicting religious policies and that's why the Polish-Ruthenian border is a mosaic of Catholics, Uniates, Greek Catholics, Orthodox etc. It could be a situation that could fire for every state owning Orthodox provinces and each state could decide to how to respond. After the affected countries handle the internal and external challenges of their decision, the religions could merge or treated as identical, or the compact would lapse as it happened OTL.

 

[AnInternetUser]

Agree 100%.

Players want to see an Ottoman Empire, and strong Russia, and want to experience the Reformation and Wars of Religion.

Playerswant THEIR choices to change history.


I've been doing these games for 25+ years now, and many times I've been suckered in by "we can simulate everything, we don't need narrative guidelines" only for game launches to be rocky, and having to readjust and making sure historical narratives are happening often enough.

the BIGGEST white pill in the history of paradox interactive

 

[RageRoyale]

So I know that nations expelled minorities in real life but will that give an advantage in game? And would it be possible, if the minorities are big enough, to have them revolt?

Also, can we expel minorities without the Black Death?

 

[RaccoonCity]

This looks perfect. Its exactly what I've been asking for years, a system that historically railroads the game into a recognisable map, with historical situations, but where there is some space for alternative history outcomes. Congratulations, @Johan, if this system works right you absolutely nailed it.

 

[Xero_99]

Is the Hundred Years War a Situation?

read the tinto talk and you'll find out

 

[flashgamer00022]

"Next week though, we will talk about something that many people have asked for repeatedly."

I hope this is referring to an "Imperator Rome" like character system, with actual visible people/portraits!

 

[turoo7]

Shouldn't Dali and Korea be vassals of Yuan? wasn't Yunan and the general area around Dali one of the last loyalist strongholds of the Yuan in China? I believe both Dali and Korea also had Mongolian governors in addition to their local rulers though in practice Korea had much more autonomy. Could it be modeled with an event chain were Korea can choose to stick with the Yuan or leave them with the Yuan being given the option to spend resources to intervene or influence them.

 

[Draky]

Idk if its just me, but I really love your pastel-esque colour-palette. It's really pleasant to look at.