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Tinto Talks #31 - 2nd of October 2024

Welcome to another Tinto Talks, the Happy Wednesday where we spill the secrets of our upcoming game, with the codename Project Caesar.

Last week we talked about wars and wargoals, and today we are going to talk about how wars will end, as we discuss the peace system. If you have played other GSG games for Paradox, some of this may not be news to you though.


Peace Offers
To end a war you need to negotiate a peace with either the leader on the other side, or if you are the leader on your side, you can negotiate a separate peace with a single independent country on the other side.

One thing that is important to notice, is that if you declare war for a war goal to conquer a certain province, then you can not take any other land, UNLESS you take the wargoal.

To be able to take land, you also need to have control over the province capital.

A Peace Offer, will consist of a set of treaties that can have a total value of up to 100 Peace Cost. Of course the other side would have to agree, and they are very likely not to accept anything where the peace cost is higher than the current warscore.

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Peace in our time?

Peace Treaties
A peace treaty can be the transfer of a location, province or area. It can also be to force another country to stop sending privateers, or transferring gold to you, or dismantling fortification in a location, humiliating them or any other of the dozens upon dozens of possible peace treaties of Project Caesar.

The cost of each treaty depends on many factors, whether it’s part of the wargoal or not, the population, the type of the treaty and so on.

peace_cost.png

Numbers are still being tweaked..


Aggressive Expansion
Aggressive Expansion is one of the drawbacks of strengthening your own country ahead of others. Taking territory is one of the easiest ways to increase it. While taking land impacts your own country a fair bit, it also impacts the opinions of other countries near the source of the aggressive expansion a fair bit. If you get your AE high enough, countries with a low enough opinion of you may join a coalition against you. A Coalition is an international organization oriented around severely reducing the power of a single country.

ae_impact.png

We can probably live with this AE though?


War Enthusiasm
When it comes to how willing a nation is to fight, much comes down to their War Enthusiasm. If this is high then the AI is unlikely to accept a peace that is not favorable to them. This is determined by the state of the country, with war exhaustion, control of capital and military strength are big factors. For the leader of a side in the war the overall military balance is a huge factor as well.


enthusiasm.png

Bohemia really wants to continue this war…


War Participation
Most of the time you bring allies to help you out in a war, but they expect to be rewarded for the part they pull. The War Participation is how much a country has contributed to the progress of the war. This is primarily done through battles, blockades and sieges.

You may sometimes have to convince your allies to join an offensive war that you are starting, and thus you can promise them part of the spoils of the war. If the part that they gain from signing a peace is less than their participation they will get upset.



Stay tuned, as next week, we’ll talk about the conflicts in the world that do not involve declarations of war, and negotiations of peace.
 
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diddy said:
Two questions, one from last TT:

1. How long do you intend for a CB to last? Months? Years? Decades?

2. Do all locations amount to the same AE? Looks like they are all 0.71. So it doesn't depend on dev, pops, or whether it is part of HRE like in eu4?
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I'd say it likely depends on distance from the winner's realm/control and the given country's own advancements
 
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Here's that terrain sneak peak with a reduced blue tint and increased contrast. Osterode is today called Ostróda, and is in East Prussia.
We're seeing tree models, rivers, and castles, some sort of small house above "Inowrocław", as well as a piece of a national outline/border near the coast to the upper left?
Also some sort of food icon on the lower left. There also appears to be some icons in the middle, behind the text. Some sort of horse icon behind "Military Acess." Can't quite make out what the one above it is. Perhaps a metal lock, or a zero of some kind?
I'm assuming these are very early graphics. The graphics settings appear to be set to low as well, as it doesn't look like there's much anti-aliasing going on.

Looks pretty good so far. nothing overly kitschy or strange. Models and geographical features look to be quite small, which I like.
 
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Ispil said:
So... is it even technically possible in this system to have the Ottoman conquest of Egypt and the Levant in a single war, or is that just gonna have to come through a magical post-war effect or bespoke war goal that lets them accomplish that?
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To be fair, that happened because they basically captured the mamluk leadership… but with characters, maybe you could add something like that? Capture the enemy country leader and you have more leverage
 
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HansFlammenwerfer said:
Would you consider changing the way white peaces work and rather than making the borders return to the pre-war situation, it instead just ends the war and all controlled territories switch to either side.

That way, a white peace is closer to a cease-fire rather than "let's just pretend we never had a war to begin with"
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I dont want white peaces to be removed/replaced entirely because ”status quo ante bellum” wars happened historically. But an alternate peace terms that are more like Stellaris where both sides keep what they control could be interesting.
 
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I don't think it's a good idea to *require* players take a certain piece of land. I have had many games where I have declared war on a nation, only to realize I did not actually want that land, and it would be against my interests to take it.
 
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Nafetz16 said:
What are the effects of AE on your own country? Less stability like in Imperator?
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No,

- it moves some societal values over time.
- reduces your diplomatic reputation
- reduces your cultural influence
and makes your spies far worse.
 
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Baphomet enjoyer said:
View attachment 1196560
First Tinto talk to hit net negative. I hope the more interesting topics such as culture and parliments will come soon since this has been a streak of meh
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True. I do wanna see how culture integration will work since it is something that will greatly affect the integration process. And also because I love making multi-cultural nations.
 
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Thrudgelmir2333 said:
I kind of feel like them being of the 'same religion' ought to be a negative factor for war cost and AE, not a positive one? Wasn't that one of the factors causing wars between christians to be really granular in border changes, and all? While territories of enemy religions were seen as fair game by your peers.
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Unless you conquer territoiries with a lot of pop following your religion, when the previous owner had a different one.
One could justify this annexation as liberation.
 
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diddy said:
Two questions, one from last TT:

1. How long do you intend for a CB to last? Months? Years? Decades?

2. Do all locations amount to the same AE? Looks like they are all 0.71. So it doesn't depend on dev, pops, or whether it is part of HRE like in eu4?
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1 - depends, currently its 5 years by default.

2 - AE functions are very "barebones" atm.
 
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Daniel the Finlander said:
To be fair, that happened because they basically captured the mamluk leadership… but with characters, maybe you could add something like that? Capture the enemy country leader and you have more leverage
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You'd have to lower the peace deal cost real low to fit almost all of the Mamluk Sultanate under that mandated "no more than 100 points of peace deal cost" limit.
 
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DoctorSnakes said:
I think this is strange. I have no doubt that there are historical examples of wars that were declared for one goal, only for a peace deal to happen where something else is agreed upon. No doubt often done as a compromise, or when the goal changes.
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yes, but it also removed a fair bit of griefing and exploits.
 
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matfer13 said:
Will peace require for one of the 2 sides involved to need at least 10 warscore like in Imperator Rome? I hope not
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To demand something?
 
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nothing seems wrong with the TT , its pretty much how it work in imperator too and some even like eu4
of course if you are invading for lorraine and alsace you cant take flanders instead unless its a death war
of course you cant just take massive cities and expect to take more else in regular wars those did cost a lot in every eu game and imperator
of course AE and War exhaustion and lack of war enthusiasm will cause drawbacks
of course War Participation require some convincing and promises of gains or reward etc

the TT look pretty fine nothing new nothing controversial but slight changes that only limit the wild map painting to preserve the states for the longest time instead of having them annexed all by 1500. this is the stellaris approach that keep the council relevant even on late game and allow fun galactic civil wars in the end.
 
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