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Tinto Talks #35 - 30th of October

Hello everyone and welcome to another Tinto Talks, as it's a Happy Wednesday, the day of the week where we spill information about our super-mega-fantastically-secret game with the code name of Project Caesar.

Today we’ll talk about three relatively related topics, relating to Country Ranks, Great Powers and Hegemonies.

Country Ranks
There are four ranks that countries can have in Project Caesar. It is more similar to EU4 than Imperator in that changing country ranks is something you actively do on your own. Besides having various rules on what a country can do, they also give some benefits, and rather importantly to the player experience, they impact what the countries are called.

The code supports multiple types of ranks at the same level, so modders could in theory add dozens of variants of a duchy rank if they so desire.

The default rank is the County Rank, which all countries default to, unless set up to be something else.

The first rank above that is the Duchy Rank, where you can now guarantee other countries, and a little bit higher diplomatic capacity and power projection. Countries that start on this level include the Duchy of Brittany or the Duchy of Lithuania. To be able to upgrade from a county to a duchy, you can not be in any International Organizations that disallow rank changes, but you also need at least 100,000 pops of your primary culture.

The next rank above that is the Kingdom Rank, which requires 1 million pops of your primary culture and gives a larger diplomatic range and other abilities. This includes countries like the Kingdom of Sweden and the Sultanate of Delhi

The final rank, the Empire Rank, which is the hardest to promote to, allows for a wider variety of diplomatic actions, and other abilities. At the start of the game there is only one Empire in Europe though, the Eastern Roman one. A country must become a Great Power before they are able to attain this rank, and there are special restrictions on Catholic countries from pretending to be emperors without the Pope’s permission.

become_kingdom.png

Yeah, Livonian Order with about 380 Prussians has a bit of a challenge here..

Great Powers
A great power is a country that through advances, population, land area, development, and other factors has risen to be one of the most powerful countries in the world, and as such gains the ability to influence other countries simply by throwing its weight around.

The countries with the highest great power score become great powers. Subjects and countries fighting for their independence may not become Great Powers.

1730281525724.png

The countries you’d perhaps expect to be Great Powers in 1337 right?


Currently there are always eight different countries that are the Great Powers, but this is not a design we are 100% satisfied with. We have been talking about making the amount variable per age, or by using a threshold. We’ve also talked about mechanics for regional powers, but all designs so far have some severe drawbacks, for example how we would define the geographical area to make it feel good.

gp_benefit.png

There are some advantages to being a Great Power after all…


Hegemony
This is another feature that was introduced in the ‘Emperor’ DLC for EU4, but here will be a part of the base game. In that game this was a late game mechanic that would pit the most dominant countries against each other. This created a mechanic that most people never saw, and if they saw it in single-player, it was merely a tool to make the player even more powerful when he had already won the game.

In this game, however, the Hegemony mechanics unlock through an advance in the Age of Discovery.

We currently have three types of hegemony, Military, Navy and Economic, in the game, similar to EU4, and you can only be one type of Hegemony at the same time. We could be open to adding maybe a Cultural Hegemony as well, as the next few weeks Tinto Talks will show things about Culture-related systems.

To proclaim a Hegemony you need to be a Great Power, and then have a bigger army, navy or economy than all other great powers. After you proclaim it, you get a bonus where most of it scales with how long you have held the hegemony.

In a game where a casus belli is not always easy to get, the fact that you can always create a Casus Belli on any hegemon, if you are not one yourself, can be beneficial.

If you ever lose a war as a hegemon, you will lose your hegemony.

And remember, if you lose your hegemony, your prestige and diplomatic reputation will suffer.

hegemon.png

This one is kind of fun to have..

Stay tuned, as next week, we will do the first development diary about our new cultural mechanics in Project Caesar.
 
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A raid in Thrace doesn't negate the fact that from this point on they are going down hill, even if they are still going strong.
Only within 4 years, they lost to a country less than half their size. I did not say they were weak, but they were definitely not as strong as Emp3ror above states
You are saying they definitely not as strong as but why dont you say France is overpower they should 150 or something
 
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No no no. We know that is glorifying europe. We saw that in eu4. I couldnt beat France with Ottoman Empire in later 1500s????? Europe pips making dice work for them. Then what is for technology? They say they fixed Technology system( that) in project ceasar, But renaisannce start at 1337 what is this :D how can renaisannce start in 1337 :D
I am under the impression that in this case it isn't Paradox that is biased towards Europe, but it is you who is biased against it
 
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They still lost Moldavia just a few years after the start date to a much smaller and weaker Hungary. You are exaggerating the power of the GH significantly; they were a great power, sure, just not a super one.


France had circa 10-15M people, while Delhi according to Paradox is at 41M, which sounds reasonably accurate; still, I think France would only rank at around 5-6th place at most
Delhi and mamluk are turkic-military states they estabilished by commanders and ruled by commanders Golden horde is same they are coming from Mongol military culture thats why there were powerful back in days. They could lose but it doesnt change they were powerful than europe states. I am sure if paradox made that game in b.c states like carthage or selecuid wouldnt even be in the list
 
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No no no. We know that is glorifying europe. We saw that in eu4. I couldnt beat France with Ottoman Empire in later 1500s????? Europe pips making dice work for them. Then what is for technology? They say they fixed Technology system( that) in project ceasar, But renaisannce start at 1337 what is this :D how can renaisannce start in 1337 :D
Just because they were overpowered in EU4 does not mean they will be in Project Caesar. Over EU4s lifespan, we saw slowly dwindling power of European nations, not to mention the many Tinto talks that have shown MUCH better representation of non-europe, combined with the heavy nerfing of exploration and colonization you will see far less european dominance (especially in the early stages of the game).
 
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I am under the impression that in this case it isn't Paradox that is biased towards Europe, but it is you who is biased against it
I am not. I just want historical game. France, England were dominant in 1700s 1800s. Spain portugal 1600s Austria in 1500s 1400s but what i say it is not historical. In 1300s 1400s asian states were its peak. Even in 1500s 1600s there was powerful asian states but what i say is in 1300s there was feodalism in europe. But in project ceasar it starts with renaisannce
 
They still lost Moldavia just a few years after the start date to a much smaller and weaker Hungary. You are exaggerating the power of the GH significantly; they were a great power, sure, just not a super one.


France had circa 10-15M people, while Delhi according to Paradox is at 41M, which sounds reasonably accurate; still, I think France would only rank at around 5-6th place at most
Ah you are correct, Delhi had more people. Though I suspect that the situation/crises Delhi finds itself in at gamestart as well as other situations (like Yellow turban rebellion or civil wars) will likely have negative modifiers to great power. Even if they don't great power status is heavily based on Control, which considering Delhi starts with a collapse of the sultanate (or whatever they call it) situation, that is probably SEVERLY hindering their GP status on start date.
 
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Just because they were overpowered in EU4 does not mean they will be in Project Caesar. Over EU4s lifespan, we saw slowly dwindling power of European nations, not to mention the many Tinto talks that have shown MUCH better representation of non-europe, combined with the heavy nerfing of exploration and colonization you will see far less european dominance (especially in the early stages of the game).
I want to but when i see renasainnce and that things probably i will going to with aoh. I love eu and i waited for years but im sorry i wont play it
 
Currently there are always eight different countries that are the Great Powers, but this is not a design we are 100% satisfied with. We have been talking about making the amount variable per age, or by using a threshold. We’ve also talked about mechanics for regional powers, but all designs so far have some severe drawbacks, for example how we would define the geographical area to make it feel good.
For the regional power, I think that the best way is to be a regional power inside your diplomatic range instead a fixed geographic area, like a country in anatolia may have bigger influence in the balkans while being in middle east, and lower influence in Oman, that is in middle east too. Or like Colombia, that are in south america, but it should higher influence in central america and caribbean sea, which I think would be in North america region than in the far away Argentina.

I know Colombia and Argentina aren't in the game, at the beggining at least, but I think it's a good exemple to ilustrate the point
 
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I thought this game was supposed to be straying away from modifier stacking. Why can't the hegemon system unlock new abilities instead of providing unfounded bonuses such as to attrition or army movement speed.
i agree with this it make more sense having specific features based around said hegemony thats basically what the tributary system was for china they were the hegemon of the region so they demanded tribute from their neighbors in exchange for protection and access to their markets
 
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Question: Will a map component display Country Ranks, Great Powers, and Hegemonies? If so, will it illustrate their spheres of influence across the world? For example, if I were to view the Sultanate of Delhi, would I be able to see their level of investment in specific regions or globally regarding foreign affairs? Additionally, could this map reflect their capacity to incite conflicts, such as a proxy war?
 
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My big takeaway from this one is the limitation of county/duchy/kingdom, based on population of primary culture. The immediate thing is that it seems like something that'll limit gameplay for realms that are more multicultural than not, consist of closely related cultures, or otherwise aren't striving to be pureblooded nationstates in the purest sense of the term. It feels arbitrary when specific historical kingdoms are given specific allowance to become illegal kingdoms at start. But I think I see why certain cultural distinction decisions were made, if unifying a kingdom in this game is dependent upon unifying/profusely breeding a same peoples as opposed to many or similar peoples.
 
Ah you are correct, Delhi had more people. Though I suspect that the situation/crises Delhi finds itself in at gamestart as well as other situations (like Yellow turban rebellion or civil wars) will likely have negative modifiers to great power. Even if they don't great power status is heavily based on Control, which considering Delhi starts with a collapse of the sultanate (or whatever they call it) situation, that is probably SEVERLY hindering their GP status on start date.
I think what you're talking about is the rebellion of the Red Turban Army, not the Yellow Turban Army. The Yellow Turban Army was a peasant uprising in the late Eastern Han Dynasty, which was over a thousand years ago from the start of the game
 
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Hello everyone and welcome to another Tinto Talks, as it's a Happy Wednesday, the day of the week where we spill information about our super-mega-fantastically-secret game with the code name of Project Caesar.

Today we’ll talk about three relatively related topics, relating to Country Ranks, Great Powers and Hegemonies.

Country Ranks
There are four ranks that countries can have in Project Caesar. It is more similar to EU4 than Imperator in that changing country ranks is something you actively do on your own. Besides having various rules on what a country can do, they also give some benefits, and rather importantly to the player experience, they impact what the countries are called.

The code supports multiple types of ranks at the same level, so modders could in theory add dozens of variants of a duchy rank if they so desire.

The default rank is the County Rank, which all countries default to, unless set up to be something else.

The first rank above that is the Duchy Rank, where you can now guarantee other countries, and a little bit higher diplomatic capacity and power projection. Countries that start on this level include the Duchy of Brittany or the Duchy of Lithuania. To be able to upgrade from a county to a duchy, you can not be in any International Organizations that disallow rank changes, but you also need at least 100,000 pops of your primary culture.

The next rank above that is the Kingdom Rank, which requires 1 million pops of your primary culture and gives a larger diplomatic range and other abilities. This includes countries like the Kingdom of Sweden and the Sultanate of Delhi

The final rank, the Empire Rank, which is the hardest to promote to, allows for a wider variety of diplomatic actions, and other abilities. At the start of the game there is only one Empire in Europe though, the Eastern Roman one. A country must become a Great Power before they are able to attain this rank, and there are special restrictions on Catholic countries from pretending to be emperors without the Pope’s permission.

View attachment 1209271
Yeah, Livonian Order with about 380 Prussians has a bit of a challenge here..

Great Powers
A great power is a country that through advances, population, land area, development, and other factors has risen to be one of the most powerful countries in the world, and as such gains the ability to influence other countries simply by throwing its weight around.

The countries with the highest great power score become great powers. Subjects and countries fighting for their independence may not become Great Powers.

View attachment 1209272
The countries you’d perhaps expect to be Great Powers in 1337 right?


Currently there are always eight different countries that are the Great Powers, but this is not a design we are 100% satisfied with. We have been talking about making the amount variable per age, or by using a threshold. We’ve also talked about mechanics for regional powers, but all designs so far have some severe drawbacks, for example how we would define the geographical area to make it feel good.

View attachment 1209270
There are some advantages to being a Great Power after all…


Hegemony
This is another feature that was introduced in the ‘Emperor’ DLC for EU4, but here will be a part of the base game. In that game this was a late game mechanic that would pit the most dominant countries against each other. This created a mechanic that most people never saw, and if they saw it in single-player, it was merely a tool to make the player even more powerful when he had already won the game.

In this game, however, the Hegemony mechanics unlock through an advance in the Age of Discovery.

We currently have three types of hegemony, Military, Navy and Economic, in the game, similar to EU4, and you can only be one type of Hegemony at the same time. We could be open to adding maybe a Cultural Hegemony as well, as the next few weeks Tinto Talks will show things about Culture-related systems.

To proclaim a Hegemony you need to be a Great Power, and then have a bigger army, navy or economy than all other great powers. After you proclaim it, you get a bonus where most of it scales with how long you have held the hegemony.

In a game where a casus belli is not always easy to get, the fact that you can always create a Casus Belli on any hegemon, if you are not one yourself, can be beneficial.

If you ever lose a war as a hegemon, you will lose your hegemony.

And remember, if you lose your hegemony, your prestige and diplomatic reputation will suffer.

View attachment 1209269
This one is kind of fun to have..

Stay tuned, as next week, we will do the first development diary about our new cultural mechanics in Project Caesar.
The Hegemony mechanic seems a little gamey to me. That said…

REGIONAL POWERS REGIONAL POWERS REGIONAL POWERS
 
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