Tinto Talks #36 - 6th of November

[SaintDaveUK]

This looks absolutely amazing. I’m curious whether, even if dialects themselves don’t have gameplay effects, different dialects can belong to different culture groups.

It would be nice, for instance, if Hiberno-English could be part of the Irish/Gaelic culture group as well as the British one, or Galician within the Spanish culture group.

Dialects don't belong to culture groups, cultures do.

As it stands, Irish and Anglo-Irish both sit in the Hibernian culture group, but split between Celtic and British groups respectively.

 

[SaintDaveUK]

Could you make a game rule for this/the more unique or regional name?. Roi de France sounds so much cooler.

If we do that for French there becomes an expectation that the game rule covers other languages too. And this game covers the whole world, so...

 

[SaintDaveUK]

@SaintDaveUK the language feature seems to address many of the points brought up months ago when the UK map was presented, where people were discussing dividing English into many cultures. On reflection of the feature, can we get a confirmation that England will remain as one culture, but with English being divided into 2 or 3 distinct dialects within England, or it the dev team still going down the route of dividing England into English and Northumbrian culture?

Northumbrian culture was added to represent North English, a gradient spreading roughly from South Yorkshire and Cheshire up to the Scottish Borders. It is Kindred with English and Accepted in England. I'm teetering on adding West Saxon but I'm not convinced it would work for the narrative we have for England.

Cultures have exactly 1 dialect, never multiple. Both Northumbrian and English use the English dialect because we can't find many reliable sources for a Northumbrian namelist.

In 1337 it would be more correct to say Scots and Northumbrian share the Northumbrian dialect, but we want Scots to have some flavour like that feels a bit more distinctly Scottish, names like Ian, Rabbie, Ogilvie, Fairbairn, or Lunnon that don't really make sense being used by Yorkshiremen.

 

[SaintDaveUK]

Separate Turkish, Turkoman and Azeri especially make zero sense when they have been living together just two centuries ago. I would also argue for siz Turkic languages, Turki/Karluk/Karakhanid/Chagatai/Hakani, Oghuz/Turkmen, Kipchak/Cuman, Siberian, Oghuric, Arghu/Khalaj.

Putting Azeri and Turkish as two languages while Czech and Polish as one is inaccurate, Azeri and Turkish are far closer than Czech and Polish

As Kaspar Osraige has already commented, having Turkish, Turkmen, and Azerbaijani be different languages makes close to 0 sense. Turkish and Azerbaijani are borderline mutually intelligible to this day, and at the time there would have been barely any separation between them. For example, the writings of 14th-century Azerbaijani bard Seyid Nesimi, the national poet of Azerbaijan, are fairly legible to modern Turks from Turkey once you remove the Persian influences (which were also present in Anatolian Turkish poetry at the time).

I don't think labelling Turkish, Azeri and Turkmen as languages as opposed to dialects makes much sense, especially in the 14th century. Even the modern forms of Turkish and Azeri are mutually intelligible. Though there were some Turkic migrations to Anatolia in 11th century, most of the tribes migrated in 13th century fleeing from the Mongols, so there was no time for them to diverge. If German and Scandinavian are labelled as languages even in far remote places, then I think Turkish/Turkmen should also be labelled as such.

Does this looks a bit more palatable? Merged the 3 languages into Oghuz and then you have Turkish/Turkmen/Azeri dialects

 

[SaintDaveUK]

I know it's nitpicking but how come Oghuz Turkish has only 5.48% language power, despite being used by several cultures and two dozen countries as a court language, while Spanish is somehow 30% even though it's only actually spoken by much less people and only two countries? Or did the calculation change between the two screenshots?

The exact calculation isnt finalized yet.

 

[SaintDaveUK]

Good, but one day we gotta talk about some of those flags man

Why wait? The earth cycles relentlessly around the sun, feedback today is worth 10 feedbacks tomorrow.

 

[SaintDaveUK]

Also why did you change the Castilian one? The one they use in EU4 was perfect
View attachment 1214824
This one is the one of the kingdom of Castile not the CROWN of Castile

Fixed

 

[SaintDaveUK]

Since we're talking about flags now, you might be interested in reading part of one of my posts about the Shan states in Burma, I made a section on flags because I felt like their flags in EU4 were kinda random.

These are based on their local legends and names:

Thanks, I forwarded it to our flag artist and he was grateful for the help.

 

[SaintDaveUK]

I love you

I like you too

 

[SaintDaveUK]

This may have already been answered, but can pops assimilate into any accepted culture in a country? Like if I am France, and I invade Spain and annex it all, will the Andalusi pops only assimilate into Francien culture or can they assimilate into other Spanish cultures I've accepted, say I've accepted Castilian, so long as there are Castilians in the province said Andalusis are in?

You can use a Cabinet action to assimilate towards any Accepted culture

 

[SaintDaveUK]

How do we feel about this West Slavic split? Sorbian really could have gone into either group so I went with Czech to make them a bit more balanced.