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Tinto Talks #41 - 11th of December 2024

Hello Everyone and Welcome to another Tinto Talk! This is the Happy Wednesday where we give you information about our very secret game with the codename Project Caesar.

This week we will talk about Parliaments. We have a simple feature with the same name in EU4, but this is rather different, as you will see. We have also gone heavily into making this flavorful as well, and many countries have their unique names for their Parliament, where it is a “Corts” in Aragon, and a “Riksdag” in Sweden…

parliament_overview.png

How is this parliament going?


Type of Parliaments
First of all, there are five types of parliaments, although technically you could argue that no parliament is a type as well. They are based on the different types of 'gatherings' that different societies had, which means that different countries will start with a different type of parliament and that you will be able to change it during the game.

Assembly
  • Available to all countries.
  • Nobles + Peasants can have agendas, but they have very weak impact.

Council
  • Requires Codified Laws Advance
  • Nobles + Clergy can have agendas, but have a weak impact.

council.png

Can be useful…


Estate Parliament
  • Requires Feudalism Advance
  • Nobles, Clergy and Burghers can all have agendas

Autocratic Parliament
  • Requires an Age of Absolutism Advance.
  • Nobles, Clergy and Burghers can all have agendas
  • Crown Power is 25% stronger.
  • Can force through any issue they want in parliament for a small cost.

Constitutional Parliament
  • Requires an Age of Absolutism Advance.
  • Nobles, Clergy and Burghers can all have agendas, and their impact is much higher.
  • The Nobles Estate has an improved estate satisfaction.


If you wish to let your peasants have a say in your parliament you can grant them a privilege, but don’t say we didn’t warn you.


Calling a Parliament
If you are able to hold any type of parliament, you can call them as long as it's been at least five years since the last parliament was called. If you do not call one for a decade the estates will get less and less satisfied for each passing month.

When you call a parliament you get the choice of where the parliament should be held. You can always hold the parliament in your capital, which will give a small boost to centralization but you also have the option to pick another location. Usually you can pick any town or city, but there are countries that can hold a parliament in a rural location as well. If you pick a place that is not the capital, your country will become slightly more decentralized, but that location gains a nice bonus for the duration of the parliament, which lasts about half a year.

parliament_location.png

A temporary mini-capital that prospers?


You also need to pick an issue that will be the main debate of the parliament as well. You have up to two options per estate to choose from, where the parliament support you gain depends on their current power in the country.

select_DEBATE.png

The needs of the crown do not grant additional support..

Parliament Issues
The issue picked has a modifier that is applied to the country while the debate is ongoing. In many cases this is rather beneficial, but it only lasts for the duration of the parliament. We currently have over 70 different parliament issues, and about a dozen country specific ones.

If you fail to get enough support in parliament there will be a drawback which is usually a hit to stability, but if you get over 50% backing in parliament the country will get some benefits depending on the Issue.

castle_issue.png

This is something that many estates may view as beneficial..

parliament_issue.png

In those days a decree went out from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be registered. This was the first registration and was taken while Quirinius was governor of Syria. All went to their own towns to be registered.


Parliament Support
So what is Parliament Support then? You will always have a base support from your current crown power, which normally will be rather low (unless you have completely crippled your estates), and then you also have the potential support you get from picking an issue. There are also some government reforms and/or advances that increase the base support.

So how do you increase the support during a parliament then?

Parliament Agendas
Well, you can always see what agendas that the estates want to push during a parliament, and if you grant them what they want, your parliament support will increase. The amount that the Parliament Support increases is based on the estate power that they have, multiplied by their current satisfaction. This makes it beneficial to keep estates happier than the minimum levels, if you wish to rely upon them in parliament.

These agendas include law changes, changes in societal values, privileges granted and more. If you accept the agenda of an estate, then the next agenda they propose in this session will give far less parliament support.

autonomy.png

It’s for the greater good I assume?



Parliament Requests
You can also use the parliament support immediately during a session, and get a request fulfilled, but that will reduce your support by 50%.

Request Additional Taxes
This allows you to collect more taxes from the estates during the next 3 years

Ask for Larger Levies
This will make you able to raise 25% larger levies at any point during the next 3 years.

Ask for Law Changes
This will allow you to change laws at a much reduced cost of stability during the next 3 years.

Prepare for War
This will get you an insulted casus belli on a country of your choice within diplomatic range.

Of course, using any of these requires you to probably have to pick an issue backed by a powerful estate, and probably accept an agenda or two.


I would not recommend hovering closely to 50% if you really want an issue to succeed as there may be events that could reduce it happening.

Parliament Seats
We have two more things influencing parliaments that might be of interest as well. There are two special buildings that can be created that are counted as “Parliament Seats”, which gives extra significance to that location. One is an Urban Parliament Seat that the Burghers can ask for during a Parliament, which grants a significant permanent power to the Burghers in a town or city. The other one is the Rotten Borough, which the Nobles Estate will build in rural locations increasing their power if they are not currently happy.


Before we end though, we would like to hear of any flavor names you would like to see for parliaments, we have about 35 at the moment...

Stay tuned, as next week we will talk about disasters!
 
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I have some questions:

Will the parliament have a fixed number of seats based on factors like the number of provinces, locations, and population, or will it be a nonnumerical representation of the country’s state? For instance, if Aragon has 110 seats in its "Corts" (parliament), would the number of seats adjust as it grows and conquers more land, or decrease if the population or territory shrinks? Additionally, will there be an election system or a way to visualize how different classes hold varying levels of influence in the country through the composition of parliamentary seats? Also, is a cap limit for the number of seats in any country's parliament?

Name Ideas of Parliaments for countries

Veitingshus for Iceland or other nordic countries
Consiglio delle Terre for Italian states
House of the Jade Sea or the Heaven's Courts for China
 
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Before we end though, we would like to hear of any flavor names you would like to see for parliaments, we have about 35 at the moment...
Given that you guys have mentioned in other dev diaries that you plan to allow for the possibility of representing the 13 Colonies as a either a single colonial nation or a confederation of colonial nations, it's worth adding the names of the individual colonial legislatures, though some of the colonies might be small enough they'd be folded into others. There's also historical merit, as those colonial legislatures played an important role in major historical events both pre- and post-US independence, and those legislatures were the starting point of the divergence of the US's democratic traditions from those of Great Britain.

New Hampshire: General Court
Massachusetts: General Court
Rhode Island: General Assembly
Connecticut: General Corte (1636-39), General Court (1639-62), General Assembly (1662-present)
New York: General Assembly (pre-US War of Independence), Provincial Congress (1775-77), Legislature (1777-present)
New Jersey: Legislature (1702-77), Provincial Congress (1775-77), Legislature (1777-present)
Pennsylvania: General Assembly
Delaware: General Assembly
Maryland: General Assembly
Virginia: General Assembly
North Carolina: General Assembly (1665-1774), Provincial Congress (1774-77), General Assembly (1777-present)
South Carolina: General Assembly
Georgia: General Assembly (1777-present, Georgia was unique amongst the 13 Colonies in that it had no colonial legislature prior to independence, initially run by a board of trustees and later a royal governor)

Based on this, "General Assembly" should also probably be the default name for the parliaments of any additional colonies founded by the UK or other countries sharing its culture.
 
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-5% to +10% at a census. Giving a average expectation of just under +2%?
To recover from a loss you afterall need +1/4. 100 -20% = 80. Needs +25% to become 100 again.

Math may need further development.
 
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Interesting that now "No Parliament" is an option now. When they first mentioned Parliaments I am pretty certain they said they'd be a thing for every country, but I suppose it makes sense(especially now that "Parliament" is a physical location as well) that there would be some countries without one, like China. Though I think it could have worked honestly, even the Emperor must consider the opinions of the officials, generals etc. Just would have had the ability to say "lol no". Same with most countries I imagine, like I said I think "Every country has a parliament" as it was originally could have worked but this decision is probably better.


It should be extremely easy to mod in a type of council parliament in which since the start of the game, you can use that absolutist mechanic that allows you to force issues through parliament without approval for a cost that you can determine (estates opinion, general satisfaction, stability, etc). It might even be in the game for all we know. I guess well have to wait for the Tinto Flavour talks
 
Before we end though, we would like to hear of any flavor names you would like to see for parliaments, we have about 35 at the moment...
I don't know if you already got it, but I suggest "Curiae generales" or "Colloquia generalia" for Sicily, and "Sedili", "Seggi" or "Piazze" for Naples.

The two I suggest for Sicily are the names given to the Sicilian assemblies from the 12th to the 15th century, while the one I suggest for Naples was not quite a parliament, but really an assembly that only applied to the city of Naples itself and not the entire kingdom, existing from the 13th to the 19th century.

Then again, you could also simply call both of them "Parlamento", but I feel like that's a broader term and it would be cool to see a bit of flavor.
 
Will there be consideration for the pitfalls of parliaments in eu4? For example, some of the horse trading in eu4 became super tedious by needing an ever increasing number of bribes. It looks like this is probably different, but I just don't want empires to become a wolf nightmare like they did before batch bribes became a thing in eu4.
 
I am wondering if Yuan and Ming will have anything different from western parliment, since even Yuan and Ming have different systems of court with each other, but it is still a big different compared to wester courts. I guess we can generally call the Chinese Court: "朝廷" (Chao Ting) which is commonly used to refer the court of the Emperor.
 
@SaintDaveUK Here some more specific Italian ones:
The Northern and central Italian communes/city-states(republics) should have the Consiglio Comunale(literally the municipal council) while the italian Signorie/Lordships(monarchies) should generally have the Senato(literally the Senate), Florence the Priorato, Venice the Consiglio dei Pregadi, Pisa the Consiglio degli Anziani(literally Council of the Elders), Milan and Tuscany should have the Senato(mainly because historically they were monarchies), Genoa the Consiglio della Repubblica(literally the council of the republic) and the Corona de Logu(literally Crown of the realm) for Arborea and finally Savoy/Sardinia-Piedmont/Italy/Sicily/Naples/Two Sicilies/and the rest of the tags should have the Parlamento
I was going to post about Corona de Logu so here's me thanking you instead. :)
 
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Code:
Cortes
Corts
Veche
Althing
Tynwald
Riksdag
Sejm
Uijeongbu
Senate
Congress
Meclis
Estates General
Rogati
Reichstag
Duma
Staten-Generaal
Tagsatzung
Hluttaw
Parlamento
Jatiya Sangsad
Tshogdu
Sansad
Majlis
Oireachtas
Council
Landtag
Folketing
Storting
Althing
Seimas
Mejlis
Sabor
Országgyülés
Kurultai
Upstalboom
I'd like to suggest "Stadtrat" vor German City states. Always found it weird in EU4 to have a "Landtag" as a city state.
 
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Code:
Cortes
Corts
Veche
Althing
Tynwald
Riksdag
Sejm
Uijeongbu
Senate
Congress
Meclis
Estates General
Rogati
Reichstag
Duma
Staten-Generaal
Tagsatzung
Hluttaw
Parlamento
Jatiya Sangsad
Tshogdu
Sansad
Majlis
Oireachtas
Council
Landtag
Folketing
Storting
Althing
Seimas
Mejlis
Sabor
Országgyülés
Kurultai
Upstalboom
Gbara for Mandinka culture (Mali Empire)
 
Would there be any possibility of these factions or estates eventually growing or forming into political parties? I mean the Kingdom of Great Britain had political parties as early as the 1660's with the Whigs and Tories. I think it would be interesting to have these be represented in some kind of voting system and especially since you have potential US players who want to have something interesting as the the classes of people were represented by parties with the Federalists being made up of Merchants and businessment and the Democratic-Republicans being made up of farmers, landowners etc. etc.
 
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I think census should improve taxation and control instead of improving birthrate, this is whole point of censuses to keep track of how many people you can tax.

View attachment 1229365
That's my take on it too. You didn't know how many people you had, now you know, the population doesn't grow quicker, but you gain control and tax increase with the information you have.
Depending on maximum number of issues you can have during one parliament session, the increase should be limited to 10 years.
Once you conduct a census, you get something like 10% tax increase and 0.01 control growth per month for 10 years, or 10% tax increase wich gets reduced by 1 for each year, and control growth of 0.1 wich gets reduced by 0.01 each year.
 
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How is this going to play out for places like China? I noticed in your previously posted list of names for Parliaments, they don't have a specific name associated with anything east of Europe, so it would be a bit jarring for your Yuan Emperor to suddenly call 'Parliament' for debate.

I don't have any ideas on what they could call it btw.
 
Not in this game.

Bicameral governments with an Upper House is a more of Vicky thing.
Despite that, the English Parliament would become bicameral only a couple years after the start of this new game with the cementing of the House of Commons. Even if they are limited in scope (England, Ireland, and former British colonies), they existed in a clear and distinct manner that more than justifies their being included, especially as this game focuses on the crucial period in which parliamental governance was forming and later cemented itself in the British legal tradition. So on this matter it is clearly not just a Vicky thing. It's a Late Medieval/Early Modern thing as well.
 
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Can any form of Parliament elect new head of state?
In republics but also in some holy orders and some monarchies (Poland in later centuries) the parliaments elected the head of state (or had some say in the election).
Perhaps a Debate about who will be the next monarch?
 
I don't understand, in assemblies the clergy can't have agendas? They were important when the first parliaments appeared
 
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