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Tinto Talks #48- 29th of January 2025

Welcome to another Tinto Talks, The Happy Wednesday where we give out some information about our entirely top secret game Project Caesar, and get great feedback!

This week we will talk about how Unions and Regencies work in Project Caesar.

Unions
A union is a type of treaty that happens when two or more countries happen to have the same ruler, or when their rulers have a royal marriage. This functions like a defensive alliance in that they will come to each other's help automatically if they are attacked, but laws can be added to them to change how the union works.

In some previous GSGs we have done, a union was a type of subject, but here they start as a common pact in the form of an International Organization, where both partners (or more), at first all start at the same level.

A newly generated union only has the assured defense policy setup, and if you wish to keep the union stable and long-lasting you need to increase the Union Integration Level by getting more and more centralizing policies.

The Union Integration Level describes how centralized the Union is through laws and policies. Every member who is present when a centralizing policy is implemented gets its level increased. With the final centralization policy, all junior partners that have the same level as the union get unified by the Senior Partner. Members who join the Union later need to catch up on their progress to be integrated via the parliament.

muscowite_union.png

The Muscovite Union at the start of the game with the opinion, estates, stability, legitimacy and Integration Level of each member on display. At the top, you can see the Union-wide Integration Level which is basically a counter for all the centralizing policies implemented.


Union Parliament
In order to implement the laws for newcomers, you will have to use the Union Parliament which represents an assembly of the Union that calls in the ruling class estates of all members who have the already established laws not implemented yet.

Calling the parliament in the union works similar to how you call it at the country level. However, the parliament issue is fixed for it, differently to a regular country Parliament. To pass the Parliament Issue, you need to reach a minimum of 50% Parliament Support. And to get support for it, you have to bribe one of the three ruling estates of any of the countries in the Union. How much support they give depends on their Great Power Score compared to the total of all the member states that are called in the Parliament. In other words: in a union that has both France and Normandy in it, bribing France’s estates has a significantly higher impact on the result of the Parliament than bribing Normandy’s estates.

quadruple.png

Here we have the Parliament of the Hungarian Union with Croatia which already has 2 centralizing policies implemented and now has Serbia and Bosnia as newcomers in the Union, with an Integration Level for each of them of 0. The members are sorted by the potential Parliament Support.

There are three potential bribes available for each member, one per estate. Once selected, you have the choice of one of several Parliament Agendas for that estate:

agenda.png


Right now, the Bribe Effect is set to reduce the Legitimacy of your country and transfer gold to the target estate, and the cost scales with the Integration Levels the member state is behind compared to the whole IO and their Great Power Score compared to the Senior Partner. There are plans to diversify the bribes though, so each agenda has a more unique cost attached to it.

Once a member’s estate is bribed, the country vanishes from the list for that Parliament.

Union Laws
Let's dive into the different laws that a Union can have. Laws in the PU are separated into two categories: Centralizing Policies and Generic Policies. Starting with the latter, smaller category, every Personal Union has the Assured Defense policy when created, which gives the union its defensive character.

It is possible to replace it with its two alternatives if you wish to have your partners not be involved in your defensive wars. These options are however not very popular amongst the AI.

offense.png

The offensive counterpart has only one policy though which allows you to call union partners into offensive wars as if they were allies:


The final Generic Policy is the one about the Union Contribution. As you have noticed, the aforementioned policies mention that the Union needs a certain amount of Gold. With the Union Contribution policy, a treasury in the Union will be established where each member has to pay in.

union_contribution.png

The numbers of the actual payments are still subject to change.

The Gold in the Union Treasury is right now used to enact policies in the Union or to call in the Parliament.

Moving on to the Centralization Policies, the first and probably most important one is the policy of establishing a de facto Senior Partner of the Union.

The Senior Partner is the de facto leader of the Personal Union, so the Parliament is called by it, and it’s also the member that can propose Centralizing Policies. The AI member with the highest Great Power Score will try to enact this policy.

The remaining policies revolve around standardizing the Succession Law, the Government Reforms and Laws, the Estate Privileges, the Cultures and Languages of the members after the Senior Partner ones.

Finally, there is the Unification of Crowns policy which finalizes the centralization, and lets the Senior Partner annex every Junior Partner who has the same Integration Level as the Union itself.


Regencies

A Regency occurs while a government has no legitimate ruler, and is instead led by a regent. Usually, it is caused when the heir selection produces no valid heir, or when the heir is a mere child. In a Monarchy, the consort may become the regent, but otherwise, it is a character associated with the most powerful estate, or even the overlord. The Regency persists until a proper ruler is restored.

The type of regency you get depends on several different factors, but the game goes in the order listed below and picks the first valid one for a monarchy.

Nobles Regency
If the Nobles Estate has more than 33% of the Power, a character from the nobles estate will be assigned as the regent. This will make the nobles happier, but make other estates less happy.

Clergy Regency
If the Clergy Estate has more than 33% of the Power, a character from the clergy estate will be assigned as the regent. This will make the clergy happier, but make other estates less happy.

Burghers Regency
If the Burgher Estate has more than 33% of the Power, a character from the burghers estate will be assigned as the regent. This will make the burghers happier, but make other estates less happy.

Peasants Regency
If the Peasants Estate has more than 33% of the Power, a character from the peasants estate will be assigned as the regent. This will make the peasants happier, but make other estates less happy.

Overlord Regency
When a country is a subject and has no ruler, the overlord 's ruler may instead rule it as a regent. The subject will of course get a loyalty boost as long as the overlords ruler is controlling it.

Consort Regency
When the ruler of a Monarchy dies while the heir is still a child, the consort may rule the country instead as a regent. This makes the stability go up a bit during the regency.

Subject Regency
When a country is an overlord and has no ruler, a powerful subject's ruler may instead rule it as a regent. All subjects will be slightly less loyal though.

Interregnum
This regency happens when a country has no ruler, a temporary provisional administration will lead it until an official ruler gets appointed, which can be quick or take a long time.

Election Administration
When a Republic has no ruler, a temporary one is assigned to rule it as regent until an official election can be held.

We also have unique regencies like Judicial Conclave, Mamluk Succession, Papal Conclave, Fratricide Succession, which we will go into in more detail in the relevant Tinto Flavour Talks.

Extend Regency
If you feel that your heir is just too incompetent, and your current regent is really great, you can extend the regency by 5 more years for a mere cost of 20 legitimacy.

There is always the chance though that a regent has had enough, and attempts to seize power.

extend_regency.png


Next week we will talk a little bit about diseases…
 
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Yes! Last week I had a not-so-fun situation, because when playtesting as Hungary, my lesser partner Croatia decided to ally with Serbia, which was my rival and a country that I wanted to attack.
Is there any reference of this from history from any PU - apart from cases where junior partner declared independence? For me it seems too strange that junior partner, which is ruled by a ruler (the same person of senior partner) would be allowed to ally with anybody - I think that would be treated as betrayal of that ruler.
 
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Is there any reference of this from history from any PU - apart from cases where junior partner declared independence? For me it seems too strange that junior partner, which is ruled by a ruler (the same person of senior partner) would be allowed to ally with anybody - I think that would be treated as betrayal of that ruler.

Yea, allying with rival should be disabled by default except if the liberty desire is %100 lol
 
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Welcome to another Tinto Talks, The Happy Wednesday where we give out some information about our entirely top secret game Project Caesar, and get great feedback!

This week we will talk about how Unions and Regencies work in Project Caesar.

Unions
A union is a type of treaty that happens when two or more countries happen to have the same ruler, or when their rulers have a royal marriage. This functions like a defensive alliance in that they will come to each other's help automatically if they are attacked, but laws can be added to them to change how the union works.

In some previous GSGs we have done, a union was a type of subject, but here they start as a common pact in the form of an International Organization, where both partners (or more), at first all start at the same level.

A newly generated union only has the assured defense policy setup, and if you wish to keep the union stable and long-lasting you need to increase the Union Integration Level by getting more and more centralizing policies.

The Union Integration Level describes how centralized the Union is through laws and policies. Every member who is present when a centralizing policy is implemented gets its level increased. With the final centralization policy, all junior partners that have the same level as the union get unified by the Senior Partner. Members who join the Union later need to catch up on their progress to be integrated via the parliament.



View attachment 1248720
Here we have the Parliament of the Hungarian Union with Croatia which already has 2 centralizing policies implemented and now has Serbia and Bosnia as newcomers in the Union, with an Integration Level for each of them of 0. The members are sorted by the potential Parliament Support.
Your estate names for Serbia and Bosnia are odd. We don't use ě or è or ť, just e and t (the only "weird" letters we have are č, ć, ž and š)

Also while Vlastela is good (and was suggested here), the other two are poor fits. "Meštanstvo" is not a South Slavic word - we use Građanstvo, or Građani, with the guilds and other skilled workers having their own estate as Zanatlije, as they were more common. From the Serbian wiki:
"Грађани су били становници приморских градова који нису имали непосредан однос са српском државом, али су градови у којима су они боравили били део средњовековне Србије. Они су имали посебан статус и поседовали су земљу у градском метоху под другачијим правним режимом.

Сеоски мајстори (занатлије) припадају зависном становништву. Њихове обавезе у пољопривреди су биле умањене, али су имали велики број спрецифичних обавеза и дажбина које су уско везане за њихов занат. Газдинства у средњовековној Србији су била ограниченог радијуса кретања са неким неразвијеним насењима тако да је занат је био јако цењен и развијен, нарочито по селима. Српске средњовековне занатлије су обрађивале метал, земљу, дрво, кожу, камен, текстил и многе други материјале. Обрађивачи метала, ковачи и златари, су се сматрали неком врстом занатске елите.."

Translated:"Грађани су били становници приморских градова који нису имали непосредан однос са српском државом, али су градови у којима су они боравили били део средњовековне Србије. Они су имали посебан статус и поседовали су земљу у градском метоху под другачијим правним режимом.

Сеоски мајстори (занатлије) припадају зависном становништву. Њихове обавезе у пољопривреди су биле умањене, али су имали велики број спрецифичних обавеза и дажбина које су уско везане за њихов занат. Газдинства у средњовековној Србији су била ограниченог радијуса кретања са неким неразвијеним насењима тако да је занат је био јако цењен и развијен, нарочито по селима. Српске средњовековне занатлије су обрађивале метал, земљу, дрво, кожу, камен, текстил и многе други материјале. Обрађивачи метала, ковачи и златари, су се сматрали неком врстом занатске елите

.""Грађани су били становници приморских градова који нису имали непосредан однос са српском државом, али су градови у којима су они боравили били део средњовековне Србије. Они су имали посебан статус и поседовали су земљу у градском метоху под другачијим правним режимом.

Сеоски мајстори (занатлије) припадају зависном становништву. Њихове обавезе у пољопривреди су биле умањене, али су имали велики број спрецифичних обавеза и дажбина које су уско везане за њихов занат. Газдинства у средњовековној Србији су била ограниченог радијуса кретања са неким неразвијеним насењима тако да је занат је био јако цењен и развијен, нарочито по селима. Српске средњовековне занатлије су обрађивале метал, земљу, дрво, кожу, камен, текстил и многе други материјале. Обрађивачи метала, ковачи и златари, су се сматрали неком врстом занатске елите. "

"Citizens were residents of coastal cities that did not have a direct relationship with the Serbian state, but the cities in which they resided were part of medieval Serbia. They had a special status and owned land in the city's metochion under a different legal regime.

Village craftsmen (artisans) belonged to the dependent population. Their obligations in agriculture were reduced, but they had a large number of specific obligations and duties that were closely related to their craft. Farms in medieval Serbia had a limited radius of movement with some undeveloped settlements, so craft was highly valued and developed, especially in villages. Serbian medieval craftsmen processed metal, earth, wood, leather, stone, textiles and many other materials. Metalworkers, blacksmiths and goldsmiths, were considered a kind of artisan elite."

Similarly, while kler is an actual word, it's a rare-ish word almost exclusively used for catholic priesthood, not local Orthodox or Bosnian priests. We usually just say Crkva (The Church) for the institution, and Sveštenstvo for the Clergy estate itself.

I don't see them here, but the Peasants should be called Sebri or Kmetovi (Sebri is more accurate as it also includes free peasant, while kmetovi is generally used for serfs - but it is a more "iconic" word).

Similarly, if they exist (and they should, Serbia had some limited slavery while Montegrin tribes were basically tribal), Slaves should be called Roblje, and Tribes should be called Plemena.

TL;DR: Rename the Burghers estate to Građanstvo and the Clergy to Sveštenstvo for Serbia.

The Peasants should be called Sebri or Kmetovi, the Slaves should be called Roblje, and Tribes should be called Plemena.
 
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Is there any reference of this from history from any PU - apart from cases where junior partner declared independence? For me it seems too strange that junior partner, which is ruled by a ruler (the same person of senior partner) would be allowed to ally with anybody - I think that would be treated as betrayal of that ruler.
If you accept that the treaty of Windsor and the Anglo-Portuguese alliance is indeed "the oldest alliance still in effect", then technically England and Portugal were allied while England and the Iberian Union were at war.
 
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Is there any reference of this from history from any PU - apart from cases where junior partner declared independence? For me it seems too strange that junior partner, which is ruled by a ruler (the same person of senior partner) would be allowed to ally with anybody - I think that would be treated as betrayal of that ruler.
The situation Pavia is describing is decently historical - Croatian nobles, most notably the Šubić family which often governed it, would ally with Serbian and Bosnian rulers to fight against the Hungarian crown. And of course, much later, they had the Zrinjski-Frankopan conspiracy against the Habsburgs which even allied with the Ottomans!
 
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How much power will regents have? If we end up a regent of one of our vassals for a while, can we siphon their treasury? Can we change anything that may give us an advantage as their overlord, even after regency is over? This would come in handy in certain situations, like an unruly vassal that is seeking independence, or a stubborn vassal that does not want to convert to our religion.
 
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When a unification occurs, will the player get the option to continue playing as the resulting tag even if he is the lesser member of the union? Like when you lose to a revolt and get to choose between accepting your loss or moving on with the resulting nation.
 
If say Austria and Poland are in a union led by Poland, and then Bohemia also falls into the union, will it always be Poland who is the senior partner or culd it be Bohemia instead? What if Bohemia leads a union with Croatia while Poland leads a union with Austria and they then fall in union with each other? Who would become the senior partner?
 
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Also, I am unsure if Serbia will even get "Dusan's coronation" event, as they said that they plan to have only 2 empires in the start of the game (HRE and ERE). I am unsure if Serbia will get Empire rank at all.
Look, Team Tinto's inability to realize that their arbitrary "rank" system is ahistorical and frankly stupid is entirely on them.

I, for one, will at a minimum have as a mod the idea of the elevation of the Kingdom of Serbia to that of Empire.
 
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Is it possible for nations to break off from unions because of differing succession laws for each country?

For instance, if France and England are in a union, the king has an older daughter and a younger son, and upon his death English vs French succession laws make the daughter Queen of England and the son King of France.
 
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I actually prefer it this way, no senior member no parliament tab. And this hopefully means that special tabs will be available for features that only some countries have, and not everybody needs to see it.
Hmm... as a Junior member can I look at the parliament tab? maybe that is the difference. Otherwise I would think that not having a senior member is a very small time period over the length of the PU to have a difference UI for it.
 
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Slightly off-topic, Johan posted this TT, but did not reply to any comment if I'm not mistaken. Also the last Johan's Saturday building was missed without any comment. Is all fine with him or at least with positive tendency to be OK soon?
 
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There are three potential bribes available for each member, one per estate. Once selected, you have the choice of one of several Parliament Agendas for that estate:
I realize the nomenclature is coming from the parliaments TT (where it isn't called a bribe)
agenda.png
  • I understand splitting it up between Junior member effects and senior member effect but don't agree with the nomenclature. Are we offering the bribe and the Vlastela is accepting? If they don't accept do we still take the hit? Or is it us accepting their agenda?
  • "The Vlastela in Serbia gain X" should be in the section showing what Serbia gets
  • Might be harder to balance but I think the cash portion should also depend on the agenda. (And maybe one is just the cash)
  • Is "Reduced Levy Obligation for Nobility" a thing or just a variable hiding some values? If it is the later just put the value/list here to reduce the need to mouse over it.
  • Just in case you didn't know what Serbia was there are 11 chances for a mouse-over with a bonus two for "Kingdom of Serbia" so you can check that they are the same thing
  • Generally while "we lose", "<a thing> loses". (Serbia loses -5.00)
  • Also a nitpick but I don't like the lose along with a negative number. You should lose 5 or gain -5.
 
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Yea, allying with rival should be disabled by default except if the liberty desire is %100 lol
Agreed. It's an artifact of Tintos split reasonings over how powerful or interactive characters should be. It's especially odd with states in medieval Europe where "the State" is the collective allegiances nobles and cities etc. have to the King, to have something like this happen. Who is Bosnia allying with here? The estates? But the estates are separate from the nation, and often are cooperating and conflicting with it. Obviously it can't be "The Crown" estate(another oddity in PUs, especially over other monarchies rather than republics; what does it represent if not the personal properties and people loyal to the monarch? How is this separately controlled across multiple union members?) Since why would the Monarch individually ally one of his titles to a rival. Especially as said in an era and space where diplomacy was often personal. Unless we just assume that the AI plays by different rules, it doesn't quite make sense.
 
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Slightly off-topic, Johan posted this TT, but did not reply to any comment if I'm not mistaken. Also the last Johan's Saturday building was missed without any comment. Is all fine with him or at least with positive tendency to be OK soon?
You are mistaken. He replied 3 times, posts #118, #120 and #123 are his, and at the time of my reply, he was also looking at this very thread 24 minutes ago. There's always the obscure possibility that Johan is indeed three raccoons propping up a trench coat of course, but unless that is the case, I'd wager that he is fine, he just has better things to do than feeding our parasocial egos and other body parts.
 
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Why is it that the legitimacy is similar in all the countries of the quadruple union ? Is it WIP or is it a design choice ? I would think that, for example, the ruler of the quadruple union would be considered more legitimous in Hungary than in Serbia considering the fact that he's catholic and Serbia is orthodox. Similaly, would culture/language or other factors influence the legitimacy of a ruler ?
 
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