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Tinto Talks #48- 29th of January 2025

Welcome to another Tinto Talks, The Happy Wednesday where we give out some information about our entirely top secret game Project Caesar, and get great feedback!

This week we will talk about how Unions and Regencies work in Project Caesar.

Unions
A union is a type of treaty that happens when two or more countries happen to have the same ruler, or when their rulers have a royal marriage. This functions like a defensive alliance in that they will come to each other's help automatically if they are attacked, but laws can be added to them to change how the union works.

In some previous GSGs we have done, a union was a type of subject, but here they start as a common pact in the form of an International Organization, where both partners (or more), at first all start at the same level.

A newly generated union only has the assured defense policy setup, and if you wish to keep the union stable and long-lasting you need to increase the Union Integration Level by getting more and more centralizing policies.

The Union Integration Level describes how centralized the Union is through laws and policies. Every member who is present when a centralizing policy is implemented gets its level increased. With the final centralization policy, all junior partners that have the same level as the union get unified by the Senior Partner. Members who join the Union later need to catch up on their progress to be integrated via the parliament.

muscowite_union.png

The Muscovite Union at the start of the game with the opinion, estates, stability, legitimacy and Integration Level of each member on display. At the top, you can see the Union-wide Integration Level which is basically a counter for all the centralizing policies implemented.


Union Parliament
In order to implement the laws for newcomers, you will have to use the Union Parliament which represents an assembly of the Union that calls in the ruling class estates of all members who have the already established laws not implemented yet.

Calling the parliament in the union works similar to how you call it at the country level. However, the parliament issue is fixed for it, differently to a regular country Parliament. To pass the Parliament Issue, you need to reach a minimum of 50% Parliament Support. And to get support for it, you have to bribe one of the three ruling estates of any of the countries in the Union. How much support they give depends on their Great Power Score compared to the total of all the member states that are called in the Parliament. In other words: in a union that has both France and Normandy in it, bribing France’s estates has a significantly higher impact on the result of the Parliament than bribing Normandy’s estates.

quadruple.png

Here we have the Parliament of the Hungarian Union with Croatia which already has 2 centralizing policies implemented and now has Serbia and Bosnia as newcomers in the Union, with an Integration Level for each of them of 0. The members are sorted by the potential Parliament Support.

There are three potential bribes available for each member, one per estate. Once selected, you have the choice of one of several Parliament Agendas for that estate:

agenda.png


Right now, the Bribe Effect is set to reduce the Legitimacy of your country and transfer gold to the target estate, and the cost scales with the Integration Levels the member state is behind compared to the whole IO and their Great Power Score compared to the Senior Partner. There are plans to diversify the bribes though, so each agenda has a more unique cost attached to it.

Once a member’s estate is bribed, the country vanishes from the list for that Parliament.

Union Laws
Let's dive into the different laws that a Union can have. Laws in the PU are separated into two categories: Centralizing Policies and Generic Policies. Starting with the latter, smaller category, every Personal Union has the Assured Defense policy when created, which gives the union its defensive character.

It is possible to replace it with its two alternatives if you wish to have your partners not be involved in your defensive wars. These options are however not very popular amongst the AI.

offense.png

The offensive counterpart has only one policy though which allows you to call union partners into offensive wars as if they were allies:


The final Generic Policy is the one about the Union Contribution. As you have noticed, the aforementioned policies mention that the Union needs a certain amount of Gold. With the Union Contribution policy, a treasury in the Union will be established where each member has to pay in.

union_contribution.png

The numbers of the actual payments are still subject to change.

The Gold in the Union Treasury is right now used to enact policies in the Union or to call in the Parliament.

Moving on to the Centralization Policies, the first and probably most important one is the policy of establishing a de facto Senior Partner of the Union.

The Senior Partner is the de facto leader of the Personal Union, so the Parliament is called by it, and it’s also the member that can propose Centralizing Policies. The AI member with the highest Great Power Score will try to enact this policy.

The remaining policies revolve around standardizing the Succession Law, the Government Reforms and Laws, the Estate Privileges, the Cultures and Languages of the members after the Senior Partner ones.

Finally, there is the Unification of Crowns policy which finalizes the centralization, and lets the Senior Partner annex every Junior Partner who has the same Integration Level as the Union itself.


Regencies

A Regency occurs while a government has no legitimate ruler, and is instead led by a regent. Usually, it is caused when the heir selection produces no valid heir, or when the heir is a mere child. In a Monarchy, the consort may become the regent, but otherwise, it is a character associated with the most powerful estate, or even the overlord. The Regency persists until a proper ruler is restored.

The type of regency you get depends on several different factors, but the game goes in the order listed below and picks the first valid one for a monarchy.

Nobles Regency
If the Nobles Estate has more than 33% of the Power, a character from the nobles estate will be assigned as the regent. This will make the nobles happier, but make other estates less happy.

Clergy Regency
If the Clergy Estate has more than 33% of the Power, a character from the clergy estate will be assigned as the regent. This will make the clergy happier, but make other estates less happy.

Burghers Regency
If the Burgher Estate has more than 33% of the Power, a character from the burghers estate will be assigned as the regent. This will make the burghers happier, but make other estates less happy.

Peasants Regency
If the Peasants Estate has more than 33% of the Power, a character from the peasants estate will be assigned as the regent. This will make the peasants happier, but make other estates less happy.

Overlord Regency
When a country is a subject and has no ruler, the overlord 's ruler may instead rule it as a regent. The subject will of course get a loyalty boost as long as the overlords ruler is controlling it.

Consort Regency
When the ruler of a Monarchy dies while the heir is still a child, the consort may rule the country instead as a regent. This makes the stability go up a bit during the regency.

Subject Regency
When a country is an overlord and has no ruler, a powerful subject's ruler may instead rule it as a regent. All subjects will be slightly less loyal though.

Interregnum
This regency happens when a country has no ruler, a temporary provisional administration will lead it until an official ruler gets appointed, which can be quick or take a long time.

Election Administration
When a Republic has no ruler, a temporary one is assigned to rule it as regent until an official election can be held.

We also have unique regencies like Judicial Conclave, Mamluk Succession, Papal Conclave, Fratricide Succession, which we will go into in more detail in the relevant Tinto Flavour Talks.

Extend Regency
If you feel that your heir is just too incompetent, and your current regent is really great, you can extend the regency by 5 more years for a mere cost of 20 legitimacy.

There is always the chance though that a regent has had enough, and attempts to seize power.

extend_regency.png


Next week we will talk a little bit about diseases…
 
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I hope that paradox will this time put aggressive expansion in the event of a union because it is absurd to be able to absorb countries in a chain as Euriche does for example in Europa 4 without any consequences, the fact of no longer having a tree is already a good thing.
I always hated seeing countries absorb 4 others into the game without any coalition or instability in the vassal countries and I hate the principle of inheriting a country and immediately going to war against another without however, no phase of negotiation like this took place in reality (succession of Burgundy under Louis XI or of Spain under Louis XIV).
 
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I hope that paradox will this time put aggressive expansion in the event of a union because it is absurd to be able to absorb countries in a chain as Euriche does for example in Europa 4 without any consequences, the fact of no longer having a tree is already a good thing.
I always hated seeing countries absorb 4 others into the game without any coalition or instability in the vassal countries and I hate the principle of inheriting a country and immediately going to war against another without however, no phase of negotiation like this took place in reality (succession of Burgundy under Louis XI or of Spain under Louis XIV).
Not even necessarily AE, but just some mechanism to indicate "hey maybe this growing country is a bit of a concern". AE is just too simplistic a model, frankly.
 
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Love all questions in your post, and I definitively DO share them, but the senior partner is decided by the first tag to pass a law that establish them as the major partner. It'd seem this law requires a vote from the different member of the PU though. Only then is the parliement established.
Ah, you are right, my bad. Though on second thought, the order of selecting senior partner and the union parliament wasn't relevant to my question there and only muddled things up.

The important thing is that (at least by the sound of it), the union forms first and senior partner is selected only at a later time after one of the countries proposes seniority (unlike EU4 where both things happen instantaneously). Yet in case where one PU forms a union with another set of countries already in their own PU, given that a country can't be in multiple PU IOs at once, one of the IOs in this case logically does get absorbed into the other instantaneously at the time of the formation of this double PU.

Yet, given how prior to this the two preceding PUs most likely had their own senior partner, it follows that the process of selecting the new senior partner will be triggered following the normal rules since both of the former partners can't be simultaneously a senior partner of the double PU. So, presumably, the new senior partner is also selected only some time after it forms.

Now, the simplest solution to this conundrum from design perspective that I can think of is that the question of which IO absorbs which is determined by whose death triggers the formation of the double PU. So, following of my example of a Poland-Lithuania joining with Hungary-Bohemia, if the formation of this union is triggered by the death of the ruler of Hungary-Bohemia, then Hungary-Bohemia lose their IO and join the one of Poland-Lithuania (and vice versa), and after that the normal post-PU-formation stuff like the selection of (new) senior partner happens. And if the PU forms through marriage, then I guess it would depend on which country sent the proposal.

But then that'd mean the country that lost its IO may still end up being the senior partner of the new double PU, like Hungary in the above scenario. And depending on the laws and integration levels of the preexisting PUs, it means that despite winning the seniority it receives a nerf to their IO. Which would be a rather souring experience for the player for getting an otherwise lucky PU.

The alternative is that in these cases there is an intermediary step where the countries select which IO absorbs the others' countries. In case that happens to the player that'd require a forced pause to get around the limit of one country being able to be in only one PU IO at once.

It's not like it was all that rare in history either. Just in the Polish-Hungarian neighborhood from my example we had Louis the Great of Hungary inheriting both Poland-Ruthenia and Hungary-Croatia, while Ladislaus of Varna inherited both Poland-Lithuania (albeit he was formally replaced with his brother in Lithuania halfway through his reign) and Hungary-Croatia.

Then various Habsburg examples. Frederick III had both Austria as well as Styria, Carniola and Carinthia (should count as PU as he inherited those lands from another branch of Habsburgs after Ladislaus the Posthumous had died) and Burgundy and the multiple countries in Burgundian Netherlands (through marriage, so still a PU as per the rules explained in the dev diary). Philip the Handsome had a PU between Burgundy and Burgundian Netherlands he inherited and Castile and Aragon through marriage. Charles V then got all of Philip's possessions as well as Austria (which at this point should potentially still count as a PU of Austria, Inner Austria and Outer Austria by game terms, given how following his brother's death they once again split between his sons instead of being inherited wholesale by Maximilian II).

So a clarification of how this works would be great, because it leaves room for quite a lot of jankiness and I think this scenario would also benefit from further input from the players to iron out the kinks.


Also, while we're at it, one of the examples to add to the above list should be the union between Castile and Aragon. Given the granularity in terms of both the PU mechanic and the tags (with it even being further revised in response to feedback to Tinto maps, like how Kingdom of Galicia-Volhynia present in the first iteration of the Tinto maps for Poland, Lithuania and Ruthenia was afterwards split into Volhynia and Halychia) it's weird how Iberia continues to be this unified.

Separate realms of the Crown of Aragon only stopped being a thing only in early 18th century. And while the Crown of Castile had a joint parliament for Castille, Toledo, Galicia and Leon, that happened right after Ferdinand III inherited both Castile-Toledo and Leon-Galicia. So following the game logic he either blitzed through the integration process or the joint parliament shouldn't be the deciding factor here of what counts as a PU and what counts as a fully unified country (especially since the monarchs of Castile continued calling themselves kings/queens of Castile and Leon to Isabella I, which then continued to be used way after the subsequent union with Aragon).
 
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Serbian Empire had strict hireachy and worked as an Empire, Kingship wasnt abolished but it became title of lesser co ruler and heir to the Emperor, Emperor could then give despot titles (which would be impossible to do as a king)
Serbian Empire was also recognized as such as Bulgaria, Bosnia, Venice and even by Byzantine Emperor John Paleologos in 1351.
So I dont see why Serbia wouldn't fit into Empire, it was a multicultural state where one group of people ruled over other groups of people. It had strict hireachy and even tho it existed for marely 27 years it was still an Empire recognised as such by most of their neighbors.

Also if Serbia doesnt get Empire title or not even a event around Dusan's coronation, then it would be very hard to depict creation of Serbian patriachate in 1346.
It should as other people pointed it out be essentially a "petty" empire, an empire in name only. Because that is what it was historicaly, Dušan first asked the pope to proclaim him an emperor then threw a hissy fit when the pope refused. So Dušan decided f*ck it i'm doing it anyway forcefully proclaimed the archbishop a patriarch, got crowned as emperor and that was recognised by whom? Three countries he was able to strongarm into doing it, and one that wanted the trade to keep flowing. Hungary ignored it, and it was the strongest country in the region. Autocephaly however we already had.
 
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So a clarification of how this works would be great, because it leaves room for quite a lot of jankiness and I think this scenario would also benefit from further input from the players to iron out the kinks.
Can only hope the devs will listen and we'll get some "V2 of the diary". Maybe it is indeed too based on "the Habsburg approach to PU" (which tbh I barely even know !) and not enough on other PU types.
 
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It should as other people pointed it out be essentially a "petty" empire, an empire in name only. Because that is what it was historicaly, Dušan first asked the pope to proclaim him an emperor then threw a hissy fit when the pope refused. So Dušan decided f*ck it i'm doing it anyway forcefully proclaimed the archbishop a patriarch, got crowned as emperor and that was recognised by whom? Three countries he was able to strongarm into doing it, and one that wanted the trade to keep flowing. Hungary ignored it, and it was the strongest country in the region. Autocephaly however we already had.
Tinto Team should rename "Serbia" into Rascia and make Tsardom a Tier 3 country, which would have some higher boosts as a nominal empire, and Rascia would get Pec patriachate and Tsardom via event (if Rascia takes over Greece)
 
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It should as other people pointed it out be essentially a "petty" empire, an empire in name only. Because that is what it was historicaly, Dušan first asked the pope to proclaim him an emperor then threw a hissy fit when the pope refused. So Dušan decided f*ck it i'm doing it anyway forcefully proclaimed the archbishop a patriarch, got crowned as emperor and that was recognised by whom? Three countries he was able to strongarm into doing it, and one that wanted the trade to keep flowing. Hungary ignored it, and it was the strongest country in the region. Autocephaly however we already had.
Hungary was actually strictly against it, as Serbia was a rival state to Hungary, but I still think giving some flavour around Dusan's coronation would be needed. At least make it so Serbia gets Empire so that Serbian ruler can give nobles Byzantine titles like Kesar or Despot. I know Pavia stated that there would be event about enaction of Dusan's code at least.
 
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We already have scripted pre-defined ones. Currently, it's not possible to have dynamic 'commonwealths', although it might technically be possible to create new flavour names and flags if done in a certain way... We'll think about it.
If you can't/won't have dynamic flags for such "commonwealths", I still do suggest making some pre-defined ones for any combination of Poland, Bohemia and Hungary, (plus Croatia, and bonus Austria even) as these three "greater" Kingdoms of Central Europe entered Personal Unions several times in the first two centuries of the game, in every permutation you can think of (I think the only version that didn't happen was all three having the same ruler at the same time, although it almost happened a couple times).

A true Quadruple Union of Bohemia, Poland, Hungary and Croatia would likely have a flag similar to Louis II's:
Flag_of_Louis_II_of_Hungary.svg


Or perhaps even this one:
Flag_of_Sigismund_of_Hungary.svg


I think it would be great if merging all of these countries into one came with a flavour flag and perhaps even a name.
 
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Does the Union IO cost diplomatic capacity to maintain?

If it does cost diplo capacity, will having more members in the IO spend more capacity?
If so, Will it be possible to merge two junior partners into one crown?
Ex: In case of the Hungarian Union, merging both Serbia and Bosnia.
 
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So let's say I am playing Austria and I am the senior partner in a union with Hungary. Now if Bohemia joins the union, is there a new vote who becomes senior partner? If so, is the Great Power Score of only me and Bohemia considered or is Hungary's score added to mine as I have already established a leadership over them?
 
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As this is not CK, you're playing the country, not the ruler, so not, it's not possible.
Since this is supposed to be the GRAND strategy game, not just any other gsg, i think having this would be very nice. Even if it's not always available, it would be cool if as a French Appanage, if we somehow get a PU with France, we become France
 
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Why is Bosnias flag red? and why does it even have lilies when they were added like 50 years after the start date? I hope it will be adjusted otherwise Rassims (PBUH) Pyramid laser beam will give you a hard time.
 
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I would love to see the dynamic "Rzeczpospolita Obojga/Trojga/Czworga/Pięciorga Narodów" ("Commonwealth of the Two/Three/Four/Five Nations").

I don't get it, why are there "haha" reactions and what's so funny about it?

"Commonwealth of Two Nations" is just a common name for PLC and, in my opinion, not only it sounds better than just "Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth" but leaves the room for more than just two nations there, making the name dynamically response to the number of states involved. Something that's historical and fits the new and reworked personal unions of EUV.

The name 'Commonwealth of Two Nations' (Polish: Rzeczpospolita Obojga Narodów) came into force during the reign of Stephen Báthory (since 1582, and was officially used until 1795). [...] The terms 'Commonwealth of Poland' and 'Commonwealth of Two Nations' (Polish: Rzeczpospolita Obojga Narodów, Latin: Res Publica Utriusque Nationis) were used in the Reciprocal Guarantee of Two Nations (1791). In the preamble of the Reciprocal Guarantee of Two Nations (1791) the dualistic nature of the state was confirmed and separate monarchial titles of Stanisław August Poniatowski were included: King of Poland (Polish: Krol Polski) and Grand Duke of Lithuania (Polish: Wielki xiązę litewski), also the land envoys of the Polish Crown and the Grand Duchy of Lithuania (Polish: posłow ziemskich Korony Polskiey, y Wielkiego Xięstwa Litewskiego) were mentioned. The English term Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth and German Polen–Litauen are seen as renderings of the 'Commonwealth of Two Nations' variant.

Other informal names include the 'Republic of Nobles' (Polish: Rzeczpospolita szlachecka) and the 'First Commonwealth' (Polish: I Rzeczpospolita) or 'First Polish Republic' (Polish: Pierwsza Rzeczpospolita), the latter relatively common in historiography to distinguish it from the Second Polish Republic. In Lithuania, the state is referred to as 'Republic of Both Nations' (Lithuanian: Abiejų Tautų Respublika).


It was designed to elevate the Cossacks and Ruthenians to a position equal to that of Poland and Lithuania in the Polish–Lithuanian union and in fact transforming the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth into a Polish–Lithuanian–Ruthenian Commonwealth (Polish: Rzeczpospolita Trojga Narodów, lit. 'Republic of Three Nations')

 
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I don't get it, why are there "haha" reactions and what's so funny about it?

"Commonwealth of Two Nations" is just a common name for PLC and, in my opinion, not only it sounds better than just "Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth" but leaves the room for more than just two nations there, making the name dynamically response to the number of states involved. Something that's historical and fits the new and reworked personal unions of EUV.






Well I agree with you, but use the English name and not the polish one, "Republic of X Nations"